I have played Quaker and WF(W).....I found both courses much more interesting from the tee box than from the fairway. And with only some exceptions, I found many of the approaches at those courses VERY similar and dare I say it ......pretty boring. The difference at WFW is there are internal countours on most of those greens that might dictate some ball flighting in firm conditions, and many more whose back to front slope require controlling spin in any condition.
But we were discussing Bethpage Black, weren't we.
Bethpage places an "acute premium on approach shots" because of the penalty of missing greens, not because of the inability to get it hold the green, avoid a three putt, or get it close without the proper ball flight and trajectory. If you find that inspiring than we may agree to disagree and call it a matter of taste.
No green at BB has the size, movement, or playing angles to mandate any sort of shot making on approaches. A step further, I would offer.....hitting high shots of any shape to the middle of every green would yield an under par round to any the majority of tour pros with some semblance of a short game to account for the greens he misses. Additionally, on most approaches, Players would rather hit an awful shot in order to be in a wayward "greenside" bunker than in rough 15 inches off the fringe.
There are no approach shots on firm condition that hit the greens and bound away from pins because the were on the wrong angle of attack or aimed at the wrong portion of the green.
Any handicap player can see what he needs to do on every approach from the middle of the fairway......great for a daily fee facility, but not necessarily interesting or inspiring.
What you can't do is miss the fairway.
Are you really trying to argue that BB has great greens? and diverse and varied green complexes....really??
Do you think there's any coincidence that the USGA broke the stimp record in '02 to in order to add some kind of challenge to them at 14.5?
I do acknowledge a few rules on some the approaches, other than hit it high:
Unless the pin is in the botom swale (where it never is), be long on 15, at least middle or back. And if the rough is low enough you can use the hill left.
Being on the proper side of 17 will help avoid a potential 3 putt.
Don't be long on 1, 2 (that rough is juicy), 3, 12, 13, 14, 17.
Be long on 4, 10.
And "subtle" greens, like "subtle" people, don't make demands....they generally make suggestions to willing listeners, but in the end accept whatever they're given.
Okay Nick, You don't appear to be much of a Tilly fan. Having grown up on his course, I am. That out of the way, let's examine a few of the Black's greens with the assumption that they are running fast and aren't sopping wet:
1) Moderately sloped back-to-front and easy to 3 putt from back to front pin(s).
2) Flattish and boring...agreed
3) Crowned and offset, tough to get to certain pin placements. Wrong angles of attack do bounce through this one.
4) Sloped front to back and very easy to screw up if you aren't in the right place to approach. Again head on angles are tough to hold. Only from the open right side does this green yield much.
5) Slightly bowled, one of the course's two most difficult approach shots. Anything more severe would be goofy IMO. No one can see the green on this one, can they?
6) Like #2, slightly canted, but nothing too special.
7) Tucked pins here are tough to get to.
Slope dictates shot and aggressive lines.
9) Very easy to get short-sided and tough to make par if you are coming in to a right pin from the right side.
10) Long 2nd shot prevents too undulating a green. Middle of fairway doesn't leave an easy straightforward look
11) SO easy to be wrong sided here. Very easy to get kicked off the green right. The offset angle is quite deceptive.
12) Slope and cant make a front pin eminently three-puttable from the back of the green.
13) Deceptively subtle on the green right half, but not too tough.
14) New green makes three putts very, very easy if you are on wrong side of the green, away from the pin. Speed and cant are very evident.
15) C'mon, all the pros will tell you this is one really tough green to get anywhere close without an absolute laser-precise approach shot.
16) Again, this is one tough green to get to a tucked-right pin. Offset angle fool plenty.
17) Like you said
18) Boring...agreed.
Oakmont, Pinehurst Pebble and WFW all have tougher green complexes for sure, but if green speeds were to yield what the USGA wanted this week, the Black's greens wouldn't disappoint and certainly wouldn't be described as boring. They aren't dramatic, but sometimes subtlety is preferred.
