[Paul Carey]

Any thoughts on Tim Cate?  He has done Panther's Run Golf Links, Thistle Golf Club, The Player's Club, Tiger's Eye Golf Links, Leopard's Chase Golf Club, Jaguar's Lair Golf Club, Cape Fear National Golf Club all in the Myrtle Beach and the southern cost of NC.

From pictures his courses look artificial and full of eye candy.  How do they play for strategy and interest? 

Thanks in advance.

Paul

[A.G._Crockett]

Any thoughts on Tim Cate?  He has done Panther's Run Golf Links, Thistle Golf Club, The Player's Club, Tiger's Eye Golf Links, Leopard's Chase Golf Club, Jaguar's Lair Golf Club, Cape Fear National Golf Club all in the Myrtle Beach and the southern cost of NC.

From pictures his courses look artificial and full of eye candy.  How do they play for strategy and interest? 

Thanks in advance.

Paul

I think Tim Cate is doing great work; his courses hold their own quite well for strategy and interest.

I would urge you to play his courses first.  I think they are excellent, far from "artificial and full of eye candy."  I have played all of his courses at Ocean Ridge, and especially like Tigers Eye; I think it is one of the best at MB.  I've only played Leopard's once, and liked it less that Tigers Eye, but it was quite good. 

I also like the Thistle a lot, especially the original 18.  (The newest 9 holes are a little "shoehorned" and constricted for my preference.)  In fact, it is higher on my personal favorites list that Tigers Eye, though most MB rating don't agree with that assessment.

[Paul Carey]

A.G. Thanks

The artificiality concept came from pictures he posted on his website.

Paul

[Jim_Kennedy]

Paul,
Just about every 'new' course in the MB area looks the same when photographed from the height used on the Thistle GC website. They're all jacked up out of the marshland and the repetitious mounding that flanks fairways looks terrible from above but is less noticeable from the ground.

It seems to me that most everything there(MB) is so highly engineered that it's nearly impossible to make it look 'real'.
 

[Rick Sides]

I have played two of Tim's courses- Tiger's Eye and Thistle.  I really enjoyed them both.  I know that the pictures look a bit silly because of all the mounds, but his courses are interesting to play and he really has an eye for making courses blend with the environment.  I wish he would do some courses in the Northeast closer to me.

[Bill_McBride]

My first thought - what's with all the apostrophes?

There was a thread a while back about naming modern courses.  Given the high percentage of apostrophisized course names, is it possible there is one development company hiring him?

[A.G._Crockett]

My first thought - what's with all the apostrophes?

There was a thread a while back about naming modern courses.  Given the high percentage of apostrophisized course names, is it possible there is one development company hiring him?

Bill,
That's exactly what it is.  There are 4 courses now at a development called Ocean Ridge Plantation, and each is named after a cat of some sort.  Lion's Paw, Panther's Run, Tiger's Eye, and Leopard's Chase, with a 5th course to be called Jaguar's Lair to open in 2010 (supposedly; hard to imagine in this economy, but we'll see...).  Naming them all after jungle cats is, of course, hokey and very, very Myrtle Beach, but they are all good courses, and Tiger's Eye is excellent.  Lion's Paw, which is the original course at the development, is a Willard Byrd course, and I think Cate did all of the rest.

[Joe Hancock]

My first thought - what's with all the apostrophes?

There was a thread a while back about naming modern courses.  Given the high percentage of apostrophisized course names, is it possible there is one development company hiring him?

Or he has a thing for Frank Zappa.......

[Brad Wilbur]

I have played Tiger's Eye and Leopard's Chase. I prefer Caledonia and True Blue more, but rate these two close to Heritage.  To me the articiiality is not as glaring, compared to seeing an island green out here in desert.

[Scott Weersing]

I noticed that a new course is opening this weekend, Cape Fear National.

Should we care that this course is opening? Was it on our radar of courses to look forward to?

Read more about it here:
http://www.worldgolf.com/newswire/browse/61164-Cape-Fear-National-Brunswick-Forest-Joins-Brunswick-Isles-Golf-Trail-Its-Newest-Member

http://www.capefearnational.com/layout10.asp?id=196&page=5094

The course says it is links and the bunkers look interesting in this photograph: http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090610/ARTICLES/906109968


It seems to me just another course like the ones you would find in Myrtle Beach. 

“I wanted to bring my kinda golf to the Wilmington market. I brought the same competitive attitude that I bring to Myrtle Beach. People up here haven’t been able to play a course with this depth,” Cate said.

I wonder what he means by depth.

[Brett Hochstein]

I actually know some of these courses, namely the 'Cats' at Ocean Ridge, quite well as my family and a big group of friends go down to nearby Ocean Isle Beach every year.

Yes I would say they courses are much better to experience from terra firma but not resoundingly so, especially Thistle where the lined mounding often has no trees or anything else to keep it from standing out so much.  His style of bunkering can stand quite nicely on its own, but with so many courses in close proximity, the look can get monotonous and leave one mixing up holes and courses when they go to recall their rounds.

Strategically, I think the course do not play too badly at all.  My friend and I have a yearly weeklong strokeplay competition, and Tim Cate's courses are among the most fun in calculating and weighing options. 

Tiger's Eye is no doubt the best, both strategically and visually.  The woodland setting is isolated away from the houses, and the fairways have a good amount of width and playing angles.  The greens have a good amount of movement and variety as well; it certainly stands out among the Bland Strand courses. 

Jaguar's Lair is actually being built out of Angel's Trace, a nondescript 27 or 36 hole course that closed down a few years ago.  From my vantage point driving by it, they aren't really building too many new holes--just completely reshaping the hell out of 18 of the old ones.  The reason it has yet to open is obvious (economy), and as of last summer there were still obvious doubts.  Even though it does not seem like it will be the greatest course or if it ever made sense to build it in the first place, it would be sad to seem them come all that way with all that spending only to get cut off--a true waste.

[Tom_Doak]

“I wanted to bring my kinda golf to the Wilmington market. I brought the same competitive attitude that I bring to Myrtle Beach. People up here haven’t been able to play a course with this depth,” Cate said.

Is that really a direct quote -- "My kinda golf" ??  Is that an article with a byline, or a press release quote?

[Norbert P]

I could've Copy and Pasted that whole Brian Mull StarNews article for the hilarity of it but I'll let this passage act as an example of what was in it.


 " . . . From the 1,500 linear feet of bridges, to the high-quality sand in the bunkers – the same used at Augusta National Golf Club – to the 380 drains in the fairway, waterfalls cascading in the shadows of greens. . . ."


 Ugh

[Norbert P]

Hey Garland!   

[Brett Hochstein]

Slag,

Yeah, that sounds about right.

The starters at Leopard's Chase (and I think a few others too now) love to joke that "Tim Cate got a good deal on sand!," because, you know, there are waste areas and bunkers everywhere.  Really clever.  Almost as clever as importing that much sand when you are already building the golf course on the stuff. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Wow,

that looks like a lot of water

[Jud_T]

MOUND-
n. A pile of earth, gravel, sand, rocks, or debris heaped for protection or
concealment.
A natural elevation, such as a small hill.
A raised mass, as of hay; a heap.
 {Archaeology} A large artificial pile of earth or stones often marking a
burial site.
 {Baseball} The slightly elevated pitcher's area in the center of the diamond.
 {Archaic} A hedge or fence.
tr.v. To fortify or conceal with a mound.
To heap into a raised mass.

[Tim Gavrich]

I've played Thistle (all 27) and Tiger's Eye once each and cannot recall more than a couple holes from each course, and I have always had a good ability to recall holes from golf courses I've played.  I do recall that they were kept in nice shape and had nice clubhouses.

That Cape Fear National picture sure looked busy; yikes.

The most enjoyable courses on the Grand Strand seem to set themselves apart by taking advantage of more interesting bits of land.  Caledonia has those fantastic oak trees and the wetlands by the clubhouse.  Pawleys Plantation (I'm a shameless homer for Pawleys) has expanses of marsh to recommend it, as do Tidewater and the Dunes Club.  The Witch has the swamp on the front nine.  The Intracoastal Waterway spices things up at Grande Dunes and the Norman course at Barefoot.  Neither Tiger's Eye nor Thistle are on interesting pieces of land, which makes them relatively unremarkable outside of their good conditioning, at least to me.

[Scott Weersing]

"cannot recall more than a couple holes from each course, and I have always had a good ability to recall holes from golf courses I've played."

I get the feeling from the responses that Tim Cate designs good golf courses that are not memorable. So I guess he would be perfect for a resort course for players who don't care about design.

I am surprised that he has not come up a signature design feature. The only thing that makes it a Cate design it seems is lots of sand.

Tom- I wondered about the press release too. But why would a press release writer use the word, kinda?

I think the course will be well run as Kemper does a good job but I don't know why I would choose it with all the other options. 

[A.G._Crockett]

I don't know a thing about Cape Fear National, and won't until next July at the earliest, but I'll say it again: Tim Cate's courses are good golf courses in every case, and some are better than just good.  Thistle and Tiger's Eye are excellent and hold their own with any legitimate, thoughtful critique, and the rest of the Ocean Ridge Plantation courses are very enjoyable in varying degrees as well.  My least favorite course of the bunch is Lions Paw; it is a Byrd course, and I LIKE Byrd courses!

Myrtle Beach courses often get slaughtered on this site because they cater to the great unwashed of the golfing public.  There are, in fact, LOTS of mediocre golf courses in the Grand Strand area, which is about 80 miles long, and the naming and marketing of the courses is often seems hokey on a website where people routinely jockey for access to the Top 100 private courses in America.  But there are also courses that are under the radar on THIS site that are superb, but get little respect or recognition here.  That's unfortunate, and doesn't reflect well on us, IMO.

Many of the "criticisms" are formulaic, to say the least.  A poster can't remember many holes after one play, so the course design must be suspect.  When the courses are relatively flat, they are described as "nondescript", as the NLE Angel's Trace courses were characterized.  (BTW, I LIKED the Angel's Trace courses a lot, and Cate might be able to take 18 of those 36 holes and really do something cool.)  And if they are NOT flat, they are criticized for "artificial" mounding, as in the Thistle.  Additionally in this thread, we find the criticism that there are bridges and lots of water in tidal marshes of the Atlantic coast!

I learned a long time ago not to take the criticisms of the MB area that show up on this site too seriously.  There is an elitist, herd mentality to it all, and I like golf and golf courses to much to bothered.  Besides, if you guys stay home, I can play more rounds more quickly!

[Ronald Montesano]

One could do a lot worse than receive a life sentence to play Tim Cate courses (I'm thinking William Harries, for example.)  I've only played Thistle, despite the fact that we have four cats at home, and I enjoyed the two nines I did play.  I do agree that certain holes are forgotten, but the one hole that occupies more than a cobweb in my attic is #9 South...a challenging, fortress-style par three (well-elevated green, protected by multiple hazards, yet playable...probably my own demarcation, so bear with me) that is a nice way to close a nine, 18 or 27 hole day.

Cate is not immune to screwball holes...#2 South is one of those, where he tries to make too much happen.  For those who value the ground game, Thistle will be frustrating on a fair number of holes.  It reminds me of a 27-hole complex in Batavia, NY, called Terry Hills.  It is almost like a miniature tour complex.  You have all the doglegs, all the water carries, all the bunkers, that one associates with televised golf...the only diff is that it's not as demanding.  You'll enjoy Thistle, I believe.  I recall thinking enough of it to at least find out who Tim CAte is.

[Dave Taylor]

My dad lives at St. James Plantation so I've played the Player's Club many times. In my opinion it is the best of the 4 courses there but #6 and #7 play very difficult for the average golfer even from the white tees.

There are a few minor complaints about the course. #10 feels shoehorned between #18 and the property line and I'm not crazy about the tree/waste bunker on #18. One or the other would be sufficient, I think.

All in all, though, a solid golf course.

By the way, I'm a newbie here and thouroughly enjoy the forum and look forward to particpating.

Dave

[Scott Weersing]

I don't know a thing about Cape Fear National, and won't until next July at the earliest, but I'll say it again: Tim Cate's courses are good golf courses in every case, and some are better than just good.  Thistle and Tiger's Eye are excellent and hold their own with any legitimate, thoughtful critique, and the rest of the Ocean Ridge Plantation courses are very enjoyable in varying degrees as well.  My least favorite course of the bunch is Lions Paw; it is a Byrd course, and I LIKE Byrd courses!

Myrtle Beach courses often get slaughtered on this site because they cater to the great unwashed of the golfing public.  There are, in fact, LOTS of mediocre golf courses in the Grand Strand area, which is about 80 miles long, and the naming and marketing of the courses is often seems hokey on a website where people routinely jockey for access to the Top 100 private courses in America.  But there are also courses that are under the radar on THIS site that are superb, but get little respect or recognition here.  That's unfortunate, and doesn't reflect well on us, IMO.

Many of the "criticisms" are formulaic, to say the least.  A poster can't remember many holes after one play, so the course design must be suspect.  When the courses are relatively flat, they are described as "nondescript", as the NLE Angel's Trace courses were characterized.  (BTW, I LIKED the Angel's Trace courses a lot, and Cate might be able to take 18 of those 36 holes and really do something cool.)  And if they are NOT flat, they are criticized for "artificial" mounding, as in the Thistle.  Additionally in this thread, we find the criticism that there are bridges and lots of water in tidal marshes of the Atlantic coast!

I learned a long time ago not to take the criticisms of the MB area that show up on this site too seriously.  There is an elitist, herd mentality to it all, and I like golf and golf courses to much to bothered.  Besides, if you guys stay home, I can play more rounds more quickly!

So I think you are saying that Cate does a good job designing courses when given flat land with no features and no budget to move lots of dirt. I am beginning to think that there could be a "hidden treasures of Myrtle Beach" golf tour.

[Tim Gavrich]

I don't know a thing about Cape Fear National, and won't until next July at the earliest, but I'll say it again: Tim Cate's courses are good golf courses in every case, and some are better than just good.  Thistle and Tiger's Eye are excellent and hold their own with any legitimate, thoughtful critique, and the rest of the Ocean Ridge Plantation courses are very enjoyable in varying degrees as well.  My least favorite course of the bunch is Lions Paw; it is a Byrd course, and I LIKE Byrd courses!

Myrtle Beach courses often get slaughtered on this site because they cater to the great unwashed of the golfing public.  There are, in fact, LOTS of mediocre golf courses in the Grand Strand area, which is about 80 miles long, and the naming and marketing of the courses is often seems hokey on a website where people routinely jockey for access to the Top 100 private courses in America.  But there are also courses that are under the radar on THIS site that are superb, but get little respect or recognition here.  That's unfortunate, and doesn't reflect well on us, IMO.

Many of the "criticisms" are formulaic, to say the least.  A poster can't remember many holes after one play, so the course design must be suspect.  When the courses are relatively flat, they are described as "nondescript", as the NLE Angel's Trace courses were characterized.  (BTW, I LIKED the Angel's Trace courses a lot, and Cate might be able to take 18 of those 36 holes and really do something cool.)  And if they are NOT flat, they are criticized for "artificial" mounding, as in the Thistle.  Additionally in this thread, we find the criticism that there are bridges and lots of water in tidal marshes of the Atlantic coast!

I learned a long time ago not to take the criticisms of the MB area that show up on this site too seriously.  There is an elitist, herd mentality to it all, and I like golf and golf courses to much to bothered.  Besides, if you guys stay home, I can play more rounds more quickly!

A.G.--

I did not mean to sound dismissive of Tim Cate and Thistle and Tiger's Eye in my post; I certainly did not dislike either course after playing it and so "suspect" would be a bit more harsh a declaration than I would make about those courses.  I would absolutely welcome the opportunity to play them again, but I can think of other courses that I feel more eager to return to on the Grand Strand.

I fancy myself an ardent defender of many Myrtle Beach golf courses.  I wholeheartedly disagree with the "K-Mart-by-the-Sea" designation; there are some very good courses in the area, and to hear the area totally dismissed on the face of it is disappointing.

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