[Dub_ONeill]

I post here with some trepidation given the level of discourse observed during my past visits.  Nonetheless, I have a question concerning the decisions made to sometimes designate sandy areas on the a course (including greenside) as waste areas that are played through the green versus bunkers.  Is it largely a question of maintenance and appearance, or are there other values involved in such a decision?  Are there well known courses abroad that play such areas through the green?  Would courses like Pine Barrens and Kiawah be different in any significant way for the player if these areas were not played through the green?

[RJ_Daley]

I only played Kiawah once, but found it a mental hurdle to overcome the idea that you can sole your club in bunkers/sand waste there.  I will be interested to see how the PGA designates that issue at Whistling Straits.  Will they have some of the bunkers designated waste and the greenside bunkers and certain fairway bunkers as traditional, or call the whole course and all sand bunkers traditional to not sole a club?  Has anyone heard in advance what the rule on that will be at WS?  

[TEPaul]

This entire question of "waste areas" as some kind of designation in golf has got me totally confused.

Many more times than once I've referred to the sandy areas of Pine Valley in the presence of Mayor John Ott as "waste areas" and he immediately takes me to task everytime.

Now I'm more confused than ever and all I know is that no matter where in hell I might hit it at Pine Valley in the future I'm not gonna ground my club and I'm gonna keep my mouth completely shut!

[A_Clay_Man]

I enjoyed that aspect at wwpb, even though it led to a major controversy when my ball was in the waste area very close to one of those big lips and there was a sprinkler head in  my swing. so, I took nearest relief, which was back on grass. My friend ed still howls about that one.

But, my first impression was that the likely justification for this "local" rule would be to help keep the brisk pace they emphasize there. This will not be an issue for the premadonn...I mean pros.

[A_Clay_Man]

Personally I'm in favor of seeing the most amount of variables present for the pros to show what dey got. Such as muddy plugged lies buried at the root of a tree. SO I may be biased but I think they should never ever touch the ball unless theres an immovable obstruction or the like. But touching your ball cause its raining is contrary to the spirit of the rules. except for the rule that doesn't exist that cheating is not allowed.

[Mark_Fine]

The biggest advantage in my mind of areas designated as "waste areas" is that they don't have to be as well maintained (don't have to be raked).  You get what you get as far as a lie!  Biggest problem with them is knowing what is a "waste area" and what is a bunker?  I really don't like courses that use two different kinds of sand to designate the difference.  When you have both on the same hole, it looks goofy!
Mark

[Don_Mahaffey]

If it is difficult to determine whether one is in a bunker or waste area then, IMHO, the waste area was poorly designed or is being poorly maintained. Waste areas work very well in the desert where turf is limited and the waste area gives the player some hope of recovery. Here in Arizona they are often call transition areas and are really just native soil areas cleared of plant material and raked occasionally. I think the problems begin when well meaning decision makers determine that the waste areas should be maintained. They then maintain them similar to a bunker. They get raked  and leveled regularly and pretty soon they look just like a bunker and everyone thinks they should play like one also. I believe there are applications for waste areas provided they are maintained (left alone) properly.

[Peter Galea]

Years ago at Spyglass Hill there was a waste area that transitioned in to a greenside bunker on the fifth hole.
It was designated by blue stakes. Within the stakes, waste; past the stakes, bunker. If I remember correctly the "waste area" didn't have much of an edge and featured "the plant" (iceplant), as well as pampassgrass.

[A_Clay_Man]

Peter- It's funny you mention Spy since I was thinking about the beautiful natural monster that fronts the front right of two.
WHen I first played there it was treated as a waste bunker for the simple distinction that there were no rakes. Now they put rakes and have you ever tried to rake up that dune sand?
work work work

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Actually, from what John Morrissett said in a past posting on the subject, if a USGA event like the U.S. Open was to take place at, oh, say The Ocean Course, the USGA would designate many of the greenside areas as bunkers but further out would be transition areas where clubs could be grounded.  (We like to call them "transition areas" vs. "waste areas."  If you read the Harbour Town chapter in Pete Dye's "Bury me in a Pot Bunker," you'd know why...)  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Similar to what Dick mentioned above, I couldn't get myself to ground my club in the "transition areas" at Kiawah.  It felt like cheating.

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