What are the "Must Play" Palmer courses?

[Richard Choi]

During one of our alcohol fueled discussions at Ballyneal, one of the subject that came up stumped most of the participants.

The question was "Are there Must Play courses designed by Arnold Palmer"? None of the folks at Ballyneal could come up with an Arnold Palmer designed courses that they have played that they would recommend.

So, let's open this discussion wider. Are there "Must Play" courses designed by Arnold Palmer? Out of the ones that you have actually played? What are they?

Additionally, Arnold Palmer Design company is one of the most successful golf course design company ever. How come there are so few top quality courses designed by them?

[Ben Sims]

Richard,

Depends on who you ask, but, The Palmer Course at La Cantera here in San Antonio is has a very good reputation.  I personally wouldn't want to go back.  I found it chintzy, unwalkable, and in fairly rough shape for a top tier daily fee..  But like I said, here in South texas, it gets great press and many regular players love it.  I believe it was in the Dallas Morning News' "Best Of" list recently.

With that said, I doubt JT could break 90 on it, so you might love it.

[Tim Bert]

Gillette Ridge -

You owe it to yourself to get there. JT wouldn't break 90.

[Jimmy Muratt]

While I haven't played it, the one course that often gets mentioned as Palmer's "best" is Old Tabby Links on Spring Island in South Carolina.  I know the setting of Spring Island is spectacular but there is supposed to be quite a bit of good stuff going on with the golf course itself as well.  

[JC Jones]

I have played 2 palmer courses and they were both terrible

These  were:

Kings Challenge - Cedar, MI
The Legend at Shanty Creek - Bellaire, MI

My memories of these courses are that they were extremely tight, included many holes that went about 250 yards and then turned 90 degrees right/left, had flat greens that were heavily and predictably guarded by bunkers and generally felt as though the routing was forced on to land meant for development. 

[Richard Choi]

JC, I don't think your experiences are all that uncommon around here.

For me, Palmer courses that I played all felt like dejavu with one template hole after another. I would like to find out whether or not my experiences are unusual or is to be expected.

[JC Jones]

For me, Palmer courses that I played all felt like dejavu with one template hole after another.

Interestingly, I have played The Legend twice and Kings Challenge once and I could maybe give you full descriptions of 2-3 holes total.  I have played Kingsley once and Crystal Downs once and I could go hole by hole with each of them.  Also, I have played The Legend more recently than KC or CD.

[John Moore II]

Mid South in Pinehurst where I used to work would likely be in the top 10 of all the courses in the Sandhills area, excluding the fully private facilities. Its a very, very good course. But I am not sure I would call it a 'must-play.'

[Michael Whitaker]

Musgrove Mill Golf Club - Clinton, SC  http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/musgrove-mill

Old Tabby Links - Spring Island, SC

[Brad Fleischer]

Rich,

You just gave me a new mission ! I knew you were going to post this so I have already started doing my research. I am determined !


Brad

[Matthew Schulte]

"Rich in a box"

Great seeing you again this past weekend.  Maybe next time I too can contribute to your winnings!

While I skipped it while in Ireland, I have heard from someone whose opinion I trust that parts of Tralee are very good.  Obviously you could argue that it is really an Ed Seay course and not a Palmer, however, isn't that likely true of most of those bearing the Palmer name anyway?

[Will MacEwen]

I have played about 20 rounds at Whistler Golf Club and while it may not be a must play, it is a very solid and enjoyable course. 

[astavrides]

The Classic Club, Aviara, Bay Creek, PGA West, and Stonewall (WV) are all pretty good, but probably none are must plays.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

My former club, Commonwealth National. in suburban Philadelphia is a demanding course from tee to green and seems to attract many low single digit handicappers as evidenced by 2 GAP team championships in recent years. It made quite a splash on the local golf scene when it made its debut in 1990 and has appeared in GD's Best in State over the years.

What about Tradition Club in La Quinta, AP's home club in the desert?

What about Tralee in Ireland?

[Adam Clayman]

I'm looking forward to going to Nebraska City next week to see Arbor Links. After reading their website apparently great care was taken environmentally.

[Mark Pritchett]

Old Tabby Links at Spring Island is a must play if you are in the low country.  Memorable par 3's, good variety of holes, excellent conditioning and a top notch staff. 

The Island Nine at Champions Retreat (Augusta, GA) is a solid group of holes with a fun short Par 4 and some very scenic holes on the river.

[PCCraig]

Wow...this one stumped me.

TPC Boston is sort of a Palmer Design, or at least his routing. His version was not very good at all, while Hanse polished it up a little bit and made it ok.

The Den at Fox Creek in Bloomington, IL is a Palmer where we used to play our State Golf Tournament. It's ok but hardly a "must play."

[Emil Weber]

That truly dependson your definition of a must-play course. For most GCAers, probably not a single Palmer course is a must-play. If you don't know anything about design and think that flowers and waterfalls are the ultimate, then courses like Aviara are heaven.

[Carl Nichols]

I had been thinking about starting a thread just like this.  A few weeks ago someone referred to the "big three" golf architects as Nicklaus, Fazio, and Palmer; in one of my many posts that people don't respond to (!), I questioned whether Palmer was really part of any such big three.  I guess by volume (rather than quality) he is?  

[Derek Dirksen]

I'm looking forward to going to Nebraska City next week to see Arbor Links. After reading their website apparently great care was taken environmentally.

Arbor Links is a great track.  You should enjoy it.  I'll try and post a couple of pics.  I have not played it in quite a while.  They have made some minor tweaks to it in the last few years.

[Lou_Duran]

Fossil Creek in north Fort Worth not far from the D/FW airport is enjoyable and a good value (at least as of 4 years ago when I played it last).

[Tony_Chapman]

Adam -- You'll enjoy Arbor Links (maybe we could catch up on your way there??). It's on a decent piece of property and they did do a bunch of environmentally good stuff there. I mean, its in the home of Arbor Day, so they had to right? 


The home hole


The par-3 11th with the 12th in the background

I'd say for Nebraska, this could be in our top-10 in the state. It's not truly a daily fee anymore, but when it was I'd have probably put it right behind Wild Horse. I think I'd certainly rather play here than, say, Quarry Oaks.

[Jason Topp]

While I would not consider it a must play - Deacon's Lodge in Minnesota is the best I have played in an incredible setting.  I found this photo tour from a Google search:

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1025451112000239304RybukPTUmo

[Tom_Doak]

Back when I wrote for GOLF Magazine, there were two or three courses which the p.r. people told me (off the record) that they were "the first really good Palmer course".  (The funny part was that they kept using that line for new courses.)

Old Tabby Links was one of those.  I thought it was pretty good, but surely not a "must play".  I've only played maybe half a dozen Palmer courses so I am not qualified to comment generally.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Tralee.
The nine holes finished at White Oak inTryon, NC.
Musgrove.