[Scott_Burroughs]

Nearing the June 1 soft opening, here's Ballyhack with the grass growing again:

Practice area on the right:


Back nine:


#7:


#10:


#11:


#17:


#18:

[Mike Jansen]

So what does the word "Bally" mean... with others like Ballybunion and Ballyneal

[Garland Bayley]

So what does the word "Bally" mean... with others like Ballybunion and Ballyneal

The Neal's own Ballyneal. I think it means something like home of, which would make Ballyhack be the home of hackers.
 

[Scott_Burroughs]

So what does the word "Bally" mean... with others like Ballybunion and Ballyneal

The Neal's own Ballyneal. I think it means something like home of, which would make Ballyhack be the home of hackers.
 

O'Neal, actually.


In Vegas, Bally means 'to gamble'.

[TEPaul]

ScottB:

Thanks for the photos. I think they were just taken. I was down there on Wednesday and Thursday. I was looking to see if you can see my car behind #18 but apparently not.

[Bill Kubly]

As Lester George has reported before, Ballyhack is the actual name of this area many years ago and it shows up on many old maps.  We were looking at a map of this area yesterday that Lester had found at some antique store and not only was the town named Ballyhack, there was also a school in this town with the same name.  Also on the map just under Ballyhack was the name LESTER which probably was the name of the land owner back in 1928 when this map was produced.  Pretty ironic that Lester ends up purchasing this land some 75-80 years later to build this course on.

The course is looking great, as it has had a great grow in with very little erosion.  The course will open by late June with a soft opening at the end of May for members and Coach Beamer who will be hosting an event at that time.  The bunkers are a piece of art.....

I suggest that you try to get to the site sometime this season to check out Lester's latest work.  I think you will like it, but bring your "A"  game.   

[Kalen Braley]

Those photos look fantastic.  Almost reminds me a little bit of the photo series done on Giants Ridge a few months back.

Lester job very well done and I hope to be able to get there sooner rather than later.....the wish list continues to grow. 

[TEPaul]

BillK:

I'm very glad to have met you down there. That is some course. As for the LESTER on that old 1928 real estate map right there on Ballyhack's location, that is the damnest thing imaginable but I still want a forensic DNA examination done of that lettering so I can compare it to our Lester George's DNA.

Or maybe Lester is something like Gen. George Patton with his total belief in reincarnation. Remember when he was driving around North Africa in a jeep with Gen Omar Bradley and all of a sudden Patton says; "Take a right and go out there" and they ended up on a plain where Patton described one of the major battles of the Carthegians? 

Bradley says: "How do you know all this detail about a battle of the Carthegians, George?" and Patton said; "Because I was here."

[Derek Dirksen]

The course looks fantastic.  I can't wait to see it in person.  Grow in looks great.  Congrats to all in involved.

[TEPaul]

What I would very much like to see happen on this particular thread is for various participants on here to weigh in on whether or not these photos of Ballyhack look to them like some of these holes there were heavily shaped or even unnecessarily shaped somehow.

I say that for a couple of reasons:

1. Do the holes just seem somehow artificially or heavily shaped period?

2. Do the participants on here understand at all what that topography actually looked like in its preconstruction natural state?


I was down there this week and all this was a very fine lesson to me. Actually quite a number of very fine lessons to me in both the art and construction of golf course architecture. Also, and in a real way, it seems to me that the natural topography of Ballyhack may've been a pretty remarkable challenge for any golf course architect. I'm wondering if the challenge of that natural topography there was one that most all golf course architects would've even accepted?

And having asked that question of the participants on this site, I would also like to add that I have recently gotten to know Lester George, and in my opinion, his imagination for over-all problem solving, particularly in a macro sense, and including his imagination for golf course architecture in both a large and small context is virtually off-the-charts!!

People like that totally fascinate me! I don't mean that to say that is precisely synonymous with my developing opinion of Ballyhack or even Lester's styles and approach, it only means just that----eg people like that completely fascinate me. There just has to be a pretty unique talent there in that way; I'm just trying to mull over how that type of talent both can and does manifest itself in golf course architecture!

[Jason McNamara]

Tom, based on undeveloped land in the vicinity, were you expecting more rumpled fairways?  I have not been out there, but could certainly imagine more of the fairways having various miniature humps and bumps such as can be seen on that sloping ridge to the back and left of #7.

Nice bunker left of 17 - nasty!

[TEPaul]

"Tom, based on undeveloped land in the vicinity, were you expecting more rumpled fairways?"


Jason:

I'm not sure what I was expecting. But if anyone wants to know what any of those holes out there looked like in their natural state I believe Lester has before construction photos of them. At least I sure hope he does because if he doesn't, in my opinion, one helluva interesting golf architecture lesson would be lost to the likes of us.

[Lester George]

Tom,

Thanks for the comments and I hope we spend enough time together for me to help the intrigue.  I really do think you are on to something with the MACRO discussion and in the future will do my best to clarify my thought process for things like that. 

I do take a certain amount of pride in my firm's ability to solve problems in a big way.  Of course, as you know, I am surrounded by the talents of Glenn, Nathan, Shannon and Pat.  Without them my brain would freeze up and I would be lost. 

I do have pre-construction photos and they can be found on the website and on the original Ballyhack thread.  I tried to accentuate the terrain to fit the vision when necessary but really worked hard on the routing to use the BIG FEATURES that were there.  I also conveyed the story to you where I woke up in the middle of the night numerous times wondering if there was ENOUGH movement in those fairways I sculpted.  I no longer worry about that!

Your discussion of Patton is more on target than you may think.  I DO believe there is some weird think going on here.  I felt a connection to this site early on.  The facts associated with my introduction to the site followed by the 10 or 15 bizarre events that have led to this golf course are really starting to make me feel that I have been there before.  It's similar to the last scene in THE SHINNING where they focus in on the picture from the early 1900's and there is Jack Nicholsons character in the picture!  I fully expect something like that to happen soon.

Anyway, I have reached my typing limit.  Thanks for coming to see it.  We all enjoyed having a real historian in our midst.

Lester

[Scott_Burroughs]

I do have pre-construction photos and they can be found on the website and on the original Ballyhack thread. 

Here are the site pics pre-construction he refers to:

Link 1

and early-construction pics:

Link 2

[Jerry Kluger]

It sure looks interesting and challenging.  The angles and slopes will require a great deal of thought when playing a shot as a ball hitting the fairway will not necessarily stay there and approaching a hole from the wrong angle will result in a very uncomfortable and difficult shot. 

Hopefully, I will be able to get there this summer.  I presume that being near Va Tech means there are plenty of accommodations in the area. 

Jerry

[Jonathan Cummings]

I just talked to Jonathan Ireland, DOG at Ballyhack.  I'm writing a feature for VSGA on Ballyhack and will be touring the course next week.  Giles and George have put together a team with a lot of connections to Kinlock.  They say it's different but equally good.  High praise.  JC

[TEPaul]

Scott Burroughs:


Thank so much for posting those pre-construction photos and photos during construction.

Those kinds of before, during and after photos are just what it is all about with truly understanding golf course architecture and what goes on in the field and the various and sometimes multifarious reasons why.

Most people on here not in the business have never had the opportunity to get out in the field before and during construction with various architects and I think the threads and their content on this website are beginning to truly reflects that lack of knowledge and understanding of the nitty-gritty of GCA CONCEPT and EXECUTION in the field and planning and creation stage on this website.

These kinds of photos---before, during and after are the next best thing to being out there on site with these architects and their crews and the good news on this thread is we also have Lester George on this website to answer any question about it. He could probably even explain all his routing thinking with these photos of Ballyhack and the gist and realities of raw routing is definitely something most on here need a real education on as obviously they've never tried it and have little real idea what and all goes into it.

Unfortunately the lack of response to a thread like this doesn't really surprise me anymore with the current participants on this site.

[Joe Hancock]

I just talked to Jonathan Ireland, DOG at Ballyhack. 

Well, damnit....that's the problem. I would have more work if I had a super cool golf name like "Joe Scotland"...or "Josie Wales".

Joe...Josie....whatever

[TEPaul]

That Jonathan Ireland is sure some nice and super polite young man. He's so nice and polite that just being around him for a night and day made me feel like a salty, surly old dog. But that's not Jonathan Ireland's fault or the fact that he's so nice and polite----I guess I am a salty, surly old dog. Well, maybe I'm not all that salty and surly; just old.

Another one I met down there the other day who's getting involved----Peter Hodgson. Great guy--lota good wisdom.

And then there's Lester, but that's a whole 'nother story! 

[Jason Topp]

The site looks really severe based on the pictures although the holes look fun.  Best of luck to those involved with the project! 

[Lester George]

Jason,

The site is SEVERE. 

SEVERELY beautiful, demanding, rewarding and pleasurable.  It commands intense observation and is very intriguing. 

It is the ONLY reason the golf course exists.  You are welcome to come see it anytime.

Lester 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Saw this aerial shot, taken last fall, on the club's web site:

http://www.ballyhackgolfclub.com

I believe the front 9 is at top:



To figure out routing:

[John Kirk]

Hi Lester,

It's a very interesting project.  The course would be quite difficult to walk.  Conversely, it will test parts of your game that flatter courses are less capable of testing.  I know Kinloch Golf Club very well, which is closer to a standard parkland challenge.  Ballyhack gives Mr. George the chance to build something wild and dramatic.

The grass looks great, Lester.

Don't worry, Tom Paul...we're just getting started slowly.  How about the giant double green on the back nine (13 and 15)?  How does #14 look?  Remember I had questions about the best place to put the fairway.

Lester or Tom, how well balanced is the course in terms of holes that turn left and right, greens that open up from the left or right, uphill and downhill approach shots, fairways that cant left and right, etc.

[Carl Nichols]

Unfortunately the lack of response to a thread like this doesn't really surprise me anymore with the current participants on this site.

Tom:
That may have as much to do with your attempt to push the thread in a specific direction as it does with lack of general interest.  In any event, to somewhat answer your questions, when I look only at the current photos (i.e., not having looked at the earlier photos Scott posted links to), my quick reactions are that (1)  Lester probably had to move quite a bit of dirt to fit playable holes into a challenging site; (2) on balance, it looks terrific; but (3) some of the bunkers look unnecessary and/or overdone. 

[Kirk Gill]

I'll throw down a question or three, Lester, if you don't mind (my apologies if they've been asked and answered on earlier threads). First of all, the fifteenth with it's double-fairway. It seems like double-fairway holes rarely actually offer options, it seems that there's typically one fairway that's clearly superior. What, for you, was the thought behind providing a double-fairway? I obviously haven't been down there for a visit to see the topography of the hole, but what would cause a golfer to take that longer route to the left? Also, I'm curious about what's going on between the 18th green and the 15th fairway - is that a practice area of some kind? Also, I know that the bunkers on the hill to the left of the 18th fairway have been discussed before - I believe that in previous pics they were actually photoshopped in - but they seem superfluous from a golfing perspective.....are they? Is their purpose to separate the 18th from the 12th? The course is obviously dramatic, and looks to be difficult for the higher handicapper. How demoralizing will the course be to the lesser player? There are certainly enough beautiful vistas to stir the soul.......

Thanks in advance for any comments you might offer!

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