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Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2009, 04:59:41 PM »
So Obama is to blame for this?

Geez....what a bunch!

Hey...24 hour cable news networks...lets pump it up and panic everyone.  Sorry, but ALL MEDIA these days has a "tabloid" mentality...it's sickening....when did this all start? The OJ trial? The Clinton intern affair?  All I know is the whole lot of them are not worthy of my attention....they seem hell bent on dumbing down, frightening, and manipulating the American public...
Project 2025....All bow down to our new authoritarian government.

Mark Arata

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »
as a person that lived through Katrina, and had friends and co workers at what amounted to ground zero at the Superdome, Bush had absolutly nothing to do with it. The local response was as inept as anything anyone has ever seen. The storm wiped out access a major bridge that made it impossible to route the supplies to the area. No one on the local side thought of anything. They parked the buses 8 miles away from the superdome next to a levee......The city made the call to use the superdome as a shelter of last resort at the last minute, if it wasnt for the fact that we had a football game in the dome 2 days before they called for the evactuation,(which was a day too late, and driven totally by political infighting between the dumb ass mayor and the even dumber ass governor) there would have been zero food or water in the dome for anyone.

I am not saying W was the sharpest knife in the drawer, but it was not his fault that the response was lacking. The feds had to reinevent everything here because the locals did nothing to help themselves.

New Orleans, proud to swim home...........

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2009, 05:02:30 PM »
Lou,
I would challenge you to ever find a time where I said Bush was responsible for Katrina. He and his administration handled the aftermath in a bass akwards fashion, but he surely didn't cause the natural disaster.

You should ask Calderon, no polical leftie, why he closed Mexico. I'll leave you to continue arguing the politics of disease and death, I've had my say.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2009, 05:46:38 PM »
I cannot see any possible politic shenanigans behind this flu 'scare', especially at a time where we need people out and about contributing toward an economic upturn.

So let's see, if creating a virus that kills people and has the effect of destroying any economic recovery could be construed as political, it would have to be laid at the feet of the Republic party, no?

This is as stupid a position as blaming "W" for Katrina.
I'm not much into politics or arguing them....BUT....CDC and World Health can really get some funding here.....as well as well as many other health issues.....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 06:13:18 PM »
Lou,
I would challenge you to ever find a time where I said Bush was responsible for Katrina. He and his administration handled the aftermath in a bass akwards fashion, but he surely didn't cause the natural disaster.

You should ask Calderon, no polical leftie, why he closed Mexico. I'll leave you to continue arguing the politics of disease and death, I've had my say.


Jim,

Certainly you jest!  Though only a few fringe types on your side argued that Bush and Cheney caused global warming as movers in and puppets of the greedy, pollutin' carbon industry- which in turn increased the frequency and strength of violent storms including hurricanes, voila Katrina and Rita- as you do above, your simpaticos made much political hay about New Orleans during and afterwards, hell, even today.

I don't know what Calderon did, nor how and why he did it.  Perhaps he was promised some stimulus funds.  What's an extra one or two trillion dollars today and among friends?

As to the politics of disease and death, it is not me that wants healthcare politicized, nor much of economy nationalized.  I hope my friend Tony Petersen is looking in.  Yes We Can! 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 06:18:50 PM by Lou_Duran »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2009, 06:16:04 PM »
You should ask Calderon, no political leftie...

I have detected the flaw in your thinking... :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2009, 06:38:42 PM »
Gives a whole new perspective to this video.

After all, he is the #2 man in the White House right?

http://vodpod.com/watch/1177723-never-let-a-serious-crisis-go-to-waste-wsj

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2009, 08:22:32 PM »
According to the Wall Street Journal this swine flu outbreak probably started in California....

It's funny, but everyone is all jacked up that we are way over due for another 1918 style pandemic (50 million died world wide)....and they cite how much more global we are now...how travel is an everyday occurrence...blah...blah..blah...and all that is true...BUT...this increased "globalization" also brings better communication and the ability to isolate and shut down a source of an epidemic much quicker and more effectively than they could 100 years ago...

And the latest out of Mexico says the outbreak is easing...so maybe a little fear and some precautions have worked?

 
Project 2025....All bow down to our new authoritarian government.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2009, 08:49:57 PM »
The closing of businesses in Mexico City may have been prudent but doing so in Baja California??? A bit much.

Oh well, perhaps I'll write that book I've been thinking about as it appears we will all have plenty of time on our hands!

$1500/night hotels accustomed to 80% occupancy hovering around 10% now.  :'(

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2009, 09:14:36 PM »
I'm deleting my original remarks as they are unnecessary.

I don't like this thread.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 10:26:25 PM by John Kirk »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2009, 09:16:51 PM »
Mike,
...even if what you are suggesdting is true, why would more dollars to fight disease be terrible?

Lou,
Once again you can't seem to get past your narrow views so you take the political expedient of attacking someone who has a different point of view than yours, and by your own admission you have no idea of what's going on. You don't even know why the president of Mexico did what he did. Maybe that's why I have a different view than you, I actually read about it and have a layman's understanding of the situation.
Once again you are in the lead for the Tail Gunner Joe award, and it's only May 1st. You are slipping though, I thought you might have thrown in something alluding to the fact that today is May Day, that notorious socialistic celebration of the worker.    

George,
Thanks  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2009, 11:46:30 AM »
Jim Kennedy,

Thanks for the  thoughtful analysis I have come to expect from a "broad" thinker like you.  I can just hear you squawk had Bush and his administration pulled off a bonner like this one.  As the link to Dead Fish noted, no crisis should go to waste.

Rearding May 1, the last 100 days have been all May 1.  Chrysler and GM finally nearing the hands of their "rightful" owners is but an early present.  We might be careful what we ask for lest we receive it.

Cheers,

Lou     

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2009, 12:03:10 PM »
Lou...

A "bonner"?  An outbreak of a deadly flu and no response from the government would be what?  A "bonner"???  So it's a gotcha kind of event either way for those people that hate their government....like you!

Fortunately, this particular swine flu doesn't appear to be quite as serious as first thought...but it is interesting to see the local level response to this perceived problem.  For many localities it's an opportunity to test their "readiness"....and I have never met a local government that did not jump at the chance to use all the toys in their arsenal, and put into action all the committees and plans that they formed for such events....and I guess I wonder what that says about us...we seem to spend a great deal of time and money on our fears...real or otherwise.

Project 2025....All bow down to our new authoritarian government.

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2009, 12:04:58 PM »
Gives a whole new perspective to this video.

After all, he is the #2 man in the White House right?

http://vodpod.com/watch/1177723-never-let-a-serious-crisis-go-to-waste-wsj

For you that did not watch the video - its Rob Emanuel saying crisis is an opportunity for the government to do things it normally would not attempt.

This has been SOP for some time now.  Its called  "problem - reaction - solution"

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2009, 12:12:33 PM »
Might be worth contacting some courses/hotels in the UK to see how they weathered the foot-and-mouth thing.

Tough break, Greg. Best wishes, with both health and otherwise.

George,

You are quite right, foot and mouth and indeed mad cow disease (if you remember that) did have an adverse effect on visitor numbers however in terms of visiting golfers they mainly look to play courses that are members courses which are largely run on members subs. Visitor fees are really only icing on the cake.

Believe it or not the credit crunch will probably have a much bigger impact on these clubs as memberships dwindle due to individuals cost cutting.

Niall

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2009, 12:33:18 PM »
While some are pointing to the so-far overblown response to this H1N1 virus, and the predictable manner in which the media jumped on this to add to what seems like an overblown reaction, I am thankful for those so-called CDC and WHO bureaucrats and researcher-epidemiologists that work very hard for very little $$$, after obtaining very high class science educations, to be able to jump into action on any scale you may call overblown merely on the "potential" that this particular outbreak presents.  Make fun of the bureaucracy all you want, but they will be your best friends should one of these pandemics turn ultra virulent (and one of these strains will go crazy one of these times).   And, this isn't over according to some people interviewed in that same media that tend to overblow things; people a lot smarter than I or Lou Duran when it comes to science of this thing.  Some say due to the waning flu season, this could be just an incubator for a real virulent strain to emerge in the real season in fall (just apparently like the 1918 outbreak that did kill 60 million people world wide).  

So if you have your panties in a wad over all this right wing nut-job commentary that is trying to wrap the Obama admin around the notion of some manner of conspiratorial design to take over the entire health care complex with a trojan horse health care scare, just chalk this all up to a good dress rehearsal for a response to the big one, when it does finally come.  Even the Bush admin had to learn something in the live exercise of Katrina, as well as many local and state admins learned how not to do things in such a disaster.   Lets hope that the geeky scientists at the CDC do have a good handle on this one, and that we will have enough innoculations in the fall and they guess the virus morph characteristics of it enough to produce the amount of effective innoculants that would be needed for the population.  

Lou, you need to go back before the last 100 to find where socialism took hold in this country for good.  It started officially on Sept 19, 2008 when Bush admin officials Bernacke and Paulson called the congress leaders in and scarred the crap out of them to spend our future prosperity and started us down the path of socialising all the losses from those 'masters of the capitalism universe' and yet decided to continue to reward themselves for their missdeeds anyway.  I hope you don't have occasion to wish those bonuses would go to the lowly bureaucratic scientists at the CDC, if we all need a medical bailout to just live.  

If I understand the Lou Duran healthcare formula, it is all those diseased viral spreading masses anyway that should have taken personal responsibility for themselves and their unwashed hands and uncovered coughs.   Don't come asking us healthy folks for help.  Let the free market rule and make them pay for their ER visits if they don't have a regular MD, and no place to go because they don't have healthcare.  No soicalism healthcare trojan horses allowed.  If you didn't save for a rainy day and can't afford innoculation, and you don't have a healthcare provider, no flu shot for you! We can only owe our allegiance to the Wall Street free market entreprenuers who will save us with rapid response profiteering to design an innoculant to a pandemic.   Chuck the CDC, WHO, FDA, and all the bureaucratic minions and near socialized government compensated scientists who work for them.  What the hell do they know?  In La Roche, Baxter, Wyeth we trust...  Oh, that's right they don't make vaccine's anymore, it ain't profitable.  We have to rely on Aventis Pasteur, that socialist healthcare and governement quiche eating French company to make our millions of vaccines.  Happy Mayday Lou!   ::) ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2009, 12:39:06 PM »
Actually, that's Rahm Emanuel.  A little trivia for you.

Rahm's brother Ari Emanuel is a Hollywood agent, and the inspiration for the character Ari Gold on "Entourage".

Did I mention I dislike this thread?  I believe I'll close every contribution I make with the statement of how much I detest this thread.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2009, 12:41:44 PM »
But John, it may be our last chance to express political opinion.  I hear the new GCA.com will have a political right-left filter, and any post like mine or Lou's above will be nuked!  Then, what will we do?   ::) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2009, 12:44:15 PM »
Lou,
I thought we had decided on another, earlier thread to not get into political BS with one another? Yet here you go again, trying to start trouble by directing another of your smart-ass replies (#42) at me when I wasn't even talking to you. What the hell is the matter with you? Please, don't 'talk' to me unless you can be civil and non-political.



"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2009, 12:50:07 PM »
Believe me, Dick, it's all I can do to keep from entering the fray.

I certainly don't want to alienate myself from Greg Tallman, who I recently shared a friendly exchange with.  But there's no good reason to tack Obama's name onto his initial thread. Virtually every high-end golf facility is hurting right now, flu symptoms or not.

I hate this thread.   

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2009, 01:06:14 PM »
JK, I hope that the golf facilities and their employees don't have to go through another "toxic" season for all the other reasons of world wide health and financial/economic meltdown pandemics; it is a double whammy for sure.  But one crisis is more of a man made bubble behavior result, and the other is pretty much pure nature.   
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2009, 01:07:11 PM »
Wow!  I am amazed that folks would be against the idea of trying to stop the spread of a virus.  What is the point of having highly trained (at great expense to the public purse I might add) health professionals if we are going to even contemplate ignoring their advice for the opinions of the business sector?  I spose I shouldn't find it surprising - I guess I am slow learner.

John, I too don't like this thread not only because of the insinuations but also because folks seem to prefer risky decision making on the part of our leaders.  I for one have had enough political risk taking with my family's future.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2009, 01:32:01 PM »
Wow!  I am amazed that folks would be against the idea of trying to stop the spread of a virus.  What is the point of having highly trained (at great expense to the public purse I might add) health professionals if we are going to even contemplate ignoring their advice for the opinions of the business sector?  I spose I shouldn't find it surprising - I guess I am slow learner.

John, I too don't like this thread not only because of the insinuations but also because folks seem to prefer risky decision making on the part of our leaders.  I for one have had enough political risk taking with my family's future.

Ciao


It all depends on what you view as risky.

Reasonable minds can disagree. The question is, can anyone on here be reasonable?

I say no.

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2009, 01:41:54 PM »
Wow!  I am amazed that folks would be against the idea of trying to stop the spread of a virus.  What is the point of having highly trained (at great expense to the public purse I might add) health professionals if we are going to even contemplate ignoring their advice for the opinions of the business sector?  I spose I shouldn't find it surprising - I guess I am slow learner.

John, I too don't like this thread not only because of the insinuations but also because folks seem to prefer risky decision making on the part of our leaders.  I for one have had enough political risk taking with my family's future.

Ciao


It all depends on what you view as risky.

Reasonable minds can disagree. The question is, can anyone on here be reasonable?

I say no.

 :)

George

I consider this recent pig flu as somewhat risky.  But that isn't the real issue.  The real issue is can we make it less risky with precautionary behaviour?  I believe the answer to this is yes and if this is the case, I would like the precautionary measures put in place.  The last thing we want to hear about is another cock up by those in a decision making capacity for billions of people.  Better safer than sorrier.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: RIP...
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2009, 01:55:09 PM »
So then where do you draw the line?

Here is my view of situations like this: If your guys are in control, you inherently trust that what they're doing is the right thing. If the other guys are in control, you inherently believe they are making the situation worse WHICHEVER ACTION THEY CHOOSE. (And I use the word "you" generally here, not specifically.)

That's the problem with this site or any other discussion board. We all trust different people. Me, I trust no politicians, and I mean none, exactly zero, to place country before his own political interests.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04