Sage Brush

[Sandy Smith]

Here is what the local paper had to say http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Welcome+carpet+rolled+golfing+heaven/1679208/story.html

[Will MacEwen]

So is the membership currently 5K per year?  That isn't bad considering you can bring three guests.  I assume that is only an introductory rate.

It is an ambitious project, and I am impressed that Zokol pulled it off.  I'm still not sure if the model will prove viable.  I'm also not sure about the minimalist/unmaintained bunkers appealing to Canadian high-rollers. 

If anyone from here is thinking of making a trip on the $750 deal I would be up for it.

[Philippe Binette]

Unless they change the holes sequence, the hole on the picture is the 2nd hole

[henrye]

Something in the math doesn't add up - $200,000 memberships going for $5,000.  Plus they let you bring 3 guests for free?  Is this a one year trial membership?

[John Moore II]

Something in the math doesn't add up - $200,000 memberships going for $5,000.  Plus they let you bring 3 guests for free?  Is this a one year trial membership?

Why do you say its a $200,000 membership? What exactly, in your opinion makes it that high priced? Seems to me, $5000 a year for a 'second' course is fairly reasonable. With the 300 members they want, that would add up to about $1.5 million a year, plus whatever you can make from shop and food revenue. Not to mention, if they continue to allow outside play at $700 per foursome, they will be fine. Looking at the conditions of the course in the picture, I'd suggest they do not have an astronomical maintenance budget. If they have a $750,000 budget for course maintenance (thats how much we had to spend for groundskeeping at Mid South) they still have $750,000 left over to pay for the professional staff and caddy/bagroom/outside operations staff. I think $5000 is a very reasonable fee for this course, and right in line. Certainly I don't see the need to charge $200,000

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

[John Moore II]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

That was only a fifth of a million John.

[henrye]

John.  We're just taking the numbers from the article.  Initial memberships were being sold at $200K.  It says they're now being sold for $5K.  I'm not commenting on the economics of the operation, it just stikes me as a hellava discount, unless it's a one year trial or something.

[John Moore II]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

That was only a fifth of a million John.

Aye sir it was only a fifth of a million. I was just using the $250,000 figure as a general number.

I think too often we think of 'exclusive' as being ultra expensive but it doesn't have to be. If a club owner decides he's only going to charge $2500 to join his club, but only invites 30 people, thats pretty exclusive no?

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

That was only a fifth of a million John.

Aye sir it was only a fifth of a million. I was just using the $250,000 figure as a general number.

I think too often we think of 'exclusive' as being ultra expensive but it doesn't have to be. If a club owner decides he's only going to charge $2500 to join his club, but only invites 30 people, thats pretty exclusive no?

yep, and you belong the to extremely exclusive club of Kalen fans, and it didn't cost you a cent.
 

[Will MacEwen]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

That was only a fifth of a million John.

Aye sir it was only a fifth of a million. I was just using the $250,000 figure as a general number.

I think too often we think of 'exclusive' as being ultra expensive but it doesn't have to be. If a club owner decides he's only going to charge $2500 to join his club, but only invites 30 people, thats pretty exclusive no?

Yes, but Zokol needs to recoup his costs on this one. 

I don't know what the lots are going for, but the capital costs of land acquisition, design and construction can't be cheap.  $200k was certainly the initial amount that I heard.  I thought it was fanciful in good times.

[Kalen Braley]

Don't know where the numbers come from, but this was supposed to be a VERY high-end course.

Fair enough but you can be high end/exclusive and not charge a quarter of a million dollars to join.

That was only a fifth of a million John.

Aye sir it was only a fifth of a million. I was just using the $250,000 figure as a general number.

I think too often we think of 'exclusive' as being ultra expensive but it doesn't have to be. If a club owner decides he's only going to charge $2500 to join his club, but only invites 30 people, thats pretty exclusive no?

yep, and you belong the to extremely exclusive club of Kalen fans, and it didn't cost you a cent.
 

Garland,

Ok, ok, ok...I've changed me mind.  I know you've been begging for months now to get in my club, so I'll let you in.

Happy now?    

[John Moore II]

While I can't comment for certain, I would say that given the severity of the land and the fact that he bought it in a huge chunk, coupled with the fact that he does not have a large clubhouse to sustain, plus minimal design and construction, I would say that he likely has not more than $5-7 million invested in the whole deal, possibly less. If he has a good number of lots surrounding the course, that can make up the initial investment cost. I did not read the $200,000 number in the news article.

[Tom_Doak]

John K:

There are not many new courses built for less than $7 million all in, and I would bet a lot of money that Sagebrush is not one of them.  It was a very rugged site with a lot of elevation and a bit of rock ... it might be a $5 million construction budget, but that's without the property costs and the maintenance building and the maintenance equipment.  (And the yurts!) 

If they've done the whole thing for under $10 million, they've done well.  And your business plan works just fine as long as they never want to pay off the $10 million, but sooner or later, I would think they want to.

[John Moore II]

John K:

There are not many new courses built for less than $7 million all in, and I would bet a lot of money that Sagebrush is not one of them.  It was a very rugged site with a lot of elevation and a bit of rock ... it might be a $5 million construction budget, but that's without the property costs and the maintenance building and the maintenance equipment.  (And the yurts!) 

If they've done the whole thing for under $10 million, they've done well.  And your business plan works just fine as long as they never want to pay off the $10 million, but sooner or later, I would think they want to.

Tom-I was not looking at the debt payoff and such; that did not occur to me. I was just pointing out that the $5000 a year would be enough to cover the operating expenses. However, if they bring in $1.5 million in membership revenue (300 members X $5000) and have a $750,000 maintenance budget, that leaves another $750,000 to run the rest of the operation. With the limited clubhouse facilities, I would say that $350,000 a year would be enough to cover the rest of the labor expense (even less if you pay the head pro a smaller salary and give him 100% of pro shop, range and caddy revenue) considering you also will likely make some money off F&B sales. That would leave $400,000 to pay off debt and owners draw. Those are very quickly worked up numbers, but they likely are accurate.