[Tom Huckaby]

Pat:

In case you didn't know, Mr. Huntley is a member at MPCC.  He gave what I feel are very valid reasons NOT to want to have this event.  His course needs no exposure, and they have held an annual pro event there anyway (Boys & Girls Club charity scramble) during AT&T week - so he knows what pros can do on his course.

No, as I see it Bob has very clearly listed the many negatives, which to me outweigh quite clearly any positives that might be gained.  Add to this specific instance that our golf association gets screwed and the course might get butchered due to this, and I just can't see how anyone could see it differently in this specific instance.

But perhaps you just mean the general... in which case at least I could see some logic.

Outside of that, well we shall just have to agree to disagree.

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

I personally don't know why anybody would want the hassle. MPCC is probably the best 36 hole private golf course on the west coast and why they need the attention I don't know. Hopefully they are making a ton of money on this.

[Jay Flemma]

I don't think they showed a single shot from Spyglass or Poppy this year, so other than patrons no one will probably get to see the course on the TV.

What a great comment, wish I would have said that ...

But isn't the whole point - from the TV perspective - that MPCC is as gorgeous as pebble and there for you CAN show twice as many shots or more as spyglass and poppy combined?

[PCCraig]

Pat:

In case you didn't know, Mr. Huntley is a member at MPCC.  He gave what I feel are very valid reasons NOT to want to have this event.  His course needs no exposure, and they have held an annual pro event there anyway (Boys & Girls Club charity scramble) during AT&T week - so he knows what pros can do on his course.

No, as I see it Bob has very clearly listed the many negatives, which to me outweigh quite clearly any positives that might be gained.  Add to this specific instance that our golf association gets screwed and the course might get butchered due to this, and I just can't see how anyone could see it differently in this specific instance.

But perhaps you just mean the general... in which case at least I could see some logic.

Outside of that, well we shall just have to agree to disagree.

TH

I understand Tom that Bob is a member. I really wasn't making a direct comment at him, more of just a general one at that. I really understand both positions, but my opinion was that I thought it would be neat if I were a member of a club looking to host big events. Then again I understand the horror stories from some clubs as well.

It will be interesting either way to see how the MPCC does next spring.

[Bob_Huntley]

I don't think they showed a single shot from Spyglass or Poppy this year, so other than patrons no one will probably get to see the course on the TV.

What a great comment, wish I would have said that ...

But isn't the whole point - from the TV perspective - that MPCC is as gorgeous as pebble and there for you CAN show twice as many shots or more as spyglass and poppy combined?

Craig,

We are not making a penny out of this. We are indemnified for damgage to the course and property and that's it.

Bob



Jay,

You must not have read my previous comments, there will be shots of the course  but if you think that there will shots galore of the players you will be disappointed.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Pat:  understood.  But my feeling remains that while this is neat in theory, in practice it is darn near always gonna be more pain than gain.  And in MPCC's case that is true in spades.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I suppose the fact that it'll be held in the shoulder season (February) can be both good and bad.

Good because perhaps with inclement weather the members aren't tempted to play as often during winter months and will miss out on less golf.

Bad because soft conditions could lead to even more damage from the galleries.

[Tim Leahy]

I don't think they showed a single shot from Spyglass or Poppy this year, so other than patrons no one will probably get to see the course on the TV.

What a great comment, wish I would have said that ...

Is there an echo in here?   oops

[Nick Church]

So how do the logistical concerns (crowd control, etc) compare CPC as a third course versus MPCC?

[Jay Flemma]

Having played both the Shore and the Dunes course,  I don't think the Shore was ever meant for Pro Tournament play. And of the two, the Dunes at MPCC is a far stronger venue.

The only positive for CBS is to give Jimmy Nantz more to swoon over !

Tom,

There will be no fixed cameras on the Shore. The beauty shots will be made by hand-held equipment and from the Blimp.

Bob

hmmm...bummer.  Still, it gets Mike Strantz's name out there and helps build and preserve his precious legacy as a designer.

And it will be fun to see her, even in a limited capacity.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jay:

Those are two positives.

Can you not see the massive negatives, which rather drown those out?

I sure can see them.. surprised you cannot (or choose not to).  Heck, if Strantz's legacy is an interest, you should be out there picketing, as this decision is so likely leading toward butchering of his design... read back in the thread... lengthening the course and changing it, to suit the pros or otherwise?



Tom H.

[Jay Flemma]

Tom, I walked headlong into the 1-2-3 madness at Torrey, which has far to many bottlenecks.  The canyons already took away room for people to walk, so yes, it'll be just as much of a nightmare.  But you get that hosting a golf tournament.  I'm given to understand that they won't erase mike's work, just make more positions in which to hold the competition.

Forrest Fezler held the course record there of 70 for 8 years...it wont play THAT easy!  If it gets windy, it stiffens too.  I have empathy for your position, and understand a big tournament chews up a course, but for a short term, perhaps the equation isn't as one sided as you might feel at first.  After all, we get to promote Mike, people get to see a truly great golf course.  The course will always grow back.  And don't think that the golf world isn't grateful to the members for the sacrifice they have to make, we are.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jay:  that is somewhat persuasive, but only somewhat.  I still fall quite hard on the feeling that this is a very bad idea.  The reasons for such have already been delineated.  You present two small positives, I see many very huge negatives.. not the least of which is my beloved home golf association is getting royally screwed.   I also think it's naive to think all they would do is add some longer tees.. heck it's already being discussed in this thread what other changes might be made.  Finally, you might note that I did not list as any sort of concern how low they go with scores - truly, who cares?  Bob did list that yes, but I believe not as a reason not to hold it there, but rather as a side-note. 

Nope.  I still find the equation very one-sided.

But disagreement is the currency of this forum, so disagree we shall.

TH

[George Pazin]

George,

Tiger is not in love with the Monterey Peninsula in February and has so stated.

Having swapped his allegience from Buick to A.T.& T.,  it would seem obvious that he has taken the King's shilling and is duty bound to play in their premier tournament.

Thanks, Bob. I guess I haven't been paying attention, I didn't realize Tiger was now with AT&T.

My unspoken (till now) goal was to someday offer Tiger a big $$$ donation to his foundation in return for teeing it up with me at the Crosby - guess that honor goes to the chairman of AT&T now.

I hope everything works out okay with your club.

[Pat Burke]

Agree with many of the negatives posted.  Also have played a good number of rounds at MPCC pre and post reno.
One thing to remember, whether you agree or not, Poppy was disliked by a huge number of the pros, and mostly met with disinterest by many of the amateurs.  The sales of amateur spots (directly or through sponsors) IS the success of this tournament.
There are many times that the exempt list for pros goes so deep that anyone who still has there name on a bag is close to getting in.
Can you imagine paying the fee to play in AT&T and getting ME as your partner every year
The venue change will interest more pros, which will help increase interest in selling pro am spots in an economy that will challenge all of these tournaments more than they have in recent memory.
MPCC will be seen as a significant upgrade over Poppy by a vast majority of pros, and will likely help the tournament succeed.
I hope it works out, and the members can bear it, it is a great place

[Greg Tallman]

For the record, let it be shown that there were 248 Nays, 343 Ayes and proxy votes numbering 99 that the Board voted Aye. That is a negative count of 33% of the Members who thought it a bad idea.

For those of you who have played the Shore, just imagine if you will, the scene at the fifth tee with Tiger Woods on the tee. Phil Mickelson holing out on the fourth green, Anthony Kim doing like wise on the sixteenth green and Bill Murray teeing off on seventeen. The crowd scene would be reminiscent of Times Square on VE Day.

I have seen a couple of GCA'ers hit the first green with mid-irons and they were not scratch players. If par is not reduced on certain holes we shall see scores seen only at Indian Wells.

I think the work of the Northern California Golf Association has been damaged by this move and I for one, voted against it.

Bob

I know a few of your fellow members who are none to pleased about this. The logic does not make that much sense for MPCC as a club.

[Tom Huckaby]

Pat:

Those are good points, but was this tournamant in any danger of failure?  Are they really having any troubles selling the pro-am spots?  Remember Tiger was coming back anyway. Keep it at Poppy and zero changes to the negative, as I see it.  Some pros continue to whine, but our golf association continues to get it's income and exposure, MPCC never gets hacked and butchered, and all seems to be well by me.

Move it to MPCC and you add a lot of negatives.  

BTW I'd pay to play with you.  If I were rich, that is.

 

[Pat Burke]

Pat:

Those are good points, but was this tournamant in any danger of failure?  Are they really having any troubles selling the pro-am spots?  Remember Tiger was coming back anyway. Keep it at Poppy and zero changes to the negative, as I see it.  Some pros continue to whine, but our golf association continues to get it's income and exposure, MPCC never gets hacked and butchered, and all seems to be well by me.

Move it to MPCC and you add a lot of negatives.  

BTW I'd pay to play with you.  If I were rich, that is.

 

Don't need to be rich!  Just come on down to socal!

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom, I walked headlong into the 1-2-3 madness at Torrey, which has far to many bottlenecks.  The canyons already took away room for people to walk, so yes, it'll be just as much of a nightmare.  But you get that hosting a golf tournament.  I'm given to understand that they won't erase mike's work, just make more positions in which to hold the competition.

Forrest Fezler held the course record there of 70 for 8 years...it wont play THAT easy!  If it gets windy, it stiffens too.  I have empathy for your position, and understand a big tournament chews up a course, but for a short term, perhaps the equation isn't as one sided as you might feel at first.  After all, we get to promote Mike, people get to see a truly great golf course.  The course will always grow back.  And don't think that the golf world isn't grateful to the members for the sacrifice they have to make, we are.

Jay,

I am shocked, stunned and surprised that you could make such an error. Forrest Fezler's record of 70 that stood for a number of years was at....hold it...Spyglass Hill, not MPCC.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Pat - some day we gotta make that happen.  The drinks of choice are on me.  Methinks we'd have a lot of fun.

 

[Mike Benham]

Torrey Pines has far more space for fans to trample then MPCC Shore ... remember the width of Shore's fairways and the minimal width of rough before you get into the nasty grass.  On almost all of the fairways, patrons will only be allowed on one side of the fairway.

And they could have held the 2010 ATT at Pacific Grove, Old Del Monte and Pebble and you will have a much better turn out of top pros then last year because they will want to see Pebble in advance of the Open in June.

[Bob_Huntley]

Agree with many of the negatives posted.  Also have played a good number of rounds at MPCC pre and post reno.
One thing to remember, whether you agree or not, Poppy was disliked by a huge number of the pros, and mostly met with disinterest by many of the amateurs.  The sales of amateur spots (directly or through sponsors) IS the success of this tournament.
There are many times that the exempt list for pros goes so deep that anyone who still has there name on a bag is close to getting in.
Can you imagine paying the fee to play in AT&T and getting ME as your partner every year
The venue change will interest more pros, which will help increase interest in selling pro am spots in an economy that will challenge all of these tournaments more than they have in recent memory.
MPCC will be seen as a significant upgrade over Poppy by a vast majority of pros, and will likely help the tournament succeed.
I hope it works out, and the members can bear it, it is a great place

Pat,

There is not a dearth of amateurs willing to pony up to play in the tournament. In fact, A.T.&T. dictates who gets first dibs at the amateur pool. I remember entertaining the No. 3 guy at the company at MPCC, the year we substituted for a waterlogged Spyglass Hill. His companion that day was a quiet sort of a guy who never offered to pay for his lunch. When I asked the No 3 chap who he was, I learned that he was the President or something or other at Penn State and they were one of the heaviest users of A.T. &T. in the State.  

Run up your phone bill, you might get an invite.

Bob

[David Kelly]

Why don't they just limit the amount of tickets sold or weekly pass holders that are allowed to spectate on the course at a given time. It would be really cool if they limit the spectators to 2-3,000.

Because the point of the whole enterprise is to make money, be it for the charities or the PGA.

There are a million reasons why we would like the tournament to go there and many have been stated in this thread but for the life of me I can't figure out why the majority of the MPCC members wanted it.

[Bob_Huntley]

Agree with many of the negatives posted.  Also have played a good number of rounds at MPCC pre and post reno.
One thing to remember, whether you agree or not, Poppy was disliked by a huge number of the pros, and mostly met with disinterest by many of the amateurs.  The sales of amateur spots (directly or through sponsors) IS the success of this tournament.
There are many times that the exempt list for pros goes so deep that anyone who still has there name on a bag is close to getting in.
Can you imagine paying the fee to play in AT&T and getting ME as your partner every year
The venue change will interest more pros, which will help increase interest in selling pro am spots in an economy that will challenge all of these tournaments more than they have in recent memory.
MPCC will be seen as a significant upgrade over Poppy by a vast majority of pros, and will likely help the tournament succeed.
I hope it works out, and the members can bear it, it is a great place

Pat,

There is not a dearth of amateurs willing to pony up to play in the tournament. In fact, A.T.&T. dictates who gets first dibs at the amateur pool. I remember entertaining the No. 3 guy at the company at MPCC, the year we substituted for a waterlogged Spyglass Hill. His companion that day was a quiet sort of a guy who never offered to pay for his lunch. When I asked the No 3 chap who he was, I learned that he was the President or something or other at Penn State and they were one of the heaviest users of A.T. &T. in the State.  

Run up your phone bill, you might get an invite.

Bob

Pat,

I should correct that I was not entertaining the gentlemen mentioned. The Tournament Director asked our Pro if the some of the contestants could have a practice round at MPCC. I agreed to accompany them around the course, not to feed and water them, hence my jibe about the tightness of some Pennsylvanians.

Bob

[Jay Flemma]

Tom, I walked headlong into the 1-2-3 madness at Torrey, which has far to many bottlenecks.  The canyons already took away room for people to walk, so yes, it'll be just as much of a nightmare.  But you get that hosting a golf tournament.  I'm given to understand that they won't erase mike's work, just make more positions in which to hold the competition.

Forrest Fezler held the course record there of 70 for 8 years...it wont play THAT easy!  If it gets windy, it stiffens too.  I have empathy for your position, and understand a big tournament chews up a course, but for a short term, perhaps the equation isn't as one sided as you might feel at first.  After all, we get to promote Mike, people get to see a truly great golf course.  The course will always grow back.  And don't think that the golf world isn't grateful to the members for the sacrifice they have to make, we are.

Jay,

I am shocked, stunned and surprised that you could make such an error. Forrest Fezler's record of 70 that stood for a number of years was at....hold it...Spyglass Hill, not MPCC.

Bob

That's what Fuzzy told me:)  he and I talked a little while ago.  I must have misheard him, I was typing notes.  I thought he was talking about MPCC. 

Well that's still quite a feather in his cap!  The course record at Spyglass for 8 years is pretty cool too.

Tom, I understand that you are hurt and concerned for your course and that you take your position out of love for her and the courage to stand up for your convictions.  I respect that.  Here's hoping they pleasantly suprise you.

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