Why doesn't Waterville get more respect?

[Chip Gaskins]

What course is this #18?

[Aidan Bradley]

Waterville #18

[Ally Mcintosh]

Re-Bunker Colours... Surely on a sandy site, the sand should be local sand from the same area.... If that is white, then so be it... If it is beige, or even red, then that's the way it should be too...

[Patrick Glynn]

Ally,

I will check this out, but I am pretty sure the splash bunkers wont last with "normal" beach sand. The particle size & amount of silicon will cause it to get blown out.

Patrick

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,

I will check this out, but I am pretty sure the splash bunkers wont last with "normal" beach sand. The particle size & amount of silicon will cause it to get blown out.

Patrick

You may be right Patrick... It would be interesting to know where you got the sand for the new Lahinch bunkers, seeing as they are fairly high sand-faces?... Although there is a large excavation between the 7th and 9th holes which I presumed had been used for bunker sand.

Do you know if it was wind problems that caused the decision for the bunkers on 7 & 8 to be revetted?... They have been changed since Hawtree's renovation, have they not?

[Emil Weber]

Please don't tell me this is true... :

[Chip Gaskins]

Are all these pictures with rock walls, ponds, etc actual pictures of Waterville on The Ring of Kerry in Ireland?

[Shane Wright]

Please don't tell me this is true... :

This can't be the same Waterville we are talking about

[Aidan Bradley]

The pictures with the stone walls are from Skellig Bay Golf Course which is ten minutes from Waterville, the other side of town....

[Bruce Wellmon]

I played Waterville in 2005. I thought 16, 17, and 18 were epic. However, #3 green, I think, (post Fazio) was so out of character to the rest of the course that it was stunning. The wall looked like Florida to me not Ireland. The day we played, it played long , not firm and fast at all. We also played Dook's. I believe Dook's has had a touch up since then, but in 2005, Waterville was second or third to Ballybunion and Doonbeg on our list of courses played, ahead of Tralee and Dook's. Perhaps Waterville simply does not have the views or elevation changes of Tralee. It is a long trek to get there, but worth it to me.

[Forrest Richardson]

I thought Waterville was extraordinary. I disliked the pond hole, but I forgave that for the amazing landscape and hidden gems across the site. I had never heard much about it and was struck by the same tone as this thread — why does it get dis-sed?

[Matt_Ward]

I agree w Riich G's take on the course -- the front nine is really for all iintents and purposesd a snoozefest. No doubt the wind does blow and when you have 4-5 club wind it can make things really tough. But Waterville lacks real design details that standout long after the round concludes.

I know how many people feel about Old Head -- but if forced to choose between the two and in making a recommendation for those wishing to have something that stays within their memory banks for a long, long time -- the pick would be Old Head.

[Chip Gaskins]

Wow, I suppose I have started a thread I can't finish being it looks like the course has drastically changed since I last played it.  Like I said the first few holes were pretty pedestrian.  But then I thought it was pretty good, interrupted by the pond hole which was really bad and then it got very good again fast and finished strong.  Maybe I am just in love with the Ring of Kerry.  Certainly these pictures make me cringe if some of them are from Waterville.

[Aidan Bradley]

Wow, I suppose I have started a thread I can't finish being it looks like the course has drastically changed since I last played it.  Like I said the first few holes were pretty pedestrian.  But then I thought it was pretty good, interrupted by the pond hole which was really bad and then it got very good again fast and finished strong. 

Chip,

Can I ask you a simple question. Did you enjoy your experience at Waterville or not?

Aidan.

[Chip Gaskins]

Aidan-

Don't get me wrong, I thought your pictures were great, but they were just different than I  remember. 

To answer your question, I loved my time there....to the point I would consider that place I would join as an international member.  I just love the Ring of Kerry.  With that said, I have not seen it since the Tom Fazio redo, but I assume it could not have changed too much and thought maybe he could have put some life in to those first few holes.  It sounds like the quirky knobs around the greens have been flattened and much of the character has been stripped. 

Either way, the Ring of Kerry is one of the magical places on Earth.

Chip

[Shane Wright]

If the discussion on Waterville is going to go towards the lack of green tours, then how on this Earth can anyone say that Portmarnock is a superior golf club.  Is there a 2nd secret Portmarnock Golf Club out there that I didn't find the website for and booked a tee time at a faux Portmarnock club.  Because unless this is so, it isn't even close.  Waterville is so far above and beyond Portmarnock it is silly.  Where are these great green contours at Pmnock. 

Chip, I have had enough discussions with you to have a strong feeling that you would REALLY enjoy Waterville after the re-do.

[Ally Mcintosh]

If the discussion on Waterville is going to go towards the lack of green tours, then how on this Earth can anyone say that Portmarnock is a superior golf club.  Is there a 2nd secret Portmarnock Golf Club out there that I didn't find the website for and booked a tee time at a faux Portmarnock club.  Because unless this is so, it isn't even close.  Waterville is so far above and beyond Portmarnock it is silly.  Where are these great green contours at Pmnock. 

Chip, I have had enough discussions with you to have a strong feeling that you would REALLY enjoy Waterville after the re-do.

Shane,

You seem to really be cranking up the anti-Portmarnock posts...

We've done the "You're not mistaking Portmarnock for Portmarnock Links" discussion, haven't we?... If so, I'd say that there are some wonderful greens at Portmarnock... Green sites (the 14th comes to mind), Greens with great internal contours (the 4th for one is an absolute gem of small bumps and borrows). Also greens with wonderful sweeping slopes (the 8th) and greens with fantastic run-offs (the 15th).

[Rory Connaughton]

Agree with Ally. Have played Portmarnock three times and there are some absolutely terrific greens there.
1, 6, 7, 12, 14, 15 and 18 in particular.

[Aidan Bradley]

Hole #1



Hole #4



Hole #6



Hole #7



Hole #12



Hole #18

[Shane Wright]

If the discussion on Waterville is going to go towards the lack of green tours, then how on this Earth can anyone say that Portmarnock is a superior golf club.  Is there a 2nd secret Portmarnock Golf Club out there that I didn't find the website for and booked a tee time at a faux Portmarnock club.  Because unless this is so, it isn't even close.  Waterville is so far above and beyond Portmarnock it is silly.  Where are these great green contours at Pmnock. 

Chip, I have had enough discussions with you to have a strong feeling that you would REALLY enjoy Waterville after the re-do.

Shane,

You seem to really be cranking up the anti-Portmarnock posts...

We've done the "You're not mistaking Portmarnock for Portmarnock Links" discussion, haven't we?... If so, I'd say that there are some wonderful greens at Portmarnock... Green sites (the 14th comes to mind), Greens with great internal contours (the 4th for one is an absolute gem of small bumps and borrows). Also greens with wonderful sweeping slopes (the 8th) and greens with fantastic run-offs (the 15th).

Ally - Yes, we have had this conversation before.  I bring up part of the discussion again because I continue to see people rank Pmnock so high in their list of Irish courses and Waterville seems to get little respect.  I do not mean to rehash, was doing only to defend my point. 

There were 4 of us on the trip, all who have traveled the world and played a lot of courses.  The hospitality at Pmnock was awesome....had no complaints.  We were just completely flabbergasted at the hype we had read about for years and years about Pmnock. 


Aidan - thanks for the awesome pictures.....believe it or not, I enjoyed seeing quality pictures of Pmnock. I always enjoy seeing your work.  But #1, IMHO, is NOT a great green site.   But I'll give you 12 and 18, definitely good ones. 

[ClarkW]

It seems to me that threads about Waterville pop up on GCA every couple of months... and always reveal sharp differences in opinions regarding Waterville's credibility. From some golfers who do NOT like the course, I have heard the "Florida look" used as a reason. In fact, people have noted the tropical-looking palm fronds on the course and commented unfavorably about them. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this vegetation actually used to protect the coastline from erosion and steady winds (particularly on Liam's Ace #16 and also along the right hand side of #18)? Furthermore, I believe the somewhat temperate conditions in parts of Ireland allow these plants to survive and can also be seen at other courses such as Portmarnock and Old Head.

Aidan's photographs are lovely; however, I think they have caused some confusion among those who haven't been to Waterville in awhile. His photos of the par 3 pond hole (showing the "old" #7 with the pond and the "new" #6 without the pond) and the bunkers on #18 are the only photos of Waterville in this thread. Most of the other photos are of the new Skellig Bay course which some incorrectly assumed was Waterville.

I happen to be a big fan of Waterville and have been for over 10 years (in other words, pre- AND post- Fazio). Yes, the front nine definitely gets off to a slow start and has a few tame holes but I think the changes by Fazio have greatly improved the front side (in particular, the new #6 and 7 holes). However, I don't believe the stone wall and water on the right side of #3 can be attributed to Fazio because I remember it from our initial visit in '96. Furthermore, in my opinion, the back nine at Waterville is extremely strong and offers a couple of excellent par 3s (#12 and 17) and one of the best par 5s in the country (#11). Just my observations...

[mike_malone]

 Clark,

    I plead guilty on the "Florida" look putoff.