Another Dumb Comment from Ken Venturi

[Justin_Zook]

Today while I was passively watching the Byron Nelson, Ken Venturi said something to the affect, "These bunkers are much more consistent now.  They must be consistent so that we can separate the good bunker player from the bad."  

I first of all, don't like Ken Venturi much.  I think he rambles too much, stutters, and has a tendency to state the obvious.

His comment burned me up.  It shouldn't have because it's really quite a small thing, but I thought good bunker players are good because they can successfully negotiate inconsistencies in the bunker.  

If Ken feels this way, then where would he draw the line.  Should players always be able to lift, clean, and place their ball on the fairway, not just after a rain?  Would that make consistent playing conditions that could separate the good from the bad?  His logic seems to be a little off.

[Bob_Huntley]

If Kenny ever had an original idea it would die of loneliness. How anyone so inarticulate and cliche ridden could have lasted so long on the airwaves astounds me.

[Jeff Fortson]

My favorite Ken Venturi saying (which he says all the time if you listen to a few tournaments he's an anchor for) is:

"Look Out!"

It seems he likes this simple phrase.  If a guy hits it off line Ken says, "Look Out!".  If a guy hit s a putt that might go severely off line Ken says, "Look Out!".  Basically no matter what shot you hit, if it flirts with remote danger Ken says, "Look Out!".

How brutally annoying.

Jeff F.

[cardyin3]

What you say about Ken Venturi may be true, but you should know that
Venturi has had a lifetime battle with the speech defect of stuttering and has worked very hard to ameliorate it.  For many years, he worked with Susie Darnell, who is a speech therapist and the wife of Mark Darnell, the long-time golf professional and general manager of West Lake Country Club in Augusta, Georgia.  You can criticize what he says, but please go easier on how he says it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

cardyin3,
Thank you for informing justin that KV fights a speech impediment. His overcoming of the odds to get where he is on TV rivals his 36 hole US open win in the sweltering heat of Congressional.

To KV's detractors:
We should be thankful that we have had the privilege of listening to his truly American version of the English language for so long. I would suspect his longevity at CBS has a lot to do with ratings, something none of his detractors here can match, that's for sure.
If you can't find something good to say about the man, at least to offset your criticism of his style, then you ought to take the sage's advice and not say anything at all.

[Bruceski]

Well, it's nice that someone overcame a stuttering problem. But to accept that person as a viable sports commentator for a national network is asking too much of me. For a guy who has the best job in his field, Ken Venturi is remarkably inarticulate and uninsightful. This isn't an unfair shot "below the belt". It's simply fair criticism of a person who's very job it is to be articulate and insightful.

Next thing you know we won't be able to criticize our President for not leading his country and setting appropriate public policy.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Justin, Bob, Jeff, and Bruceski,

In the brutally competitive world of Television, do you really think he's lasted so long because he's inept ?

In the medium of Television, a world of IMAGE and PRESENTATION, do you think he's remained on the screen because the viewers don't like him, don't relate to him, don't respect his playing skill, and don't see him as an effective communicator.

Do you think the advertisers, who have an awful lot to say, have been dissatisfied with him ?

After twenty or thirty years don't you think they've shown every bunker shot, every lie, every putt, every drive, every drive a million times ?  
What is there to be said, that's new, about the same thing happening a zillion times over and over for thirty years ?

I'd like your work to be scrutinized by a couple of million viewers every week to see how well you've performed over the last twenty or thirty years.  Especially to see if you've made any grammatical errors, inaccurate statements of goofs
in the performance of your work.

Leave the guy alone, he's done a good job over a long period of time.

[Bruceski]

Well, Patrick. Let's just say that others in his profession do a much better job, in my opinion (David Feherty, Johnny Miller, Peter Oosterhuis (sp?), for example). They prove to me that you can say new and interesting things with each and every new golf broadcast. And I'll take my opinion as meaning as much as those of the advertisers and CBC corporate bosses any day. I also know from years of watching TV golf that I'm not even close to alone in this opinion. Ken Venturi's "stamina" as a golf commentator doesn't mean I or anyone else have to like how he does his job.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Dan King]

Patrick Mucci writes:
In the brutally competitive world of Television, do you really think he's lasted so long because he's inept ?

Brent Musberger.

"I'm not saying I could do any better. But if the ratings are down, I understand why."
 --Paul Azinger (on TV golf commentators after spending a year watching them all)

[Gib_Papazian]

There is not much chance of raising Henry Longhurst from the grave. So, besides the dean of all commentators - with the exception of Peter Allis and perhaps Peter Oosterhouse - I would rather hear Ken Venturi fart into the microphone than endure the stream of pompous stupidity of the rest of these bozos.

In point of fact, although I only take Golf Mag (rhymes with "rag") to read David Feherty's monthly piece, the strange contradiction is that I cannot stand his silly drivel on the air. It is quite an accomplishment to make Gary McCord sound intelligent by comparison, but somehow he manages to do it.

Johnny Miller tries to be edgy, but like his golf courses, it only appeals to the kind of idiot who screams that the quarterback is a bum when he throws an interception.

I listen to his crap all the time. Sure, in his own mind he "calls a spade a spade," but I remember watching him shoot 82 on my home course in the Shell's WW of G against Nicklaus and whine later that the pins were set up to reward the fade only.

Please. Can you imagine if some player said that when Miller was in the tower?

Ken Venturi has his own patter, but it is enduring and endearing. And at Augusta, nobody is more insightful. Nobody.

This marks the second time in a month that I have disagreed with Bob Huntley, a personal record. The cell phone discussion being the first.

Actually, I liken Ken Venturi to Bob. He may not be able to shoot under-par as he once did, but Jeff Stettner gave a certain 73 year-old nine shots yesterday and promptly watched the aforementioned gentleman nearly shoot his age.

I would rather watch Bob carve up a golf course ( or Ken Venturi commentate) in the mid-70's than listen to Gary Koch shoot 72 with his clubs - and microphone.

[Lynn Shackelford]

Timely topic.  I just walked Rustic Canyon today, attempted to play at times, and much of the round was spent with myself and the other 3 players bashing poor Kenny V.  We all agreed that he is a delighful man in person, great player but offends us with the obvious.  I contend that the general public accepts him, and he is great at the cocktail parties with the advertisers and affliates.  Unfortunately, he may be missed because L. Wadkins doesn't offer a whole lot so far.
Venturi
"look out"
"hoe down"
"get down"
"he is taking the water out of play"
"if it is to the right of the hole then he has missed it"

[John_Conley]

And there, my friends, you have a prime example of why televised golf is so boring on the major U.S. networks.  All of us like golf.  So much, in fact, that we are freaks.  We'll probably watch, regardless of Ken Venturi or Fred Venturoni - a guy with my firm in a neighboring office, so I don't expect anyone to get the reference.

Ask yourself this... How bad would an announcer have to be for you NOT to watch golf when you had nothing else going in the afternoons?

For the rest, a person like Venturi can help them understand a little about what is going on.  He's been there, as the TV analysts before him had.  That is an important distinction to make.  Professional GOLFERS, who later became members of the media.  Jim Nance, Mike Tirico, and Al Michaels are not from their camp, and it really shows.  (Although Nance takes it upon himself to be as sappy as he thinks CBS wants him to be.)

As for Musberger, his career is easy to explain.  Of all the sportscasters who have ever lived, none match Brent when it comes to keeping the show going while taking direction through the bug in his ear.  He was amazing in his prime, and became ubiquitous.  His career stays afloat through familiarity.

Makes you wonder if guys like Mike Adamle and Jim Lampley were the Peter Kessler's of their era.

[George Pazin]

I've only really been watching golf a lot for the last ten years or so. Was Mr. Venturi always this way? In the 70s, 80s? I don't mind the awkward language, I would just love to hear something insightful & entertaining, besides his 4 ball match at Cypress. Surely he must have more stories like that one.

P.S. to cardyin - You've been listening to KV longer than Justin's been alive, so maybe you could cut him a little slack on not knowing about KV's stuttering problem.

[Dan King]

jim_kennedy writes:
If you can't find something good to say about the man, at least to offset your criticism of his style, then you ought to take the sage's advice and not say anything at all.

Ken Venturi is a public figure, and we have every right to criticise him. It would be giving in to political correctness to criticise him as a handicapped person trying to do his job. We should hold him to the same standards as any other announcer, discounting any handicap he started with.

When I watch golf I've gotten pretty good at tuning out any of the talking heads. Near as I can tell, there isn't a single one of them that adds anything to the pictures.

There's no reason to confuse ratings with quality. Remember, Three's Company spent a heck of a long time as the highest rated show on TV.  How many albums does Britney Spears sell?

"Hitting things with a stick is the cornerstone of civilization. Consider all the things that can be improved by hitting them with a stick: veal, the TV, Woody Allen. Having a dozen good sticks at hand, all of them well balanced and expertly made, is one of the reasons I took up golf."
 --P.J. O'Rourke (Men's Journal, 1992)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bruceski,

The guys you mentioned, combined, don't have the time on TV that Venturi has an announcer.

I don't know that Musberger is on every week.  I would tend to agree that his knowledge about golf is more than limited.

And, if you don't like Venturi, that's okay.  
Who would you recommend to describe the same shots week after week for thirty years.

If he wasn't well received by the viewers, he'd have been gone long ago.  He must have been doing something right to be announcing the same thing each week for thirty years.

Is he perfect, certainly not, but again, who would you install, and how long do you think it would take before you and the viewers became bored or critical of them, thirty years ??

Dan King,

The money is so good, why doesn't Azinger give it a try for a year or thirty ?

Did "Three's Company" or Brittany Spears last thirty years ?

Let's face it, what new spin, or insightful commentary can you create for the same old thing, week in and week out, for thirty years

Venturi must have done a lot of things right to last for thirty years in a tough, tough business.

[Gib_Papazian]

Well stated shivas. (Is it okay to refer to you by your real name? Or do you want to do the JakaB/Barnyf thing?)

As I see it, one of the problems with America is that we have so little respect for institutions. Our attention span is short and there is a constant demand for newer, edgy, younger public figures.  

Ken Venturi is an institution.

He is also a connection with the past, bringing continuity to broadcasts like the Masters. It is precisely that familiarity that makes his presence so essential to my enjoyment of watching year after year.

He is a security blanket in some ways - and one that I will miss terribly when he is gone.

[Bob_Huntley]

Gentlemen, gentlemen:

When I criticized Ken Venturi for his announcing performance, I was not dumping on him as a human being. I am well aware of his earlier problems with stuttering and his gallant fight to overcome such a handicap. I have sat down with him after a round and found him to be witty and charming, full of anecdotes. However, on the air he is a different person and  I still think that he does not add much to a telecast. A personal opinion and one which I hope does not alienate anyone here.

Who do I think does a good job? Renton Laidlaw, Peter Oosterhuis, Peter Alliss and Denis Hutchinson. They all learned at the feet of Henry Longhurst, that the picture is sometimes enough.

Gib:

In the interests of better Inter-State commerce your cell phone is okay with me.l

[Gib_Papazian]

In the interest of full disclosure, Venturi is a former member of Olympic who managed to win our club championship twice. . . . . but then again, so did Johnny Miller.

[RJ_Daley]

Put me in the Gib, Pat and Shivas camp on this one.  It isn't like I haven't had to declare my admiration and enjoyment of having KV return to the broadcasts each year as if to reaffirm the annual right of spring and renewal and return to golf each season.  (here on the frozen tundra it is an annual right of renewal and return to the season unlike you warmer climate chaps )  

There are some things that are just not explicable to me about feeling loyal and appreciative to those who have earned their way to being institutions of our passing lives.  I can listen to KV just like I can listen to a grandfather or someone of respect who is older.  And, even though it seems like I have heard those same old stories before, when I listen very close - I never fail to learn something.

[Jim_Kennedy]

BobHuntley,

If Kenny ever had an original idea it would die of loneliness. How anyone so inarticulate and cliche ridden could have lasted so long on the airwaves astounds me.

You don't consider these remarks of yours to be construed as not dumping on Venturi?? What would you have to do, drop a
ton of bricks on him before being assessed a tipping fee??

When you wrote the following in a later post you at least seemed to be offering a more objective criticism of his performance:
  
"I have sat down with him after a round and found him to be witty and charming, full of anecdotes. However, on the air he is a different person and  I still think that he does not add much to a telecast. A personal opinion and one which I hope does not alienate anyone here."- Bob Huntley

Which of your statements do you think sounds less personal?


Dan King,
KV's impediment should not make him immune from criticism as a broadcaster. It should not be forgotten when measuring how far he has gone. Objective criticism rings more true than the swipes taken at him.

redanman,
You say he's all there has been on CBS and that's why we like him? Do you think he has held CBS hostage over the years? If there were someone that could do the job better and be more liked by viewers and respected by players than I think CBS would have been all over that commodity, don't you?  

[Justin_Zook]

I am sure Ken is a nice man.  I did not know about his former stuttering problem and am sorry if I offended anyone.  I am not that harsh to exploit someone else's handicap.  However, I do expect a degree of quality from commentators.  For me, Ken doesn't meet that level.  

Don't take this personally, you who are sympathetic towards him and all that he has overcome.  I agree, that he overcame quite a challenge, and I agree, he must be given credit for that.  But Ken Venturi, I am sure, wants to be treated like everyone else.  In fact, it think it would be disrespectful to Ken to treat him any other way,  and this includes criticism.  I am sure that he wouldn't want someone to "go easy on him" because of his handicap.  I know I wouldn't, and personally, I find criticism  refreshing because it ultimately helps me become a better person.

Anyway, the object of my thread was to discuss his ignorant, and cliché-ish views towards design and also maintenance.  I suppose I could use any commentator as an example, but I am sorry, it just happened to be Mr. Venturi.  

I am tired of analysts talking up the things that don't make the game better, like lengthening courses and making bunkers easier and more predictable to play out of.  It really pissed me off the way the commentators talked up the changes at Augusta, including Ken, Jim, and everyone else.  

Anyway, I really don't care that much about Ken.  He is the least of my worries, and actually, I don't think he even makes my "Top 500 Worry list."  I still don't think he's a good commentator, but don't think that it is personal with me.

[Jeff Fortson]

You know what would be great?

If Venturi's last words on air was a quote from another famous stutterer....

"Dee bee dee bee de bee That's All Folks!"

It would be classic.

Jeff F.

Sorry if that was tasteless.  Simply trying to make a joke.

[Brad Klein]

We're supposed to have sympathy for a TV announcer because he used to stutter? Reminds me of a short story by Kurt Vonnegut about a totally egalitarian society where, in order not to have the audience jealous of the performers on stage, the ballet dancers all were dragging 50 pound leg irons.

In Venturi's case, I suspect a large part of his informal medical treatment for his "handicap" over the years involved a certain liquid lubricant. Takes its toll, I suspect.

Today, at the end of the 4th round, as he tried to babble some nonsense about "it just goes to show that you don't have to speak American, or English, to get the ball in the hole" (or something like that, I gagged before he finished), my wife, who is a non-golfer, asked me what Ventury knew about everyone else on the network that allowed him to keep his job.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Well for those of you who don't like Mr. Venturi...he will be gone shortly.  

Like him or not the man has lasted for decades.  For any of you who have tried any type of broadcasting, you may know how difficult it is to sound intelligent, witty, and understanding for over thirty seconds.  Golf goes on forever!

I watch very little golf and no wonder when it is Madison avenue occasionally interupted by golf.  However, I will say that Maruyama and Crane added a spark to today's event that is sorely missing in golf, let alone any major sport today.  

I won't miss Venturi but then I won't kick him on the way out either.  

"The long bunker shot is the hardest shot in golf"  And Venturi has had quite a long bunker shot of a career.

[Bruceski]

I think that quote was more like "you don't have to speak American, or English, to get over the crowd" (referring to Shigeki Maruyama). I sat there and said, "I think I know what he means..." That came after the 3rd time he castigated Maruyama for his "mental errors" down the back nine. Ken, did you ever consider the possibility that a touch of nervous energy might cause Shigeki some mis-hits? Perhaps the pros can't execute perfectly 100% of the time? Especially when leading a big event on Sunday's back nine. Ken Venturi need only say 3 sentences before one is reminded of how underqualified he is for his job.