[John Mayhugh]

For a couple of years I've read about Rustic Canyon on the site and was eager to play it for the first time.  I had pretty high expectations and have to say the course really exceeded them.  It's fantastic. 

The morning round was played in high winds, but I didn't get to enjoy them as much as I would have liked since I was too busy trying to figure out how to read a putt!  Several people advised me of the predominant slope, but I just couldn't get my eyes & mind to cooperate.  It was really frustrating trying to figure out how to putt. Talk about a home course advantage, though.  This is clearly a place where one could have so much fun developing local knowledge. 

Likes
Wide fairways that offered many different ways to play the hole
Value of correct approach angles would make course play different nearly every day
Green complexes that put a premium on approaches
Use of short grass surrounds to permit variety of shotmaking (or not making in my case)
Width permits less skilled players to still get around and have fun.  Very unusual for desert area
Ability to look at upcoming hole locations and options as you make the loop out
Shared fairway area, especially between 2 & 5  Very cool.  Gotta see it in person.
Huge swale in front of 6 green.  Wow did that play firm!
Buried elephant in 4 green. Talk about needing to be on the correct side of the hole.
Just the fun of being above the hole/predominant slope anywhere.
Great use of OB/native area.  Not at all intrusive but provides penalty for errant aggressive play
That single fairway bunker on 9.  Perfectly positioned.
The green complex on 13 (though I wish the rough around the bunker had been shorter 
The downhill 16th.  As much as I loved the downhill tee shot, stopping on the green is a challenge.

Dislikes
Some areas that might lead to slower play (e.g. shared fairway area on 2/5, driveable 12th).  This is really grasping at straws, though, because I think both features make the course more fun but just may not be as well suited to public play.

Rustic Canyon is very high on my list of places I want to play again.......SOON!  Walking off the 18th green, you are consumed by one thought - can I get back out again?  I wish I could describe how much fun it was playing around with flighting of shots and playing a variety of short shots.  There are plenty of options in addition to putting from the surrounds and I tried many of them.  I can't believe I will have any more fun than Rustic before going to England in September. 

[Tom Huckaby]

John:

Great stuff, my friend.  I find myself nodding a lot reading that.

Just one thing.....

"Buried elephant in 4 green. Talk about needing to be on the correct side of the hole."

Oh sure, normal mortals need to be on the correct side of the hole.

Tom "made a 20 footer from the wrong side of the hump" Huckaby

 

[Bill_McBride]

"Buried elephant in 4 green. Talk about needing to be on the correct side of the hole."

Oh sure, normal mortals need to be on the correct side of the hole.

Tom "made a 20 footer from the wrong side of the hump" Huckaby

 

You are indeed the god of golf.  I was at the bottom of that slope and was thrilled to get within 4' with my "lag" putt.  Still made bogey.   

But I don't understand all the whining about the 15th green.  I hit a chunky 8 iron right below the hole (back of first tier), rolled my putt to 12", ho hum par.  What's the big deal - if you're below the hole!  The moral - sometimes you want to be below the hole (#15), sometimes you don't (#4).

[Tom Huckaby]

Bill:

Of course I was just kidding praising my god-like putt.. though it did occur, I could try that one 100 more times and likely never make it again.  And it was MOTORING when it banged the hole and went in.  John is very very very correct that one does not want to miss right to the pin we had Sunday.  But there is a LOT of room left and short, and from there it's a fairly simple putt.  I think 4 is genius for just these reasons. Of course it's easier for me to say having made that putt... my humor might not be so great if I 3 putted as would be normal from that spot!

And re 15, I agree that it is out of character for the course - three tiers just doesn't seem to be right - but I do not agree it's over the top.  Heck it's a pretty short hole... and what's wrong with a killer short hole?  We did get a very tough pin... but I assume it's not always there, too.  A front pin there would be pretty manageable.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

Of course I was just kidding praising my god-like putt.. though it did occur, I could try that one 100 more times and likely never make it again.  And it was MOTORING when it banged the hole and went in.  John is very very very correct that one does not want to miss right to the pin we had Sunday.  But there is a LOT of room left and short, and from there it's a fairly simple putt.  I think 4 is genius for just these reasons. Of course it's easier for me to say having made that putt... my humor might not be so great if I 3 putted as would be normal from that spot!

And re 15, I agree that it is out of character for the course - three tiers just doesn't seem to be right - but I do not agree it's over the top.  Heck it's a pretty short hole... and what's wrong with a killer short hole?  We did get a very tough pin... but I assume it's not always there, too.  A front pin there would be pretty manageable.

TH

I thought the contrast between the advantage of being short on #15 and dead on #4 was amusing!  There was absolutely no hope for those who were above the hole on #15, and, other than you, none for those who were short on #4.  There go all those old preconceptions.  Rustic is that kind of course, it's becoming one of my favorites anywhere now that I've played it half a dozen times.  I really preferred the old #7 but I guess it had to go along with the flood waters.

[Tom Huckaby]

Concur completely, Bill.

I don't seem to dislike the new 7 as much as some do, but I would agree I liked the old version better.. primarily because in the old version, there was a strong temptation to go right, over the wash.  That is gone now... too bad.  It's still a strong golf hole I think, just not so crazy fun as it was before.

On the other hand... a complaint some gave with the old version was that THREE somewhat reachable par fours (add 7 to 3 and 12) was too much.  I kinda dug it myself, but the complaint was made.

So of course you can never please everyone... but at least these types ought to like the new 7 better.

TH

[David Stamm]

John:

Great stuff, my friend.  I find myself nodding a lot reading that.

Just one thing.....

"Buried elephant in 4 green. Talk about needing to be on the correct side of the hole."

Oh sure, normal mortals need to be on the correct side of the hole.

Tom "made a 20 footer from the wrong side of the hump" Huckaby

 

John, I told you! Tis the greatest public in So Cal and one of the best period, public or private.


Tom, my putt STOPPED on top of the mound. I don't think I could've pulled that off again if I had 20 trys. The green is a hoot to play, as are most of them at RC.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom, my putt STOPPED on top of the mound. I don't think I could've pulled that off again if I had 20 trys. The green is a hoot to play, as are most of them at RC.

Great googly moogly... now that trumps mine banging the hole BIG time. 

I don't envy that next putt.

 

[John Mayhugh]

my putt STOPPED on top of the mound. I don't think I could've pulled that off again if I had 20 trys. The green is a hoot to play, as are most of them at RC.

I thought you did that just to show your mastery of the game & course.

[David Kelly]

Looking at these pictures reminds me of how fantastic the course looked when it first opened.

[Scott Henderson]

Although I was one of the least skilled of the participants in this years KP I must say that RC was one of the most interesting and fun courses I have played in years.  I have to agree with those who have played the course many times.  The large areas around the greens left me with many questions about how I should make the nex shot.

I did have the advantage of playing against Tommy N. and he was gracious enough to treat us to many insights, although he did not give anything away ahead of time.  His knowledge of the history of the course made it a great deal more interesting.

I thought #3 was one of the more interesting early holes because of the various possible ways to play it.  Even though I do not hit the ball far enough to try to drive the green I can see how tempting it would be to go for it if I could (obviously my scion can).

Regardless of the difficultly of putting, #4 showed how it plays for the less fortunate when Tommy's shot cleared the bunker but hung up in the long stuff; and how it can play for the less skilled but very lucky when my shot landed short ot the bunker but bounced over and almost rolled onto the green.

The pin on #13 may have been easy for the skilled players, but I had to play my approach from a position where the bunker was directly between my ball and the pin - but the green is contoured such that, were I slightly better, I still could have been close.  I may be weird, but I like greens like that - even though some people may think it is somewhat like miniature golf.

In the conditions we were playing #14 almost proved too much for our group - 3 of the 4 had to use the drop area, and the fourth hit his tee shot to within a few feet of the drop area.

All in all I have to say that the course played very tough under the conditions - what with one shot being directly into the wind, and the very next shot being downwind!  I congratulate the organizers for the setup and pin placements - and for having the good sense and intelligence to have some of them changed to make it a more managable task for us with higher handicaps.

I had never played RC before, but I will have to go back (again and again) soon.  I like TH wish there was something even close to comperable in Norcal.

I think that #15 played really difficult in the conditions with the pin position we had, although one ofour group (me) did manage to win it with a par (thanks to Tommy having to make a putt on the same line as my final putt to show me the way).

[Lou_Duran]

Can one agree with Huckaby's initial post and also concur with some of Matt C's observations?  I made similar comments (of the up-canyon direction of four of the five par 5s, the similarities of the short down-canyon par 4s 3 and 12, and the one-dimensional nature of the areas around the greens dictated by the tight, closely-mown grass- try hitting a sand wedge with more than a few degrees of bounce without scalding the shot) and was taken to the woodshed by none other than the jovial Pete L.

I do think that RC is the perfect course for that site.  The green complexes, the wind, and the harsh terrain provide its challenge.  It is a thinking man's golf course where distance in terms of how far we normally hit each club is mostly inconsequential.  The course is probably more suitable for match play.

As to David Wigler, he caught the course on a calm day.  Had he played in either of the KPs hosted by RC, his opinion would be very different.

Along with Soule Park, Hanse and company have done excellent work in CA.  Both courses are top notch that could benefit from higher maintenance budgets and a clientele more sensitive to the etiquette of the game.

One last comment, I very much disliked the "environmentally sensitive" areas.  One can look all around and view similar terrain as far as the eye can see.  I doubt that these areas within the confines of the course are either more sensitive than any other or rare by any definition of the word.  My opponent forbid me from stepping in to either retrieve or hit my ball (on #5), something that the locals do regularly with scorn (for the silly warning signs or McBride's slithering friends).

[Tom Huckaby]

"Can one agree with Huckaby's initial post and also concur with some of Matt C's observations? "

Certainly.  My post was mainly generalities, his gave specifics.  I don't wholly disagree with his specific critiques.  For me though the massive positives outweigh these.

And thanks for the post re our Indiana friend.  You truly nailed it, I think.I do not want to say anymore there... it can do only harm... but that was appreciated.

You are one heck of an ACE my friend.

 

[Garland Bayley]

My experience with Rustic Canyon.

A few years back I played it, hit it reasonably straight, and shot my best score in 25 years.
At KP I played it, I couldn't buy a straight shot, shot one of my worst scores since returning to playing golf regularly about 7 years ago, and I'm stoked about it. I came away with a much better understanding of it, but know I have a lot to learn.

One last thing for Jordan. I believe you found 12 easy, because you had the easiest pin possible that day, and you didn't miss it left.

[Tom Huckaby]

One last thing for Jordan. I believe you found 12 easy, because you had the easiest pin possible that day, and you didn't miss it left.

From my limited experience with Rustic (4 rounds) I would say that's definitely true.  That was the easiest possible pin.  However if one did miss left, even then it wasn't all that easy.

I have great respect for 12.  I can understand those who complain the tee shot has little interest I guess... but the tee shot sets up the 2nd, and I can't imagine an uninteresting second to that hole.

TH

[Greg Tallman]

Had never paid a lot of attention to the Rustic Canyn threads but after reading this and visiting their website I must say the place looks impressive and worth a visit. MOst commentary here confirms that sentiment.

[Tom Huckaby]

Had never paid a lot of attention to the Rustic Canyn threads but after reading this and visiting their website I must say the place looks impressive and worth a visit. MOst commentary here confirms that sentiment.

It's worth seeking out for sure, Greg.  It is most definitely unique for California... and dare I say for US golf as a whole. Let's just say it's closest cousins are places like Sand Hills, Ballyneal, Wild Horse... you know places with firm and fast conditions, but also where golf FUN, and a strong allowance for the thinking man to have his skills taxed and rewarded, seem to be the paramount design concerns.

[John Mayhugh]

I would love to see some of the other hole locations on 12.  I was fortunate to hit good tee shots both times on the hole, but I can see where the wrong tee shot makes for a very tough approach.

I didn't mind the par 5s going in a similar direction as it helped get shorter hitters up the slope without really noticing it.  I thought this was a part of the routing that worked really well.  There's certainly plenty of variety in the play of those holes if you're thinking vs. bombing.

Plenty of variety of shots available around the greens.  I liked the little 8 iron bump and run option more than a flop with the lob wedge, but the type of shot to play was very dependent on the hole location and slope in between. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Plenty of variety of shots available around the greens.  I liked the little 8 iron bump and run option more than a flop with the lob wedge, but the type of shot to play was very dependent on the hole location and slope in between. 

BINGO.  And this is why I don't really buy Matt's criticism that every approach shot is best played with a putter.  Oh most are, for sure, given the low percentage nature of trying to do anything other than that because of the firmness of the turf.  But plenty are not, because there are plenty of times when going up and over some roll, hump, other contour does turn the percentages in favor of some loft.

[David Kelly]

the one-dimensional nature of the areas around the greens dictated by the tight, closely-mown grass- try hitting a sand wedge with more than a few degrees of bounce without scalding the shot

Try putting from off the green at Riviera.

I've seen good players hitting spinning wedges from the aprons and I have seen people putt with utility clubs, 3-woods and 5-irons.  Also there are plenty of places around the greens where someone has to chip with a sand wedge or 60 wedge. 

[DMoriarty]

Can one agree with Huckaby's initial post and also concur with some of Matt C's observations?  I made similar comments (of the up-canyon direction of four of the five par 5s, the similarities of the short down-canyon par 4s 3 and 12, and the one-dimensional nature of the areas around the greens dictated by the tight, closely-mown grass- try hitting a sand wedge with more than a few degrees of bounce without scalding the shot) and was taken to the woodshed by none other than the jovial Pete L.

Interesting question. I guess you can agree with both, but you might be contradicting yourself.  I don't think you could have what Huckaby expressed in his first post without the extended aprons.    They aren't just for putting, but allow for the kind of variety of approaches and angles that all seem to love.

I cannot think of a single hole out there that would be improved by doing away with the approaches.  Can anyone else? 

[Tom Huckaby]

I think one can accept or at least understand SOME of Matt's critiques and still have the overall impression I gave.... but as I have said, I don't buy the one Lou cited.

Interesting question this:

I cannot think of a single hole out there that would be improved by doing away with the approaches.  Can anyone else?

Maybe 15?  Hell that's the problem child anyway... dynamite the whole area between tee and green, take the killer hole idea to the max.

 

Seriously though I'd say every hole works perfectly as is. 
 
 
 

[Lou_Duran]

David K,

You are right about Riviera and the kikuyu.

And you are also right about chipping with various clubs, though I am not sure that the risk/reward relationship is superior to putting.  As to hitting spinning wedges, I am not bad around the greens but never felt comfortable clipping the ball with either of my sand wedges.  If I played RC regularly, I would get a lob wedge with very little bounce and practice that shot a lot.  Off the second cut or the rough, the wedges are easier.

David M,

I wouldn't change a thing about RC except remove the signs if not the fences and allow play from the environmental areas.  The aprons were fine on Sunday, firm and relatively dry.  But as I stated above, for me to hit anything but a putter, I'd have to get new equipment and practice the shots.  I've played some six or seven rounds at RC and have yet to figure out the best angles to the greens.  I know that 14 and 16 approaches must be hit softly and short downwind.  I still don't know where to hit the tee shot on 15- first tier?  I am sure that the course offers considerable variety even with some similar tee shots, within the same round and day-to-day.

[rjsimper]

What do you find similar about the 3rd and 12th other than they are both down-canyon, driveable par 4s?

One places the demand on the tee shot, the other on the approach shot.  One has a severe green, the other probably the easiest green on the course, one has death long and right, the other has no death around the green at all, save for maybe extremely long and left.  One has clear visual cues as to directionality off the tee, and options, the other is fairly a blank canvas and can be argued as too easy.  One defends quite a bit using sand, the other if you don't go left has no sand to contend with, One you can see the green, the other you cannot.

I think there are definitely more similarities to be found between 9 and 10, though more the old 10 than the new 10...but I don't see much other than yardage that is alike between 3 and 12.  The 3rd hole I pretty much knew what score I was making (within one stroke) once I hit my tee shot.  The 12th with a tougher pin than last weekend you can make 2 and you can make 6 from position A with similar ease.

[Patrick Kiser]

I know that 14 and 16 approaches must be hit softly and short downwind.  I still don't know where to hit the tee shot on 15- first tier?  I am sure that the course offers considerable variety even with some similar tee shots, within the same round and day-to-day.

I think the pin placement on the 15th this time around just made things a little silly.  With those conditions we had, that front pin placement to the upper tier on the lower left hand side was just too much...  Like I said, David Miller made a great recovery putt from the bottom of the apron to within 1-2 feet ... and back down it went.  The ball just would not stay.

So I'm not sure who did well on Sunday on that hole, but I'd love to hear about it.  Anyone par or birdie it?

As for the 16th, I thought I positioned a pretty good shot short of apron with the hope it would run on a little and make it onto the green.  It's death beyond the green back there on the apron.  It drops more than one would think.  But no dice.  I want to say it was downwind and I had a flyer lie, but it checked up anyway.  It was pretty spongy down there for my 3rd.  I guess I just don't have an on command cut shot into that pin position we had, but I think that's what it called for.

Also ... can someone please trim the trees in the right hand bunker / hazard short of the green on the 16th.  Several of us spent wayyyyy too much time looking for the golf ball there.  It might be nice and all, but it's really slowing play down.

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