Was Wilson a good enough golfer that he would have been considered an "expert" as you know the term was bandied about in the early days of golf in this country?
As you know, Merion reported in January 1911 that "experts" were at work preparing plans for the new course.
That seems quite a stretch. I beleive it is more likely that the report was puffing a bit. Boards have been lying, covering, and misrepresenting to the mebership since Og and Nog formed the Cavemans Club
I don't get this John? Why is it that when we don't like what the sources say we just assume they were puffing or exaggerating or lying or too old or grieving or whatever, and then fill in whatever we want the meaning to be.
- H.J. Whigham, a well respected author, war correspondent, friend and adviser to presidents and prime ministers, magazine editor, was just a blubbering sentimental fool and a "fucking liar" when he listed Merion East as a CBM course.
- Francis was all of 69 years old when he wrote about the land swap, so he most of been confused by old age and mistaken in his recollection.
- Hugh Wilson was just being modest when he said his committee was in way over their heads, and just being gracious when he praised CBM and HJW for bailing them out.
- Alan Wilson was just being gracious too when he praised M&W.. (And Alan couldn't have meant what he said about CBM helping with the lay out so we'll just doctor the record and take that out.)
- Robert Lesley in 1914? Just gracious.
Findlay in 1912? Confused and a horrible writer, so ignore him.
- AWT in 1912? Couldn't have meant what he seems to be saying.
- And Cuyler couldn't have meant what he wrote in his Nov. letter to Evans about Lloyd acting on behalf of HDC.
- Lesley couldn't have meant what he said in his July 1, 1910 letter to the Merion's Board. It was probably just propaganda.
- And now the Board's announcement about the experts at work? He was just exaggerating. More propaganda.
- And the list goes on.
It seems that many must think that it wasn't just Whigham . . . virtually
everyone (including the men of Merion)who ever wrote anything contrary to the Merion legend must have been "fucking liar!"
Call me crazy, but I have an alternative approach. Instead of repeatedly manipulating the source material to fit with the Merion legend, why don't we try to take the source material at face value and see where that gets us? Sometime before January 7, 1911, Merion's board announced that experts were at work planning the golf course, which in length, soil, and variety of hazards would rank among the best courses in the country.
_______________________________________________________________
Mike would have us believe that Hugh Wilson and his committee were the experts, but the more he tries to prove that Hugh Wilson was an expert at planning golf courses, the more it becomes evident that he was far from it.
1. Hugh Wilson himself knew he was not an expert. He wrote that he was in over his head and that he and his committee did not know anything more about this stuff than the average golfing club member. I'll take Hugh Wilson's word over Mike Cirba's speculations any day.
2. Merion also knew that the likes of Hugh Wilson were not experts when it came to designing golf courses-- that is why they brought in such men as CB Macdonald, HJ Whigham and HH Barker! There is a reason they did not go to Wilson, Francis, etc. to figure out if the land was adequate. They wanted expert advice and M&W were the foremost experts! There is a reason why Merion sent Wilson and his committee to NGLA to learn how to lay out the course-- M&W were experts and the men of Merion knew no more than the average golfing clubmen. And there is a reason that Hugh Wilson was not in charge of determining the final routing. Again, Merion wanted an expert to be in charge, and Hugh was not that expert.
3. Given that Merion had been turning to real experts from before the time they even purchased the land, it is absurd to think they suddenly decided that that a good club golfer who had been on the green committee at his college course around the turn of the century was expert enough.
4. Mike is misrepresenting how this term "expert" was used around this time. Ask him to come up with the examples to prove that any good but not great golfer was considered enough of an expert to design a course rivaling the best in the country. While he states it as if it were common knowledge, as is so often the case ou will find that he cannot back up his claim with the facts..
5. Mike's description of Hugh Wilson's golfing accomplishments undermines his own case. This guy was by no means an expert golfer, and was even less an expert on designing first class golf courses. If these absurd attempts to bolster Wilson's level of expertise prove anything, it is that Mike is pretty much delusional when it comes to Hugh Wilson, and will write virtually anything to try and make his case.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Mike, your posts are getting more and more absurd. Let's come back down to life. I answered your question, now you answer mine.
What exactly did Hugh Wilson do between being appointed sometime in January 1911 and seeding in September 1911. Do you think he did something beyond what I wrote so what is it? And please provide me with your sources for everythign you claim he did?
While your at it, perhaps you can explain to me how Hugh Wilson came up with some of the design ideas he must have had . . . For just a few examples, why did he decide to attempt a replica of the Eden Green on the 15th hole? And how did he plan to create a replica if he had never even seen the hole? And why did he choose to stick the tee back behind the out of bounds/corner on what is now the 6th hole?
And by the way Mike, you should be careful the way you are throwing Wilson under the bus by dismissing all of his efforts at Merion as merely check list stuff! Seems a pretty outrageous way try and make your point about the design, becasuse if it turns out you are wrong, then you have nothing left to fall back on, and will have given him absolutely no credit at all. Surely he deserves better from his most loyal fan!
_____________________
Lastly Mike, I noticed that not even you will touch my offer of a friendly wager! You've supposedly seen the minutes and not even you will stand by TEPaul's transcription as accurate. That ought to tell the rest of us something.