[Mike_Cirba]

So, we all love restoration of our golf courses to something much closer to what our long-dead heroes originally built, don't we?

Removal of unncessary trees, recovery of bunkers, addition of green space, and fairway widths, and orignal lines and options of play...

What's not to like for purists like us?

But, what's the truth from an economic standpoint?

Let me give an example...

Let's say an existing public course with an awesome historical pedigree is restored to the original routing and something approximating it's glory heydays of the 1920s.

Who besides us really cares?

Can someone describe for me an economic model that can justify the $$ required to restore a course?

If I put, let's say 2-3 million dollars into a restoration project, wihat does the ROI look like?

When it was done at Memorial Park in Houston, Papago in Phoenix, Brackenridge in San Antonio, or even Bethpage in NYC, what was the bottom line impact?

Did it end up as just a feel-good story or were there actually financial benefits to those responsible for balancing the P&L statement?

Let's hear some real life examples of positive financial impact a restoration can bring, not only to public courses, but to private clubs who may have enhanced their membership and competitive attractiveness.

Also, let's hear some horror stories from the other side of the fence, where capital $$ were spent only to add bunting to an ultimately sinking ship.

[Ben Sims]

Cirba,

You mention Brack.  I've played it once, after the restoration, last weekend.  If I had never played the course in question I'd say, "Nailed it Cirba, it serves no purpose and costs money that probably won't be recouped."

After playing several other courses in the area in the past week--La Cantera Palmer, Bandit, Pecan Valley--I'll go out on a limb and say that Brack will increase it's overall play 10%.  I base that on several variables.  1) Talking to locals who know the lay of the land in San Antonio say that the course is unequivocally a MUCH better golf course than it was before.  One of my foursome was a member at San Antonio Country Club--a Findlay/Tillinghast, Silva reno--and he stated that it looked and played a lot like SACC.  2) I am finding that the golfing community in San Antonio is very much reverent to their older layouts if some TLC is put into them.  Witness Pecan Valley, that has done quite well after it's $5million redo. 

Overall however, I think the question is hit and miss based on the particular renovation in question.  Pasatiempo is a success, so is MPCC Shore.  Those are high profile.  I doubt San Antonio needed it's Silva redo to remain financially viable.  Haggin Oaks in Sacramento had a renovation to reestablish original MacKenzie greens, improve player sight lines and irrigation.  But in actuality, what makes Haggin Oaks a success, IMHO, is it's insanely good pro shop and teaching reputation.  Again, I think it's specific to the course and a question you can answer generally. 

[Bradley Anderson]

Mike,

I think the biggest economic obstacle to restoration is loss of revenue if the course needs to be closed during restoration.

If you are referring to a Cobbs Creek restoration, the thing there would be adding the 10 or 12 extra men that it would require to maintain the restored version of the golf course.

From what I have seen of the old aerials that you have put up there was a lot of hand mowing around the greens and tees. But, you could restore it so that the triplex mowers could still maintain it. So instead of sending out 4 men to hand mow tees 3 to 4 times week, it might be maintained with one man on a triplex 3 times week. In other words, don't build square tees. Square tees are very cool and retro but they cost a lot to maintain because you can't get the square edge without hand mowers.

The older greens carried the putting turf to the edge of the fill pad. Those are hard to mow with triplexes. So here again, you are limited with restoring those lines with triplex mowers.

But you can plan it so that on some  greens, but not all, a hand mower can handle those delicate areas.

The problem that you are faced with is doing a sensitive restoration that can be maintained with a crew that a public club may afford. IN my opinion Keith Foster did a great traditional type golf course on a public track in Zion Illinois. Shepherds Crook has all of that going for  it, but it can be maintained with a smaller public course crew.

Also there are a lot of expensive trees at Cobbs Creek that should be cut down to free up maintenance dollars for bunkers. Transfer the cost of mowing around tress and picking up sticks and dealing with shit tree refuse and that can go a long ways towards the hand works associated with bringing those bunkers back to where they were back in the day.

The creek is also a problem there. That will have to be naturalized so that it can be maintained, not in a no-maintenance format but in a delayed maintenance format. It needs to be widened so the banks don't fall in, and so that a hog mower can go in there in the fall and cut the brush down.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mike,

I think the biggest economic obstacle to restoration is loss of revenue if the course needs to be closed during restoration.

If you are referring to a Cobbs Creek restoration, the thing there would be adding the 10 or 12 extra men that it would require to maintain the restored version of the golf course.

From what I have seen of the old aerials that you have put up there was a lot of hand mowing around the greens and tees. But, you could restore it so that the triplex mowers could still maintain it. So instead of sending out 4 men to hand mow tees 3 to 4 times week, it might be maintained with one man on a triplex 3 times week. In other words, don't build square tees. Square tees are very cool and retro but they cost a lot to maintain because you can't get the square edge without hand mowers.

The older greens carried the putting turf to the edge of the fill pad. Those are hard to mow with triplexes. So here again, you are limited with restoring those lines with triplex mowers.

But you can plan it so that on some  greens, but not all, a hand mower can handle those delicate areas.

The problem that you are faced with is doing a sensitive restoration that can be maintained with a crew that a public club may afford. IN my opinion Keith Foster did a great traditional type golf course on a public track in Zion Illinois. Shepherds Crook has all of that going for  it, but it can be maintained with a smaller public course crew.

Also there are a lot of expensive trees at Cobbs Creek that should be cut down to free up maintenance dollars for bunkers. Transfer the cost of mowing around tress and picking up sticks and dealing with shit tree refuse and that can go a long ways towards the hand works associated with bringing those bunkers back to where they were back in the day.

The creek is also a problem there. That will have to be naturalized so that it can be maintained, not in a no-maintenance format but in a delayed maintenance format. It needs to be widened so the banks don't fall in, and so that a hog mower can go in there in the fall and cut the brush down.

Bradley,

the club where I am now has square tees and we have no problem mowing them with a triplex or indeed the fairway mower.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

Not sure about restorations vs renovations and if there would be any differences.  But, Bradley is right, the big obstacle is losing revenue for a year and a half.  After that, there are many cases where a good renovation has put a course "back on the map" in the eyes of golfers and increased revenues.  I have one redo of a good golf course (originally Dick Phelps) that saw a million dollar turnaround after the remodel and went from a loss to a profit situation.

Now, that was split between a more attractive design and some improved management.  In truth, one of the biggest problems I see in municipal situations is that they get a great new golf course but don't change their operations mentality from low end muni thinking, as in the example of Cobb Creek needing an estimated 12 more laborers.

Financial success usually comes from all aspects of an operation sending the same signal to a golfer as to what the quality level is. A good course with poor maintenance or service doesn't work any better than a facility with 5 Star service and maintenance on a dog track.  So, when a newly reopened success story like Brack often gets a revenue bump, long term it will slowly slide backwards if the total operations don't meet the great design work.

[Bradley Anderson]

Jon,

How many Bob Marley joints do you have to smoke to get those corners on the tees with a fairway mower?

[Ross Tuddenham]

I think if you want to talk economics and then create a model for such restorations then you will have to look well beyond the financial implications and ROI.  You would need to consider the changes in an individuals utility and what factors effect this.

It is also true that individuals who have not even or will never play the course may increase their utility just with the knowledge that these improvements have been made.  This of course could be translated into a monetary amount but it would include many more factors.

Eg Piece of mind that a national treasure is preserved, enjoyment f playing the course and so on.

And as said even a golf fan’s view that will never play the course may have to be taken on board.  It is similar to the calculations used in deriving the compensation after the Exxon Valdez disaster.  Experiments were carried out to find out how much people would pay just to know that an area of outstanding beauty existed, whether they visit it or not.

This is just some initial thoughts but I am sure people will come up with more in this issue.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike - I think Jeff probably has it right. But just my two cents: my guess is that predicting return on investment based on architectural merit (and the quality of the restoration) is a mug's game. Not because architectural merit and quality are not ends and goods in and of themselves, and not because the so-called "average golfer" can't appreciate them - but because, unless you're selling widgets, what really rings the cash register is the story behind the story. The story is the actual renovation, and its results; the story behind the story is the history of the golf course (its ups and downs, the laughter and the tears) and its design pedigree and evolution (with its heros and villians, charlatans and fools, and the wise self-less souls who bring the great old gal back to life...LIFE, I say!!). The renovations have to MEAN something -- they have to be MADE to mean something -- to the golfer, as golfer and as person. And then after that, what Jeff says too....

Peter

[Carl Nichols]

I think if you want to talk economics and then create a model for such restorations then you will have to look well beyond the financial implications and ROI.  You would need to consider the changes in an individuals utility and what factors effect this.

It is also true that individuals who have not even or will never play the course may increase their utility just with the knowledge that these improvements have been made.  This of course could be translated into a monetary amount but it would include many more factors.

Eg Piece of mind that a national treasure is preserved, enjoyment f playing the course and so on.

And as said even a golf fan’s view that will never play the course may have to be taken on board.  It is similar to the calculations used in deriving the compensation after the Exxon Valdez disaster.  Experiments were carried out to find out how much people would pay just to know that an area of outstanding beauty existed, whether they visit it or not.

This is just some initial thoughts but I am sure people will come up with more in this issue.

Ross:
Those *might* be legitimate considerations for a municipality thinking about making improvements (though even that could be debated), but do you also think they are considerations that a private, profit-seeking company or investor should take into account? 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Peter,

Oh, I agree with you.  Every course does need to have a good backstory to help it disntinguish itself in a crowded marketplace.  There has to be great marketing to get a golfer to want to go to a course the first time.  After that, its the course (see the what golfers want thread) and the service and maintenance - probably in reverse order of what I listed.

In the case of Brack Park, in essence they used Tillie and its history as the nameplate, much like a new course would use a signature designer to drum up interest.  I have seen it done with just a few great photos by some of the guys who post photos here from time to time.  Surprisingly, low tech marketing like email campaigns and coupons have surprisingly good effect.  One operator told me the best marketing device he ever had was a $2 off coupon.

Tough courses and "new and improved" generally get a good early bump. As impressed as I am with the redo at Brack, BTW, I have heard a few people say that it should have stayed easier to fit its role as a muni course.  (I hae heard that about my own redo's as welll) Negative comments, although small in number, could possibly grow and the great restorations could start facing the same pressures the original courses faced in the 30's and 70's - someone will think they cost too much to maintain, take too long to play, or are too hard and they will face pressure to change again.

I suspect that public restorations probably face more downhill momentum than private courses and that the ones that maintain the restorations intended to maintain the original intent will do best if the course has a true champion, as Cobb Creek obviously would.

[Mike_Cirba]

Thanks for all of the great thoughts and feedback so far.   Please keep it coming! 

Bradley,  what is involved in "naturlaizing" a creek?

[Bradley Anderson]

Mike,

I think the best creek restoration we have seen on here was the one that was done at Bedford Springs. I'm not sure if something this ambitious needs to be done at Cobbs Creek, but in either case, amazing things can be done with government funding and with the collaboration of your local environmentalist's.

Here you can see some of the before and after pictures.

Stream banks begin to fall in and erode, and when that happens the water quality is adversely effected. When streams are restored to a natural state like above, the wildlife really benefits.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

The effects on the bootom line at Bethpage are very difficult to understand for those who are not familiar with the financing of the New York State Parks & Recreation department both before and after.

The reason that Bethpage needed the major and massive restoration it went through was because the State Park's department puts ALL of their rervenues into a pool to fund the entire New York State Parks system. For many years the golf revenues at Bethpage funded and kept open a major portion of the entire park system that was unable to carry their own financial needs.

How then does one quantify that in light of your question. Yet the project, and the resulting monumentally successful U.S. Open, did benefit local, state and national golf in many ways that were highly unexpected and appear to be long-lasting.

Local:
1- With the new administration in office these last few years there has been pressure on Bethpage to REDUCE it's maintenance budget by as juch as 2 million dollars to increase the bottom line and add revenues that can be once again used elsewhere throughout the state. Vortunately, both the 2009 Open and the immense constatnt pressure to host future Opens appears to be holding this at bay for the present.
2- A good deal of money has been put into the Red course. The goal is to get it to the point where it really can rival its sister the Black in terms of conditioning and prestige.
3- There are now plans to put more money into the other three courses and to restore a number of original Tillinghast features lost when the Blue course was redone to create the Yellow.

State:
1- Though residents wouldn't think it a positive, it did allow for a substantial raise in green fees. These are being used to provide long-term monies for maintenance and restorations at both Bethpage and other Park courses. The work done at Montauk Downs these last few years comes directly from this.
2- Other New York State Park golf courses are now being pressured by the locals to have moeny put into them so that those local residents can enjoy their own "Bethpage experience."

National:
1- What is forgotten is that the 200 Open was an EXPERIMENT and large Gamble on the part of the USGA. Could a MUNICIPALITY actually host our national championship? Would a Municipal course be able to challenge the best players in the world? Without the INCREDIBLE success at Bethpage in 2002 there would NOT have been a Torrey Pines Open. The USGA would NOT be going to Chambers Bay. The current "Where will the next Open on Long Island be held" thread certainly highlights the need and desirability for the USGA to conduct its great championships throughout a more diverse selection of locations. Having an ability to do this at Municipal golf courses will allow for this to happen, and without Bethpage it would not have.
2- The Bethpage success enables communities and cities such as San Antonio with Brackenridge Park to both contemplate and follow through on their own projects.
3- It even allows a group of GCA fanatics to dream that a public golf course in a Philadelphia park might one day actually be returned to its former glory...

So Mike, how would one quantify that in terms of the economic question?

[David Druzisky]

mike,

I think all of the successful business (not golf business) people on this site would surprised at how little data is produced and made available pertaining to the breakdown of where monies are spent and the distribution of time and resources.  I am not saying all facilities and operation are this way but in general there isn't much.  Withthis said I think many clubs and courses have a very difficult time with applying value to renovation and quite often they don't pull the trigger.

Also, a good percentage of renovations are more about replacement, repair or upgrade of infrastructure and materials.  On many of those facilities they have ignored good business of putting away reserves based on a mapped out schedule to address such items and everything is falling apart.  I would say with many of those a ROI can be calculated based on improved efficiency as long as the course managers understand their own numbers and how to apply them.  On some items you may not get a direct return but the work still needs to be done.  Does any business get a return on replacing a leaking roof?

It is the design changes or restoration efforts that are much harder to qualify.  I think Jeff and the others above hit some key points.  There does need to be a bit of a story involved and the creation of buzz to get customers interested again and then as also said they better be impressed.  But then again, that is just like any other service or entertainment industry endeavor.  You start with an understanding of the market and your place in it and line everything up you need to hit your mark.   

Where many renovation efforts get in trouble is when they go beyond value or negative on a rate of return.  Some of the dollars I have heard throughout the years that have been spent on renovations have been crazy big to the point where I wonder how they can even spend that much.

[Dunlop_White]

THE ECONOMICS OF TRADITION:

Club members too often underestimate the value of tradition and heritage. Tradition is a time-acquired asset, which clubs should nurture and exploit. Certainly, a classical golf course is an attraction, but its authenticity makes it one of the most powerful marketing tools available for clubs today. Donald Ross, for instance, is a brand name of great reverence. Ross left behind an impressive legacy of 418 courses, where 100-plus USGA national championships have been played.

Today, 25 Ross thoroughbreds are ranked in Golfweek’s “Top 100 Classical Courses,” many of which gained this fanfare following
a thoughtful restoration. Golf course restorations also enable clubs to raise initiation fees and enjoy a full membership. Case in point: Carolina Golf Club in Charlotte, N.C., which passed a four-phase restoration plan in April 2005.

“Since that announcement, we’ve raised initiation fees from $9,000 to $16,000,” says club president, B.T. Atkinson. “We believe
our restoration was a major contributing factor for all 112 members who have joined in the last eighteen months.” Today, Carolina GC has reached its cap of 550 members — and boasts a short waiting list, a telltale sign that the golf club is thriving.

This phenomenon has been well documented at many other Ross venues around the country. Raleigh Country Club (NC) once faced an uncertain future, but has prospered on the heels of a Ross restoration. More recently, Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro, N.C., was able to attract 100-plus new members just on the promise of new Ross beginnings coupled with a PGA Tour event.

There are numerous examples where drastic modernizations have had the opposite impact by diluting the brand name. This strongly
implies that tradition still has dominance and relevance in the modern-day marketplace. Small wonder clubs throughout the Carolinas are buying into classical golf course restoration and fortifying their “brand names.”

This is a little piece I wrote for the Carolinas Golf Magazine a few years ago. I didn't get into municipal restorations and their revenues, but from what I understand, The Wilmington Muni prospered following Ron Prichard's restoration with the help of The Ross Society.

I however am seeing all this momentum compromised by the current economy.

[J_McKenzie]

Mike,

I can give you one recent success story from a project that Love Golf Design was involved with- a private Ross course from 1939.

Brunswick CC in Brunswick Ga. is a Ross design (9 holes original, 9 holes redesigned) from the late 1930's.  BCC had never been touched and for most of its history had been pretty much a break even club.  Membership numbers prior to the renovation were right around 280-300 with no initiation fee and dues around 150/month.  When the board voted in 2006 to move ahead with the restoration/renovation of the course and the building of a new clubhouse , the membership dropped to 130.  However, once the old clubhouse was torn down and work began on the golf course- community interest grew and by the time the course reopened exactly a year to the day after it was closed, Nov. 1, 2007, the membership was up to around 400.  This was with a new initiation fee and higher dues.  Since then, the economy has slowed momentum somewhat, but the membership has continued to grow and currently sits at 525.  The new clubhouse opened this past weekend and this should bring in additional new members.  Before and after photos of the greens and of the clubhouse construction can be seen at the BCC website- www.brunswickcountryclub.com.

John

 

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon,

How many Bob Marley joints do you have to smoke to get those corners on the tees with a fairway mower?

I don't smoke Bradley

Cutting square corners with a sit on mower is not that difficult when you no how to, in fact its probably easier than with a hand mower.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm really encouraged by some of the answers I'm seeing here.

So some of you have really seen a backstory revenue "bounce", all based on a course aggressively marketing a special history that is being recaptured as a way to create buzz?

[Kyle Harris]

I'm really encouraged by some of the answers I'm seeing here.

So some of you have really seen a backstory revenue "bounce", all based on a course aggressively marketing a special history that is being recaptured as a way to create buzz?

Mike,

What were the results in terms of rounds played in other area courses that underwent a similar change?

[Mike Sweeney]

http://www.bobbyweed.com/Article/gw.pdf

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think the golfing public. in particluar the "regulars" at any given public course, are more concerned with "playabilty" than a "restored" classic course. To attract new golfers to a "restored" course that once had a big name and may have been  one of the few decent courses in town may be a longshot. Assume that very few of the new golfers you hope to attract know nothing about the course's history There now may be too many options in more geographically convenient locations to get those golfers to  play a "restored" classic. Would the "restored" classic have a decent clubhouse to go with the new course? That's more money added to the equation. You mentioned Papago. The "old" clubhouse was deemed to be not functional for the new course and was demolished rather than spruced up. A new clubhouse will be built.

[Dunlop_White]

I'm glad to hear that Brunswick CC, a Ross design that was "restored" by Love Design, is now thriving.

Donald Ross is a "brand name". Restorations of Donald Ross courses help fortify that brand name. It has become one of the best marketing tools a club can utilize. But let me qualify this. It may only apply to this particular brand name, Donald Ross?

Why you ask? Recently, the city of Winston-Salem declined an opportunity to restore a Perry Maxwell muni. For starters, The City Council did not know who Maxwell was?  Another course down the road became all excited about restoring their Ellis Maples' design. I helped them realize that Maples was not (yet?) a brand name and for them not to expect the boost Ross restorations naturally receive.

There are too many Ross success stories here not to call this a phenomenon.

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