[Dan Herrmann]

How good do you think TPC Sawgrass is?

I was watching The Players yesterday, and I really am starting to appreciate the architecture out there.  It's not minimalistic at all, but I think it's ability to test every part of a player's game is it key to success.

What do you think?  Is it great architecture or does it miss the mark?

[Andy Troeger]

I think its really good--for a flat site there's a good variety of holes and shots required. The par five 11th is one of my all-time favorite holes. The finishing stretch is great for tournament golf, but they're pretty good holes too generally. The 17th obviously is love it or hate it for most people, but I think it deserves credit for being the original even if I don't always like the replicas!

[RJ_Daley]

I think it yields a good tournament every year that matches the talent of the top players who are qualified to play there.  It provides some good opportunities for final day theatrics with many consequences of player actions from mistakes to options in strategy undertaken as risks and rewards.  So, I guess that is the ultimate test of GCA, and this particular course is tailored for the top touring pros.  I'd have to leave it to my fellow hacks who have played it to comment on how the architecture fits in with their expectations and criteria for what constitutes great design for those not top touring pros.

[Mike Hendren]

Based solely on one play, I think it is fantastic.  Surprisingly playable from the appropriate tees (even I finished 5-3-5) with as much short game interest as any modern course I've played.  Relatively demanding off the tee, however.  With the exception of the par three third, the opening stretch is rock solid. 

An absolute must-play for the architectural enthusiast.

Bogey

[Jason Topp]

Based on one play, I think it is outstanding and suprisingly playable for the average player. 

[Bill_McBride]

#17 is really a pretty simple hole - from the white tees!  The angle of play is directly into the backstop that is the widest part of the green.  From the tips, the angle is across that slope and is frightening.     The design of that hole alone tells you what a good course it is.

I do think it's playing easier these days with so much shaved grass around the greens.  In the earlier days all that was deep stuff.  The real key is hitting to the right places off the tee so you don't have any blind approaches into those smallish greens.

[Patrick Kiser]

OT...

I swear I saw G. Shackleford just behind the 17th tee kneeling to take a pic today.  Sure looked like him.

[Trey Stiles]

Disclaimer : I have not played it

However , from the TV view , it looks like a wonderful example of playing with the golfer's mind ... You SEE all that trouble left , then you start blocking it  right , then you start guiding it ... before you know it , your playing army golf and your toast.

From my chair it looks positively brilliant !

[PThomas]

very very good...certainly one of the best modern courses

[Ron Csigo]

very very good...certainly one of the best modern courses

Couldn't agree with you more Trey.  Depending on the tees that you chose to play, it works from being playable from the whites to a downright bloodbath from the tips.  The tee shots from the back tees are flat out claustrophoebic and some of the approach shots appear like your aiming for a target that's roughly the size of a car hood (except #17).  One of the most intimidating courses I've played tee to green.

[John Nixon]

My understanding of the assignment to Mr. Dye was to build a course primarily to test the best of the PGA Tour professionals, and accommodate large crowds at the same time while affording those crowds the opportunity to see more of the action than was typical for a course.

If that's the case, then IMHO it's one of the most successful modern designs there is. I don't think I'd say "good", I'd say rather it fulfills the intent of its creators brilliantly.

[Dan Herrmann]

Great comments, gents.

For my money, I'd say that 16 is the best hole on the course.  What do you think?

[Ron Farris]

I remember walking down hole #18 while it was originally under construction as a turf student at Lake City.  Seeing hole #17 at the time was somewhat perplexing as the sleepers were in, but not cut off.  As a student I cherrish the trip to play the course with Brian Silva, as he was our professor.  When we played, if you hit the ball where Tiger did today on Hole #14, one would have been deep in Lovegrass and absolutely have no chance at reaching the green. 
Below is a ticket from a long time ago:

[Gary Slatter]

from only two rounds I would say it is one of the best tests for the modern golf professional air game. 
Sometimes the bunkers are the safest targets, the forward and middle tees are too far foward, it is a completely different course. 
It is one of the worst looking contrived courses from the air, but from player level it is superb.
It is easier now with less rough close to the greens (altho McIlroy may disagree).

[Kevin Pallier]

very very good...certainly one of the best modern courses

Paul

I think it's over-rated - way too much sand and what's with the moguls ?.

I grant it has some interesting holes 11 and 16 through 18 but there's plenty of better modern day courses around.

I'd rather play Barnbougle, National Moonah, St Andrews Beach and Kenendy Bay over it for starters.

[Kyle Harris]

I remember walking down hole #18 while it was originally under construction as a turf student at Lake City.  Seeing hole #17 at the time was somewhat perplexing as the sleepers were in, but not cut off.  As a student I cherrish the trip to play the course with Brian Silva, as he was our professor.  When we played, if you hit the ball where Tiger did today on Hole #14, one would have been deep in Lovegrass and absolutely have no chance at reaching the green. 
Below is a ticket from a long time ago:

I thought the only thing to come out of Shamokin was tobacco.

[/pun]

[Carl Rogers]

As theatre for the top 200 in the world, the course is terrific.

How many of you would want to play it everyday???  Would it become a bit tedious?

For those of you that have played the course, how you measure the green speed of the day of your round(s) and the speed at the TPC?

[Andy Troeger]

I don't think Sawgrass would become tedious in the slightest. It's difficult, but its strategic and requires thinking on just about every hole. One can argue the 17th is somewhat out of place with the rest of the holes in that its pretty much "execution only." Its perhaps a bit too difficult, but so are most of the other courses in the top 100.

I'll agree with those that say its one of the best modern courses and think its rightfully one of the top 50 in the USA. I'm guessing I'd put it around #30.

[PThomas]

I don't think Sawgrass would become tedious in the slightest. It's difficult, but its strategic and requires thinking on just about every hole. One can argue the 17th is somewhat out of place with the rest of the holes in that its pretty much "execution only." Its perhaps a bit too difficult, but so are most of the other courses in the top 100.

well said Andy.. I wish it was my home course!

[Matthew Runde]

What I like about it is that hazards frequently cross the ideal line of play.  Add to that the fact that some of the longer hazards are angled, and the course becomes even more strategic.

[Ben Sims]

Andy and Paul,

I have to disagree if only slightly.  Yes, TPC Sawgrass would be cool if it was my home course.  I've only played it once while on vacation in college (I'm trying to politely say I was hungover).  As neat as the experience was of seeing my ball land in water or sand on 1 of every 3 shots I wouldn't call the course "strategic".  In fact--and I may get schwacked for saying this--it seemed that day as I played it; that it was a hugely heroic style of golf course. Needless to say, it wasn't playing near as fast as this week at the Players, but it wasn't soggy either.  Trying to hold those greens and fairways with anything but a perfect effort was tough.  I never felt as though I had any option of shot other than to execute as Mr. Dye intended the tour pro to execute. 

In its current role as a tough test of golf for the players and a good place to watch golf for patrons, it works.  But strategic? I don't know guys, it just doesn't provide enough options.

[Tim Liddy]

The best lesson to me of TPC is its emphasis on shot values. It places a challenge on tee shots and approach shots with less emphasis on putting, a different approach than the C&C concept of defending par at the green. I can understand why Ben Crenshaw has never liked the golf course. This type of golf course design can be tedious for the average club golfer but a joy for the better player who can challenge his shot making skills.

[Andy Troeger]

Ben,

I think I tend to correlate "heroic" as a type of strategy--perhaps more than most do. I certainly agree TPC Sawgrass has some of that nature to it, as do a lot of course that I enjoy playing.

Tim,
Great post--I think that does get to the point of why some like Sawgrass better than others.

[Carl Rogers]

As I asked .....  For those of you that have played the course, how you measure the green speed of the day of your round(s) and the speed at the TPC?

[Andy Troeger]

Carl,
I think they were pretty reasonable--certainly not like they are today. Probably around 9-10. Course was in good shape--played in December 2007.

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