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Chris Cupit

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Last Thursday I played ANGC :D  I have been fortunate enough to play on a couple of previous occasions when I was in college when the course was about 400 yards shorter and the equipment considerably different (wood for woods, steel, 384 tour balata and forged v grooves)

Unlike previous rounds this was after the course officially closed--last week after closing ANGC has a week long period of "outings" where volunteers and vendors can play.  I was the guest of one of the vendors.  It is a much different round than when played with a member--carts (gas no less!), no caddies, no idea of distances other than yardage to the front of greens (actually that was great) and a much more casual look--certainly not what many would imagine.  Two quick examples--on the range I was shocked to see one guest in an untucked shirt with two blue baseball batting glove on :o  Also, while enjoying a cold beer on the upstairs veranda I was also surprised to see one player had used a pull cart for his round.  Not that there is anything wrong with that......I just didn't expect to see it at AGNC.

Anyway, I had a couple of thoughts/observations and would love to hear some feedback.

I will say I had been to a couple of Masters tournaments after the tremendous lengthening and tree planting and like many felt both were a bit much.  For the most pat I think I was wrong.

#1  OK.  I think this hole was better and would be improved at a slightly shorter distance.  The old fairway bunker tempted the player to try and fly it to open up a far superior angle into the green.  The new bunker doesn't resemble anything on the course (not even #10) and the "noses" of sand and squiggly design make it play much differently than any other bunker on the course.  It doesn't seem to fit.  I realize the players hit the ball incredible distances but the day I watched the Masters this year, very few could even REACH the bunker much less try and fly it for the best approach.

Except for maybe a handful of players there is absolutely no strategic options for #1--hit it anywhere between bunker and trees and fire away at green.

#2  The added length of 15 yards or so didn't make much of a difference.  Still a very reachable hole and the added length was needed.

#4  Length needed to get a longer iron in the best player's hands.  A real beast.

#5  Longer and I think the two fairway bunkers are simply too deep.  Even from the tips the longest hitters can not get beyond the bunkers and only bring in the narrowest section of the fairway by hitting driver.  Tiger for instance would hit 3 wood and lay back.

#7  Not as narrow as I thought although clearly very tight and in 25 years the pine trees will really squeeze you.  I watched a lot of players have to hit 4-6 irons into this green and that's just crazy.  That green has no depth and plenty of contour and needs to be approached with no more than a 7 iron.

#8, #9, #10  Length needed and the holes play much like in the past.

#11  I was wrong!  Trees planted down the right are not too much.  Still an ample fairway even from the 505 tee.  As long and straight as the ball goes now it is a very fair hole for those guys.

#13, #14  Length again needed to restore shot values.  Tee shot on #13 is far scarier than you think.  While you can bail right to hit it anywhere near where you must to reach in two it is a difficult drive--particulalry as it is harder to curve a driver. 

#15  Again, I was wrong!  Added length needed to keep it from becoming a joke and the tree planting on the right is not excessive.  Don't get me wrong, they planted a ton of trees but there is still plenty of room to drive the ball.  Overhead picks from Golf Digest and the like make the "slot"look narrower than it really is.

#16  The shot Tiger hit--unbelievable :o  give me any left hole location over front or back right any day.  Anything on the right side of the green is brutal.

#17  This hole is much narrower and I do think they planted too many trees down the left side.  I promise you this, in the greatest Masters ever (1986) neither Nicklaus or Norman can do anything other than pitch out if the trees were there then.  Imagine that--Tom Kite wins the '86 Masters ;)

#18  Again this was a hole that is a tough drive but did not seem as narrow actually playing it.  Another lengthening that was needed and the tee has enough flexibility to respond to weather/wind conditions.

A great day :D and eye opening in terms of seeing what the players face today versus 25 years ago.  I can't believe I am saying this but the recent changes (aside from the retarded bunker on #1) are pretty much right on in keeping the challenge appropriate for today's player. ;
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 12:58:24 AM by Chris Cupit »

Drew Standley

Re: My day at Augusta
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 12:32:05 AM »
Chris, thanks for the post. 

What did you hit into 15? 



Matt Varney

Re: My day at Augusta
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 12:32:58 AM »
Chris,

I'm jealous and I agree with many of your comments about the changes to the course to keep up with the modern game.  Many purists and fans of the Masters feel the course should be left alone - no way because it would ruin the tradition and the quality of the test the course requires for the best player to win.  If ANGC was still 6,900 yards with the new drivers and balls that fly a mile high and straight as an arrow it would change everything and scoring would be regularly in the mid 60's for many players.

On a personal note - all you had to do was call me and I would have gladly been your caddy for the day enjoying the walk with you!

Matt

Chris Cupit

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Re: My day at Augusta
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 12:49:07 AM »
Chris, thanks for the post. 

What did you hit into 15? 




After a good drive I hit my 19 degree hybrid.  I had 221 to the front edge and the hole was back and slightly left.  I made a good swing and the ball flew high and landed about fifteen feet right of the hole.  Only problem was the ball carried into the back fringe and the ball rolled over the back and pretty far down the hill near one of the pine trees.  I bumped a GW back into the hill and left the ball about 8-9 feet away but about two inches from the green still in the fringe.  I rolled the birdie putt about four feet by and missed my par putt :(  I did birdie 16 and 17 though ;)

Chris Cupit

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Re: My day at Augusta
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 12:57:04 AM »
Chris,

I'm jealous and I agree with many of your comments about the changes to the course to keep up with the modern game.  Many purists and fans of the Masters feel the course should be left alone - no way because it would ruin the tradition and the quality of the test the course requires for the best player to win.  If ANGC was still 6,900 yards with the new drivers and balls that fly a mile high and straight as an arrow it would change everything and scoring would be regularly in the mid 60's for many players.

On a personal note - all you had to do was call me and I would have gladly been your caddy for the day enjoying the walk with you!

Matt

I was really surprised about how the course played.  At 6900 the only way to keep scores above 270 would be to gimmick things up with the set up.   It would have been neat to see a Masters ball that maybe could have slowed down the "need" to have 7500 yard courses to test the best players.  It's a shame the governing bodies so completely abdicated their roles re: controlling equipment and maintaining a game that our parents and grandparents would recognize.  Anyway,  it was a fun day. 

If I could I'd sneak about 200 friends on the course to play ;D  Our group did see Chairman Payne and Tom Fazio drive by on #13 so it certainly wasn't the time to do anything remotely "sneaky" ;)

BTW, the clubhouse is an absolute museum and our group must have spent two hours just reading and browsing around--we were truly kids in a candy store!

Paul Nash

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 06:56:25 AM »
Chris - add me to the jealous list - would love to play. A guy from our club went there just before the Masters began - stands were up etc. Haven't spoke to him properly but I know he loved it and shot 80 (off 7) and there are now lots of yellow tee shirts (caps etc) on him and friends!

Paul Jones

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 07:58:46 AM »
Chris,

Were you allowed to take pictures?

Thanks for sharing and making us all jealous.  Great write up.

Paul
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jim Tang

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 10:29:48 AM »
Chris -

Wow, what an experience.  What were the green speeds like?  Obviously, they are crazy fast when the Masters is taking place.  I wonder, do they keep the greens pretty fast the rest of the year?  Also, how many groups do they get out there in a day?  It can't be very many.

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 11:10:07 AM »
The day I played groups of four teed off from 7:30 until 3:00!  We went at 8:22 and played in exactly four hours so pace was good.  They were mowing fairways and greens that morning when we arrived and I am guessing the greens rolled around an 11.  They were very smooth and given the slope you could easily have a putt get away from you. 

Hole locations were also unusual if all one is used to is the tournament.  #10 was way back right and #18 was way back left on a little knob.  I watched a person with an 8 or 9 foot putt on 18 miss under the hole and a little strong and the ball ended up 20 feet away!  Hole location on #5 was down below in front of the huge mounds.  I punched out from the right trees thinking I made a good play butt I was hole high on the fringe left and had an elephant between me and the hole.  If I putt at it I can not keep it on the green.  I chipped 15 feet left--actually 16 feet left and the ball hung up on the hill >:(  A foot right and the ball trickles right and (maybe) stays on the green about 10 feet away.

You could take pics but I didn't bring a camera.  I did have my cell phone but I was too caught up in the moment.  My pics from the veranda are a bit blurry and mostly of my thumb ;)

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 02:19:10 PM »
My pics from the veranda are a bit blurry and mostly of my thumb ;)

I can't imagine why.  I'm sure a good southern gentleman like yourself stuck with the sweet tea. 

Thanks for posting your thoughts.  Imagine what you could have sold that 3 on 17 for during the final round.

Chris Cupit

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 05:22:42 PM »
My pics from the veranda are a bit blurry and mostly of my thumb ;)

I can't imagine why.  I'm sure a good southern gentleman like yourself stuck with the sweet tea. 

Thanks for posting your thoughts.  Imagine what you could have sold that 3 on 17 for during the final round.

They spike their tea!

It's funny about the three on seventeen.  The night before we had dinner with Kenny Perry's cousin Scott Perry and he had some interesting insights.  Topic of the night though was the rules situation with Kenny where the lie goes from looking pretty badf to looking pretty good. 

I was supposed to shoot Scott and e-mail about the day--I think I'll leave off the birdie on 17 (I chipped in from about a foot off the green) :D


Chip Gaskins

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 05:34:35 PM »
Chris-

Great story.  What tees did you play?

Do you think there have been a lot of trees added on the left of #15?

If you played the back tees (you must be a huger hitter  ;D ) how did #18 play?  It seems really hard to thread that needle.

Chip

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 05:46:01 PM »
My pics from the veranda are a bit blurry and mostly of my thumb ;)

I can't imagine why.  I'm sure a good southern gentleman like yourself stuck with the sweet tea. 

Thanks for posting your thoughts.  Imagine what you could have sold that 3 on 17 for during the final round.

They spike their tea!

It's funny about the three on seventeen.  The night before we had dinner with Kenny Perry's cousin Scott Perry and he had some interesting insights.  Topic of the night though was the rules situation with Kenny where the lie goes from looking pretty badf to looking pretty good. 

I was supposed to shoot Scott and e-mail about the day--I think I'll leave off the birdie on 17 (I chipped in from about a foot off the green) :D

Good stuff.  How did you score compared to your other rounds?

Chris Cupit

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 06:11:42 PM »
Chip,

We played a mixture--7 holes from the member tees and 11 from the masters tees.  We played the back tees on 2,3,4,6, 11,12,13,15,16,17,and 18.  They frown on playing the tips and my "host" did not want to play every hole all the way back.

#15 we played the tips and the wind was pretty insignificant.  I did hit a solid drive.  I noticed the trees on the right but did not notice them so much on the left.  My second round there years ago I hooked it so badly I was in some bushes between 14 and 15 :( and maybe because I was excited about my second shot I didn't notice much.

#18 is loooong but not quite as tight as I was worried about.  We played about 10-15 yards back from the front of the tips.  I am guessing instead of 465 we played it at 440-445.  However, by then the wind really picked up.  I crunched my drive and ended up just short of the fairway bunker complex.  I had 160 to the front of the green and guessed that I had 195 or so to the flag.  I hit a pretty good three iron and still came up short (and right).  I pitched over the right bunker to about 10 feet and missed >:(

Kyle,

My game is definitely devolving :(  My first round ever there was a 69 and the following year a 77.  This year it was 79 and not from the tips as in years past.  I did win $50 on my break 80 bet though ;)

« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 06:34:10 PM by Chris Cupit »

Anthony Butler

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2009, 06:44:48 PM »

My game is definitely devolving :(  My first round ever there was a 69 and the following year a 77.  This year it was 79 and not from the tips as in years past.  I did win $50 on my break 80 bet though ;)


Chris,

Great details on the course, the recent changes and how it affects the way mortals play it.

Looking at your scores, however, I am glad you were otherwise occupied when I played at Rivermont a couple of years ago.

 P.S. Your description of the scene around the clubhouse sounded like the caddies from Bushwood GC had invaded Augusta National.
Next!

Adam Clayman

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Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2009, 07:17:53 PM »

#11  I was wrong!  Trees planted down the right are not too much.  Still an ample fairway even from the 505 tee.  As long and straight as the ball goes now it is a very fair hole for those guys.



As I recall the discussion, "Too much" was not the case. Planting trees exactly where the best angle into the green lies, is no way to set an example of an intelligent renovation decision.

Of course you could always play it the way Lefty did this last Master's Sunday. Plinko

Quote
#15  Again, I was wrong!  Added length needed to keep it from becoming a joke and the tree planting on the right is not excessive.  Don't get me wrong, they planted a ton of trees but there is still plenty of room to drive the ball.  Overhead picks from Golf Digest and the like make the "slot"look narrower than it really is.

A joke? Is that what people think? Perhaps assigning it as a par 3 would get there attention and place the joke back on them? How does a number (par 5) determine if the GCA is top notch stuff?
Chris no tone here, just pointing out that prevailing mindsets can get caught up in the wrong details, such as, the value of par.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 07:39:04 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2009, 09:00:49 PM »
Adam,

I'm not so sure the trees on 11 (the area where the new trees are that is) are where the best angle to the green are.  Having played both sets of tees I think to end up where the trees are planted on 11 would have to be the result of a big slice or a push that got through a shoot of trees.

Now I am nowhere the player of the guys in the event but I can tell you the last shot I want is one coming from the far right hitting TOWARD the water on the left and long.  I'd much prefer coming straight at the green or even ACROSS the front left of the green moving AWAY from the water.  My recent tee shot was on the right edge of the fairway and I would have rather been 10-15 feet left for the angle to suit my eye.  I had a shot of 202 to the hole and hit a 5 iron down the hill.  I would be average length at best and for many of those guys I saw their drives end up well past where I was.  For those guys assuming they have a 6 iron to 9 iron approach (Phil hit wedge in one day I think!) ANYWHERE in the fairway is fine and (sorry to say) angles don't matter for those guys :o  That fairway is still 35-40 yards wide which is plenty wide for those guys today.

As to #15 I think it's a fun hole to watch and play although I do not think it is necessarily great architecture.  What "makes" the hole is the length--the correct length and the crowned green with water in front and behind that makes a second shot with a wood to 4 iron very dicey.  Before there was soooo much room to the right that you could really try and play a big slinging hook with no penalty for hanging it out.  Also at the old length of 500 yards and a 100 yard fairway the old hole meant under normal conditions the biggest hitters could hit 6 irons to wedges in.  For a hole with its unique history leaving it undefended and to the mercy of wedges for second shots does qualify as a "joke" of a par 5 to me. 

The narrower fairway is still 30-35 yards wide and it is still a shortish par 5. 

As to par not mattering, well, I agree to play your best it shouldn't.  But reality is that par plays a huge psychological role for 99.9% of players (even and in some cases especially for the pros).  In fact the psychology of ANGC is central to much of the way the course is played.  To ignore this forgets that the game isn't played by robots but by people in the heat of battle at war with their emotions, thoughts and all kinds of stuff they should absolutely be ignoring but cant.  #15 succeeds not because it's great architecture on paper (or maybe even at all) but because of the intangibles and psychological threats imposed.  If a player can hit an 8 iron--wedge in after a drive that had few constraints placed upon it, then the hole loses something.

More than most courses ANGC gets you thinking too much and not just playing they way you know how.

Again, I'm not thrilled that the course had to make all their changes but I don't see what choice they had and for the most part I felt they played pretty well.  What did you think of the new fairway bunker on #1--that seemed way more out of place than anything else to me. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:56:32 PM by Chris Cupit »

Jim Nugent

Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 12:20:40 AM »
Chris, what do you make of the complaints from guys like Jack and Arnie? 

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: My day at Augusta--the changes are for the good (mostly)
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 01:17:16 AM »
Chris, what do you make of the complaints from guys like Jack and Arnie? 

Old guys are always pining away about the good 'ole days ;)

I think there are some mistakes--#1 bunker and I think the hole is too long and has taken away strategic interest from the drive, Bunkers on #5 may be too deep, #7 a classic drive and pitch hole has been completely altered and I think is too long and I think the tree plantings on #17 are too much.

I think I agree with them that the game of golf would have been better off if the equipment could have stayed the same and the "field" on which we play could likewise stay the same.  Yes, this means steel, wood, v-grooves, old balls et al. and "championship courses" from 6800-7000 yards long.  (In 1986 in the book courses of the PGA Tour Indian Wells played at 6400 yards.  Of course scores were low there but imagine what average scores would be on that course today!)

It's a shame the game and the way it was played is fundamentally different today and requires if not less skill then certainly different skills.  Worse the game and the upkeep of its "fields" is more expensive and less accessible than ever. 

It's hard to imagine any two people who have seen and experienced more changes at ANGC than Arnie and Jack but the Masters and golf course can not stay relevant to today's best players and be playable for them any more. :( :(  But had the original course built in 1931 (and that was testing for Jones and his era) not evolved then either Arnie and Jack and of course today's players would be shooting scores that would make a mockery of the course. 

 The ammo has way changed and so must the targets. 

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