Roddy Ranch GC - Antioch, CA

[Matt_Cohn]

14 at Roddy: Yeah, it's hard.

16 at SL: Picture below, it's the hole running from top right to the semi-island green. About 350, straight downhill from the tee so usually a long iron or hybrid, then a wedge or short iron. I don't mind it. Maybe there was an opportunity for a drivable par 4, or at least a drive and pitch? But I think there are plenty of short, gettable holes there already, and I like the approach shot.

[Mike Benham]

Roddy Ranch is not convenient for all in the Bay Area unfortunately ...

Yeah, none of these courses are... in fact it is quite the pain to get out there from anywhere on SF peninsula no matter which way you go.

Still... it is good golf at a good price... something one does tend to have to travel for in our area.

And how is the wind in the afternoon?

Delta View and Lone Tree are also close by and good value propositions as well. 

[Kalen Braley]

Roddy Ranch is not convenient for all in the Bay Area unfortunately ...

Yeah, none of these courses are... in fact it is quite the pain to get out there from anywhere on SF peninsula no matter which way you go.

Still... it is good golf at a good price... something one does tend to have to travel for in our area.

And how is the wind in the afternoon?

Delta View and Lone Tree are also close by and good value propositions as well. 

I can't imagine its much worse than the 10-15 you get every afternoon in the immediate bay area.  Besides since when did a little wind scare off a tough guy like you. 

[Patrick Kiser]

LOL. On which holes do houses at Shadow Lakes interfere with aggressive lines?

Aha.  Well that was Patrick. I don't really get that either... even about #8.   Man putting houses in play there takes aggressive to a level I sure don't understand.  But I guess that is the closest thing.

Here's one of the holes and I apologize but I don't even remember which hole this was.  That house is too close for comfort in my book if you're going for carrying that bunker.

I guess if you can command a nice power fade then it won't be much of an issue.  Forget the draw obviously.  My tee ball is usually high and straight.  If I mishit it, I'm in trouble with a push / slice here.

[Matt_Cohn]

Yup, that's #8, the one I referred to.

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt - thanks for the pics of 16/17.

I always liked 16... but it plays a LOT better from tees (and given wind) such that trying to drive the green is realistic.  For that reason I usually played up tees on that hole... a forced layup being little fun.  However, even playing it with the forced layup, man that is one scary approach shot in any sort of serious round... and I did play a few club tournaments there... given normal wind, hitting that green does get quite problematic, particularly from downhill lie.

17 works the same also... very tough hole especially in normal wind.



Patrick:  that's 8 in the picture.  Yep, my friend definitely regrets having to put that last house there, as do the people who bought it likely regret being pelted by golf balls.  Still, the more one plays the hole the more one realizes that taking the line you picture is pretty foolish.  The angle is fine from the center or left, and it doesn't play all that much longer... and it's a fairly short hole (but not one you are gonna drive) to begin with.

So I have little problem with it... although yes, that house does get it's share of peltings by slices.

I can't think of any other holes, however, where this is a problem.  My friend was careful as much as he was allowed to keep the houses far back.

TH

[Patrick Kiser]

14 at Roddy: Yeah, it's hard.

16 at SL: Picture below, it's the hole running from top right to the semi-island green. About 350, straight downhill from the tee so usually a long iron or hybrid, then a wedge or short iron. I don't mind it. Maybe there was an opportunity for a drivable par 4, or at least a drive and pitch? But I think there are plenty of short, gettable holes there already, and I like the approach shot.

Matt,

Gosh I really made a point to forget my round there to think it was a par 3  . I'm actually thinking more about the par 3 to the left and below (the 17th).  You basically make it or you don't.  That's back to back and a tad much I'd say...

But yes, in general I'm not a big fan of "do or die" greens like this where you basically have to make it on.  The bail out doesn't look like much either.

What is the saying ... horses for courses  .

[Patrick Kiser]

I can't imagine its much worse than the 10-15 you get every afternoon in the immediate bay area.  Besides since when did a little wind scare off a tough guy like you. 

Liar     

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

That's cool... I just don't think you have 17 correct.  The bailout left and short is huge... I know, in the worst winds that was the aiming point.  Also the green itself is pretty huge... I just don't see this as very close to "do or die."  Oh it's tough enough, for sure... but not do or die, not how I think of that anyway.

16 is much closer to being like that.  But as you see, tons of room to come up short and stay dry on that one also.

So sure, two in row like that would be a bit much... I just don't think they play the same at all.

[Patrick Kiser]

I can't think of any other holes, however, where this is a problem.  My friend was careful as much as he was allowed to keep the houses far back.

TH

I think you're right.  There is one other hole I remember and I think it's the hole below.  I did not even try to bomb it left of the pond.  The hole doesn't even call for it, but I think some of the longer fellas could think about challenging it.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

Yeah, that one is a bit problematic also... but again, there's just zero reason to try to bomb it over that left side... and it would take one hell of a long shot to pull it off.  But yes, those houses also are some my friend regrets being forced to include.  Initial plans were for no houses the golf course side of Presidio Drive... those five were added later....

That's actually a really good hole... downhill again, but an interesting tee shot, many rolls and contours in the fairway, and a very challenging second.

So let's just clarify:  are the houses in play on some holes? Hell yes, regrettably so.  Do they block aggressive lines?  I tought what you meant by that is one had to hit OVER houses to take an aggressive line... that's not true on any hole, I don't think.

TH

[Kevin_Reilly]

Roddy is always on the short list of Bay-Area-except-for-Mike-Benham courses that drain well...when most of the Bay Area courses are wet bogs, Roddy is OK.

[Patrick Kiser]

Patrick:

That's cool... I just don't think you have 17 correct.  The bailout left and short is huge... I know, in the worst winds that was the aiming point.  Also the green itself is pretty huge... I just don't see this as very close to "do or die."  Oh it's tough enough, for sure... but not do or die, not how I think of that anyway.

16 is much closer to being like that.  But as you see, tons of room to come up short and stay dry on that one also.

So sure, two in row like that would be a bit much... I just don't think they play the same at all.

Maybe I'm mistaking the tee for the 17th.  I thought it was as below.  If yes, then I guess at the time I just did not feel good about it.  Sure, it's a short hole and you should get on ... but as mentioned the wind can get up on this and I seem to recall that being the case that winter day we played it.

[John Keenan]

Reading these posts makes me want to go back out and play both Roddy and SL.

Matt hit it that they are very different.  SL is golf in a housing subdivision. Roddy has a very very open feel to it. Admittedly I have not been to SL in a long while and Troon was running it then. My impression of SL, which I played in the fall winter last was it was quite damp. Not sure if it was drainage, too much water or what.

Mr Benham is correct that neither of these are all that easy to get too unless you live in the EB and even then they are a bit of ride. Vasco road or Hwy 4. 

If you are planning on playing that area Roddy is the best choice

Nice to see some of the "lesser" known Bay Are courses get discussed. Next it will be Las Positas

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

No, that picture of 17 is accurate... it's just that it is a fairly short hole, and that area short and left is a pretty decently-sized bailout.

As I see it anyway.  I just never thought of that hole as "do or die."

Is it tough in the wind? Hell yes.  But then one just aims left....



John K - bring it on re Las Positas.  Love that course, for all its warts.

But more sadness to hear about my formerly-beloved Shadow Lakes.. it was NEVER wet when I played it.  Man it was always pretty darn firm and fast, which was one of the big reasons to make the drive.  That being said, Roddy was always more so.

I just tended to play SL more because, well... when one has friends like I had, money was not exactly required.

 

[Patrick Kiser]

Patrick:

I thought what you meant by that is one had to hit OVER houses to take an aggressive line... that's not true on any hole, I don't think.

TH

Tom,

You're nuts     

I'd never even try that.  Maybe the Matt Cohn's, Jon Spaulding's and Bend-it-like-Benham's of the world would.

What I do remember from my round is we got paired with two really strong players (e.g. scratch or thereabouts).  One of the guys had complete control on his trajectory and shapped it at will.  Anyway ... they must have felt sorry for us and played with us from the golds I think.  Because it was quite windy and cold that morning.  So the course probably played longer.  They had no trouble going for it on some of these.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Meant to respond to Kyle's post to also mention conditions are actually quite good right now.

I'm not sure if the greens were just aerated, but the greens felt somewhat slow.

Patrick I am glad to hear that.  Supertintendent Ryan Zuehlsdorf has been working hard to bring it back under the management of Touchstone Golf.  I know, I work for them.  As for Shadow Lakes, I can't speak, but Tom Huckaby's at least honest about liking it in part due to what he pays there ($0).
Quite a bit of money was just spent on the "new" temp clubhouse at Roddy so it is moving in the right direction, unlike many courses in today's economy.

[Kalen Braley]

Sounds like the KP courses for next spring are getting worked out in this thread.   

[John Keenan]

Never played in a KP but given the locations of these courses they are a bit far out from the core of the bay area you might be a bit isolated.

[Patrick Kiser]

Sounds like the KP courses for next spring are getting worked out in this thread.   

Shhhhhh...  Be wary wary quiet.  Huh, huh, huh...

Elmer

[Tom Huckaby]

Lynn - oh heck yeah, getting to play a course as it grew out of the dirt, and then many times for free thereafter, does give me a strong bias.  But it also ought to speak volumes that at least a few times I also then went and played Roddy for whatever the cost was there, rather than more golf at SL.  Roddy is indeed a darn fine golf course.

Patrick - well I am not a horrid golfer myself, and thus I understand what you are saying perhaps better than you think.     I am just here to tell you that over time, those aggressive lines seem sillier and sillier.... none are indeed really worth trying.  But yes, the houses do indeed impinge and remain a regret.

As for KP 2010, please guys, we can do better than this.  And that's no knock on any of these courses.  But a weekend in Brentwood?  Come on.... 

TH

[Patrick Kiser]

As for KP 2010, please guys, we can do better than this.  And that's no knock on any of these courses.  But a weekend in Brentwood?  Come on.... 

TH

Mums the word...  I'm only the wingman and will obey the boss  .

[Kyle Henderson]

Shadow Lakes is fun and used to be one of the best-conditioned courses anywhere (outside of Augusta) when Troon was operating it. Now the greens are pathetic (they used to be very quick and true, featuring maddeningly subtle contours) and the fairways roll at about 10% of their former speeds.

In general, I dislike the man made lake holes (5, 16 especially), though I think the water was used reasonable well on the back side par 3s 11 and 17). My favorite holes are #'s 1, 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 13, and 15.

Roddy is better as a whole. I wish I could have seen Shadow Lakes before the housing was erected.

Deer Ridge has maintained high grooming standards, but the original course had to be altered before opening because they accidently built on land they didn't own! Wetlands also lead to some akward hole in places (one such hole forbids hitting driver off the tee to carry wetlands and yield a short pitch to the green, mandating a lay up with an iron). Overall, Deer Ridge is a mixed bag of good, fair and dissappointing holes with noting stellar in the offing.

I believe that Shadow Lakes was principally designed by Tood Eckenrode during his tenure with Gary Roger Baird's design firm. Deer Ridge was designed by Andy Raghaust (spelling questionable), formerly of Nicklaus Design.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - you have Shadow Lakes right in terms of design - just note Todd inherited a routing done by seldom-participating GCAer (sadly for us) Neil Meagher.

And I'm not that far off from you.  I still put SL as a little better than Roddy, but that's based on what it WAS, not what it is... and my bias in favor of my friend is clear.  At least when SL was in good shape, it was a close fight.  Make conditions how you describe (which really does pain me) and oh yeah, Roddy clearly wins.

And yes it was something before houses.  But the lots were always marked, and my friend's job was what it was... so we knew the greatness was fleeting.

[Kyle Henderson]

Huckster: Always good to hear your viewpoints. You'd be very sad to see what SL is like right now...

For those who haven't been to the area, it's almost silly how many courses were built in the Brentwood/Antioch area during the 90's. The population was expanding rapidly and Tigermania was peaking, thus the city went from having virtually no golfing options to 90 holes (Brentwood also had a 9-hole executive course which was torn up to make way for the HWY 4 bypass) in the course of 8-10 years.

Take a look...