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Mike Sweeney

"Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« on: June 04, 2009, 07:34:28 AM »
Jack gets a little too much heat around here. Hard to argue with him bringing Jackie Burke to The Memorial, which is a tournament and course that I love to watch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/sports/golf/04golf.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=still%20giving%20lessons&st=cse
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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 07:40:37 AM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on June 04, 2009, 07:34:28 AM
Jack gets a little too much heat around here. Hard to argue with him bringing Jackie Burke to The Memorial, which is a tournament and course that I love to watch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/sports/golf/04golf.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=still%20giving%20lessons&st=cse

I think he is 100% right. Golf in the US is just carrying too much baggage in the form of fitness centers, banquet halls and the such...which drives up the cost of rounds and keeps golf out of the price range for many potential golfers.
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H.P.S.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 08:01:07 AM »
Quote from: Pat Craig on June 04, 2009, 07:40:37 AM
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on June 04, 2009, 07:34:28 AM
Jack gets a little too much heat around here. Hard to argue with him bringing Jackie Burke to The Memorial, which is a tournament and course that I love to watch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/sports/golf/04golf.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=still%20giving%20lessons&st=cse

I think he is 100% right. Golf in the US is just carrying too much baggage in the form of fitness centers, banquet halls and the such...which drives up the cost of rounds and keeps golf out of the price range for many potential golfers.

Burke sums it up with his comment about juniors.

Recently golf business plans have been about selling memberships to wealthy people who think they MIGHT (or should) want to be golfers, as opposed to lifelong GOLFERS who will do whatever it takes to join and support a club which is about golf, not social standing and amenities.

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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM »
Mr Burke is right...

to me, an ideal club would have:

1) a well design course in good shape without overstressing the course (greens at 8 on the stimp are fine with me)
2) a gravel parking lot, sorry high heels shoes !!!
3) a small clubhouse, with a TV and a pool table


4) the menu:
- paninis (ham and cheese or whatever)
- chips
- green salad
- a BBQ for occasionnal burgers
- beer and drinks

DONE

You don't even need a kitchen for that, just a fridge and a panini machine.


you go to a golf course to play golf, have fun and relax, not being stressed with all the amenities of a country club.


GOLF IS NOT ABOUT HAVING TO TIP 5 GUYS ON YOUR WAY TO THE FIRST TEE. (Brian Schneider at Barnbougle)
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 08:52:32 AM »
Jack Burke is right but the concept of a residential golf community,which has accounted for much of the golf course construction in recent years, does not fit with a minimal clubhouse. Of course, there's no excuse for building "monuments to excess"  in such places as Ginn's Tesoro  90000sf clubhouse.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Anthony Gray

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 08:56:43 AM »


  Different strokes for different folks. There is room in golf for a variety of clubs. I would like to see a fitness center at my club. It would get you out of the house and give you the oppertunity to see some friends.

  Anthony

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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 09:08:20 AM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on June 04, 2009, 08:56:43 AM


  Different strokes for different folks. There is room in golf for a variety of clubs. I would like to see a fitness center at my club. It would get you out of the house and give you the oppertunity to see some friends.

  Anthony



That's why I go to the Y early in the morning, but everybody I see there wants to pay for a fitness center.  We built a fitness center in our new tennis center and nobody much uses it although everybody pays for it.  We pay a "debt reduction" assessment every month to help cover the cost of the interest on the $6M we borrowed to rebuild the courses and supplement the insurance proceeds to build a new clubhouse.  Lord help us!
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Trey Stiles

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 09:19:32 AM »
Mr. Burke is a classic

I used to work with a guy who was a lifelong Champions member ... I never grew weary of hearing the Burkisms.

Champions is a great example of a US Golf Club.
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Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 09:28:51 AM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM

4) the menu:
- paninis ...


Paninis!!??  Oooh, Mr. Fancy Pants!   Are you too good for Stewart's Sandwiches ??   ;D ;D ;D

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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »
Quote from: Tom Yost on June 04, 2009, 09:28:51 AM
Quote from: Philippe Binette on June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM

4) the menu:
- paninis ...


Paninis!!??  Oooh, Mr. Fancy Pants!   Are you too good for Stewart's Sandwiches ??   ;D ;D ;D



What's next? Quiche and a nice Riesling as lunch?!?!?!  ;D ;)
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H.P.S.

Mark Woodger

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 09:45:54 AM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM
Mr Burke is right...

to me, an ideal club would have:

1) a well design course in good shape without overstressing the course (greens at 8 on the stimp are fine with me)
2) a gravel parking lot, sorry high heels shoes !!!
3) a small clubhouse, with a TV and a pool table


4) the menu:
- paninis (ham and cheese or whatever)
- chips
- green salad
- a BBQ for occasionnal burgers
- beer and drinks

DONE

You don't even need a kitchen for that, just a fridge and a panini machine.


you go to a golf course to play golf, have fun and relax, not being stressed with all the amenities of a country club.


Please let me know if anybody finds this near New York City!
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Anthony Gray

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 09:49:16 AM »

  Compareing residential golf communities that have a pool,restuarant,and fitness center to your local muni is like compareing apples to apples if you what  I mean.

  Anthony

« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 09:57:35 AM by Anthony Gray »
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K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 09:54:07 AM »
Quote from: Trey Stiles on June 04, 2009, 09:19:32 AM
Mr. Burke is a classic

I used to work with a guy who was a lifelong Champions member ... I never grew weary of hearing the Burkisms.

Champions is a great example of a US Golf Club.

He is the best.  His book It's Only a Game: Words of Wisdom from a Lifetime in Golf should be required reading for anybody that plays or is otherwise associated with the game.
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Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 09:58:04 AM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on June 04, 2009, 09:49:16 AM


  Compareing residential golf communities that have a pool,restuarant,and fitness center to your local muni is like compareing apples to apples if you what  mean.


They are for people who's shirt is the same color as their shirt.

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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2009, 10:00:50 AM »
Paninis:

two slices of bread,
meat, cheese or whatever else in the middle,
pressed and grilled.

basically a toasted sandwich, I don't call that fancy...

It could be hot-dogs if you want.


As long as there's enough beer







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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 10:03:02 AM »
I forgot:

In the U.S.: dijon mustard is outrageously fancy... ask Barack Obama
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Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 10:06:58 AM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM
Mr Burke is right...

to me, an ideal club would have:

1) a well design course in good shape without overstressing the course (greens at 8 on the stimp are fine with me)
2) a gravel parking lot, sorry high heels shoes !!!
3) a small clubhouse, with a TV and a pool table


4) the menu:
- paninis (ham and cheese or whatever)
- chips
- green salad
- a BBQ for occasionnal burgers
- beer and drinks

DONE

You don't even need a kitchen for that, just a fridge and a panini machine.


you go to a golf course to play golf, have fun and relax, not being stressed with all the amenities of a country club.


GOLF IS NOT ABOUT HAVING TO TIP 5 GUYS ON YOUR WAY TO THE FIRST TEE. (Brian Schneider at Barnbougle)

Prout's Neck in Maine gets quite close to your criteria.  Just a wonderful place.
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Sam Maryland

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 10:57:30 PM »
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 12:41:03 AM »
Quote from: Philippe Binette on June 04, 2009, 08:51:49 AM
Mr Burke is right...

to me, an ideal club would have:

1) a well design course in good shape without overstressing the course (greens at 8 on the stimp are fine with me)
2) a gravel parking lot, sorry high heels shoes !!!
3) a small clubhouse, with a TV and a pool table


4) the menu:
- paninis (ham and cheese or whatever)
- chips
- green salad
- a BBQ for occasionnal burgers
- beer and drinks

DONE

You don't even need a kitchen for that, just a fridge and a panini machine.


you go to a golf course to play golf, have fun and relax, not being stressed with all the amenities of a country club.


GOLF IS NOT ABOUT HAVING TO TIP 5 GUYS ON YOUR WAY TO THE FIRST TEE. (Brian Schneider at Barnbougle)

sounds a lot like The Dunes CLub...without the paninis...they serve hamburgers
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Matt Day

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 03:47:14 AM »
I can remember walking around the clubhouse of Prestonwood CC in North Carolina with a group of aussie supers and thinking how f....n big is this joint. The locker room had more tv's and better furniture than most clubhouses in Australia  :)

We had lunch their and was blown away with the food available, the service and the hospitality
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Shannon Wheeler

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 08:35:19 AM »
I'd say Pablo Creek in Jax and Lochinvar in Houston would fit the mold of ideal golf clubs. Small club houses, small pro shop, small grill rooms, and outstanding design and conditioning.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 08:42:30 AM »
Sweens- JN only gets heat for his GCA around here, which is fair. Then there's those who just want to give the guy head for a chance at an interview. Say La Vie   ;)

He was interviewed last night on the tellie, he looked great. When asked about his travels he rattled off about 100,000 miles in the next two weeks. Going from China & South Africa to Oklahoma and Nebraska.

Anyone know what  he's doing here?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2009, 11:24:04 AM »
Matt Day:  Aren't you glad you didn't have to pay dues for all that sumptuous food and furniture in NC?

One of the disturbing things about golf in China (so far) is that they are all in favor of the sumptuous clubhouse.  I hope they wise up or the overhead will kill golf there.

I hereby nominate Jackie Burke for USGA President!  Anyone second?
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Anthony Gray

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2009, 11:31:53 AM »


 Doesn't a clubhouse/resturannt/pool/fitness center pay for its self at a residential course? Friday nights are a blast at my club wth awesome dinner specials. Sherwood's clubhouse looks hugh and I bet it is profitable. As for munis that are golf only I can understand the small clubhouse.

  Anthony

 
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Rich Goodale

Re: "Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2009, 12:14:34 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on June 05, 2009, 11:24:04 AM
Matt Day:  Aren't you glad you didn't have to pay dues for all that sumptuous food and furniture in NC?

One of the disturbing things about golf in China (so far) is that they are all in favor of the sumptuous clubhouse.  I hope they wise up or the overhead will kill golf there.

I hereby nominate Jackie Burke for USGA President!  Anyone second?

Tom

I'll second Jackie Burke, for anything!

As for the Chinese, I think you are wrong about their overspending on clubhouses and other amenities.  Those guys know how to party!

Rich
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