[Bill Shamleffer]

I am borrowing/stealing from Brad Klein in yesterday’s on-line Golfweek posting.
http://www.golfweek.com/protours/pga/story/klein-061409
If the USGA does hold the U.S. Open and the U.S. Women's Open on back-to-back weeks at Pinehurst, will this add fuel to those wanting to shift the U.S. Open to a 3-hole play-off?

Although last year's play-off was fantastic and is a prime example of how an 18-hole playoff can be better than the alternatives; I think most view that playoff as an exception (cf. 2001, 1997, 1991, 1988, 1984, etc.).  (Also, last year's playoff should have been followed by an additional 18 holes, not a sudden death, but I digress.)

It appears that to pull off back-to-back Opens at the same course will necessitate doing everything possible to ensure the Women's Open begins practice rounds on Monday.

Already the U.S. Open followed the Women’s and Senior Opens with the change to split tee times.  I think many have seen the removal of the 18-hole playoff in the other two USGA Opens as the preparation for the removal of the 18-hole playoff from The U.S. Open.

I have seen many of the debates per the options between sudden death vs. limited play-offs (3-4 holes) vs. 18-hole playoffs.  I think all sides have been mentioned and discussed.  However, does any one else view possible back-to-back Opens as forcing the USGA by that point in abandoning the 18-hole playoff?  If not, and if there is an 18-hole playoff on Monday of U.S. Women’s Open week, can the USGA consider allowing the men to begin at 9:00 a.m., and then allow the women to begin their practice rounds at about 11:00 a.m.?  I have no problem with a two or three man play-off being conducted with lower rough and slightly softer or slower greens.  (I assume to pull this off they would begin to cut the rough right after play concludes Sunday and would just work through the dark to prepare the rough for the Women’s Open.)

[Carl Nichols]

Bill:
Are you sure they plan to cut the rough shorter for the Women's Open?

[Bill Shamleffer]

Bill:
Are you sure they plan to cut the rough shorter for the Women's Open?

No.

I was only acknowledging that if they do plan to make any adjustments to the course, that first equipment can be equipped with proper lighting to do those changes through the night between Sunday and Monday, and two I personally would not see much of an issue of conducting a play-off on a course adjusted for differences of play between the men's game and the women's game.  A play-off seems to accentuate the player against player aspects of the game and to lessen the player against the course aspects.

They may decide to set up the course so that it can be played the same for both tournements (other than changes in tee locations so as to shorten the course for the women).  I was just thinking about if it was decided to make changes to the rough or greens between tournaments, I personally would not have an issue with seeing the play-off on that same course post adjustments for the 2nd tournament.

[John Moore II]

Yeah, you can't cut the rough a whole lot lower or else you will have 'white' roughs on the course.

I don't really see a reason that a possible playoff would be a huge ordeal. Start the playoff at 8am, players aught to be off the course by 1230 or 1. The range will be open, putting green open, and there is no reason the ladies should not be able to tee off at 11 when the guys would be on hole 11 or 12.

The bigger issue would be with tickets, but since its a one-off thing, I don't see any reason that people who have practice round badges purchased in advance should not be able to use them on Monday to see the playoff and the practice rounds. Just stop sale of Monday practice round badges at the end of the tournament on Sunday if a playoff is to happen.

A worse situation would be if the weather turns bad and they have to bleed the final round over into Monday; that would prevent the ladies from practicing on Monday at all.

I have a good feeling though that the USGA has considered these options and has a dozen contingency plans to deal with what could happen.

[Tim Leahy]

If a same day playoff is good enough for the British Open I think that the US Open should do it also. It is really for the benefit of the fans that attend and those watching on TV.

[Wade Whitehead]

I suggest: Start the playoff at 8:00 a.m.  Tell players that slow play will be penalized with no exceptions.  A twosome on an empty golf course with spotters everywhere should play in less than three hours.

The absurdity of the 18 hole playoff was spotlighted last year when the thing was decided by sudden death anyway.  The four-hole aggregate is far and away the best option in my view.

WW

[Bill Shamleffer]

Yeah, you can't cut the rough a whole lot lower or else you will have 'white' roughs on the course.

I don't really see a reason that a possible playoff would be a huge ordeal. Start the playoff at 8am, players aught to be off the course by 1230 or 1. The range will be open, putting green open, and there is no reason the ladies should not be able to tee off at 11 when the guys would be on hole 11 or 12.

The bigger issue would be with tickets, but since its a one-off thing, I don't see any reason that people who have practice round badges purchased in advance should not be able to use them on Monday to see the playoff and the practice rounds. Just stop sale of Monday practice round badges at the end of the tournament on Sunday if a playoff is to happen.

A worse situation would be if the weather turns bad and they have to bleed the final round over into Monday; that would prevent the ladies from practicing on Monday at all.

I have a good feeling though that the USGA has considered these options and has a dozen contingency plans to deal with what could happen.

John,

I completely agree with your comments.  I also do not think that the tickets would be that significant of an issue.  Typical U.S. Open play-offs do not have crowds of more than a few thousand (although Tiger's presence changes that), and Women's Open practice rounds also do not have overwhelming crowds.

However, this returns to the essence of my question: With this decision does this mean the USGA will abandon the 18-hole playoff (even if just for that one year), or has the USGA decided to not yet move away from the 18-hole playoff (not even for one year), and thus decided that if necessary they can consider completing a playoff on the Monday of The U.S. Women's Open week.


Here is how I see their options:

1) At this point in time we see an 18-hole playoff for the men fully possible under this format.  (Although other factors unrelated to this format could cause a change to the current playoff method for the U.S. Open.)

2) An 18-hole playoff is not a viable option for this format and we plan to use an alternate playoff method in an attempt to try to conclude the tournament on Sunday.  (This may or may not be a one time occurrence due only to this format of back-to-back Opens.)

3) We believe that an 18-hole playoff is possible, but we admit to still not being completely sure.  Therefore, we have accepted that we may have to abandon the 18-hole playoff – possibly for this one time only.

OR

4) We have concluded that for a variety of reasons that we will no longer be using the 18-hole playoff method beginning the next few years.  Therefore it was not a factor in the decision to hold back-to-back Opens.


I think these options had to be handled by the USGA before their decision was final: Either yes we can still have an 18-hole playoff even with back-to-back Opens (although for other reasons we may decide to go to an alternate form of playoff for the U.S. Open), or no an 18-hole playoff will not be possible (at least for that one year).

This is one question that must be asked by the press.  If the USGA does not admit that have considered and decided if an 18-hole playoff is still possible under this format, they are not being truthful.

[Dan_Callahan]

This might be a stupid question, and I know it breaks with all tradition, but why couldn't they hold the playoff on a different course? At that point, we are talking about match play, which makes the setting less relevant. There are a shitload of good courses at the resort . . . why not just move the playoff a few hundred yards away?

For what it's worth, I hate the idea of playing both Opens at the same course. I guess it is fiscally responsible, but I look forward to seeing great courses at those events . . . courses I might not otherwise ever see. Doubling up, especially on a public course, takes some of that interest away.

[Cabell Ackerly]

This might be a stupid question, and I know it breaks with all tradition, but why couldn't they hold the playoff on a different course? At that point, we are talking about match play, which makes the setting less relevant. There are a shitload of good courses at the resort . . . why not just move the playoff a few hundred yards away?

That would be great...except for those trying to put it on TV and those trying to watch it on TV.

[Dan_Callahan]

What's wrong with a bunch of hand-held cameras on the course? All they ever show is putting anyway . . .

[John Moore II]

This might be a stupid question, and I know it breaks with all tradition, but why couldn't they hold the playoff on a different course? At that point, we are talking about match play, which makes the setting less relevant. There are a shitload of good courses at the resort . . . why not just move the playoff a few hundred yards away?

For what it's worth, I hate the idea of playing both Opens at the same course. I guess it is fiscally responsible, but I look forward to seeing great courses at those events . . . courses I might not otherwise ever see. Doubling up, especially on a public course, takes some of that interest away.

The only problem would be figureing out which other course. I am not sure how much of the other courses are used up in the residual areas for the corporate tents and such. I know the 1st hole on courses 3 and 5 would be shut down and likely the 18th on course #1 (not that those courses would be used in the playoff anyway). I am not sure how much may be taken away from Course #4 in the set-up. So if part of #4 was taken over by the facilities (and it very well may be used as a parking lot on the back side of the property), that would likely mean you had to hold the playoff on Course #7, based on proximity and the fact that it would be nearly impossible to get crowds of any size onto Courses 6 or 8 because of where they are located.

Hand held cameras would be no problem at all, the issue would be getting people to the course. There is very limited parking near courses 6 or 8 and not enough buses in the Sandhills to shuttle people from the main parking over to those courses.

Like I said, I am sure the USGA has considered all these situations more than once.

[Matt_Ward]

In all likelihood when the USGA opts to go to the TV networks for more $$ in the years ahead I would think the TV people will certainly have the issue of the Monday playoff on the table.

In short -- if you want more network $$ then the 18-hole playoff will need to go the way of the persimmon driver.

Given the limited leverage events have now in today's decreasing dollars available -- the leverage will fall to the networks.

If not now -- then in the very near future. For all intents and purposes -- I see the USGA heading the same way as the R&A did a few years back.

[Cristian]

A 4 hole playoff may be difficult, especially if the US-Open is held in the South of the US, because of a lack of daylight. Daylight at the Open in the UK is available till 10 o clock, if it is in Scotland even later. A 4 hole playoff, at a much more southern latitude, which may involve more than two players, and which may end up in sudden death anyway may take too long if there is no daylight after 0700 or 0800 pm.

[John Moore II]

A 4 hole playoff may be difficult, especially if the US-Open is held in the South of the US, because of a lack of daylight. Daylight at the Open in the UK is available till 10 o clock, if it is in Scotland even later. A 4 hole playoff, at a much more southern latitude, which may involve more than two players, and which may end up in sudden death anyway may take too long if there is no daylight after 0700 or 0800 pm.

In North Carolina in June, you can feasibly play golf until about 915pm. Now, mind you, its fairly dark by then, but I have been on the course until that time or a few minutes later before. Its roughly the same in Florida as well, though due to the heat, I don't see the US Open being held in Florida anytime soon. The time would not be an issue without a weather delay.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()