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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 10:33:51 AM »
Very impressed with MIke Benham.  How do you drive 5 hours, jump out of the car and shoot 76 at Rustic Canyon?

Subtly studly.




The legend of the Silver Fox added another chapter, John. Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2009, 10:40:25 AM »
Tom, very well said in regards to Rustic. It never ceases to amaze me how how I come away from the course loving and respecting it more than I did the last time I played it. Rustic nevers gets boring. I envy Moriarty and Kelly that they get to play it as often as they do. Like with any course, you'll get a few who don't get it, but Rustic Canyon is every bit a masterpiece.

I'd say the two Davids have the most valuable "membership" in our state....

 ;D

JK - Benham didn't have to drive.  Hey I drove, got a ticket, and managed a smooth 83 (entirely giving up after being closed out in the fourball, and almost keeping up with Spaulding in beer consumption)... can I get some love?   ;D


Always nice to know you could keep up with Spaulding and get a ticket.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2009, 10:40:41 AM »

1. Four par-5's, all in the same direction, the same amount uphill, with similar teeshots, all within 16 yards of each other in length, all in the space of 9 holes. Any of them alone with the possible exception of 9 is OK, but they make a weak group combined. I think the course would be much better if the par-5's were set up at a variety of lengths (fixable), but would have been far better if the par-5's were oriented with a mix of up-the-valley and down-the-valley holes (not really fixable now). Major routing flaw.



I had this thought on my first glance at the scorecard as well, but after playing was amazed at how different the par 5s played despite the qualities mentioned above.

My only criticism was #15.  I find it to be very cool, if it was just a little more tame with the slopes.  I suppose a course like RC can have a hole where the best play may be short of the green, but I think the same challenges can be accomplished with a % point or two less slope all around.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2009, 10:44:24 AM »
Tom, very well said in regards to Rustic. It never ceases to amaze me how how I come away from the course loving and respecting it more than I did the last time I played it. Rustic nevers gets boring. I envy Moriarty and Kelly that they get to play it as often as they do. Like with any course, you'll get a few who don't get it, but Rustic Canyon is every bit a masterpiece.

I'd say the two Davids have the most valuable "membership" in our state....

 ;D

JK - Benham didn't have to drive.  Hey I drove, got a ticket, and managed a smooth 83 (entirely giving up after being closed out in the fourball, and almost keeping up with Spaulding in beer consumption)... can I get some love?   ;D


Always nice to know you could keep up with Spaulding and get a ticket.

Cool... I am proud to know the company I keep in my debt to Simi Valley society.

My score was a conditions-adjusted 68.  Benham sucks... his was an 84.

 ;D ;D


Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2009, 11:00:43 AM »
I loved Rustic.  The valley effect was the single hardest part of any golf course I played this week.  It made putting very difficult, but a true test.  If you putted well, you did something right.

I didn't have one favorite hole, a sure testament to the course as there were many good ones.

#1 was a really good opener.   The tee shot is almost too easy but the second shot is so much fun when navigating the green in two.  The way the ditch was used was fantastic.  That was a fun green, as even though it was very much back to font sloping, getting to the back pin was hard because shots would too easily go over the green due to the wind and, yes, the valley effect.

#3 was a great hole.  Of course downwind it played pretty easy, but there are so many options off that tee.  Robert told me to hit 3-wood on my tee shot...325 yards.  I hit driver and went 30 yards over the green, welcome to Rustic Canyon.  Pin high with a 3-wood the second time, which brings me to the one thing I really took away from that golf course; to really understand how to play it, it really takes several plays, a really good feature.

I liked the cross bunker short of the fourth.  Don't know what it was like before the floods without that bunker, but I thought it made the hole original and I liked it.

#'s 5 thru 7 were all good but I really liked #8.  What a seemingly benign hole, at 120 yards from the tips, but what a friggin hard little bugger.  Where Moriarty put that pin, it felt like putting a pistol to your head; sure death.  Even the safe play right made a hard two putt.  For being so short, what a really really good hole.

#10 and that swimming pool green.  Also, the cape like second shot.  What cool and unique features.  And I'll be damned, Geoff, that I hit it into that tiny bathtub thing you call a bunker.  I think that should be named after me, because both drives I hit on that hole just magnetized to that bunker.  I think I flew it the first round, but either way I was frightened both times.  Bunkers like that are fun, but pretty much suicide once you get in them.  That green was pretty fun though.  What is it, some 75 yards long??  Fun stuff.

#'s 12 and 13 were my only criticism of the course...just too easy.  Mayhugh and I both agree.  Second round, we were -5 on those holes as a team.  Whats up with that??   ;D

#14 was obviously a cool hole but the first time hitting that tee shot, especially that downwind, flat out sucked because I flew my drive 20 yards past the bunker.  I just kind of stood there, scratching my head.  Nonetheless, the second time playing it was a bit easier, knowing at least where to go with at.  Into the wind that tee shot would be a brutal one.  The green was great, allowing for longer shots to feed down.  I really loved how you had to use the ground features at Rustic to play successful shots.  

15 thru 17 I liked, but nothing overly special.  Perhaps a special note for 16 because I've never been pin high from 150 with a sand wedge...pretty fun.

I really, really liked 18.  What a great finishing hole for matches.  Just a solid, good golf holes.  It's challenging yet playable, allowing for all sorts of scores, and I just loved it.


Rustic was pure fun.  It was my second favorite course on the trip, the most fun of any of the KP courses.  I would love to play that course day in and day out.  The maintenance was top notch and the staff was great, letting us going out for 36 including free carts, and that was really cool and a great gesture they did not have to do.

Huckaby, I missed you, WTF!? My bad, brotha.

btw...how about them Cow's on the hill to the right of 13??  They were too funny.  One was just standing on top, I didn't know if he was gonna do the roll or run or whatever down that hill, but John if you could please post some pictures that was just too funny........

Cheers!

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2009, 11:07:09 AM »
"Huckaby, I missed you, WTF!? My bad, brotha."

You are excused. Playing more golf trumps bs-ing with pyscho old men any time.

 ;D

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2009, 12:33:28 PM »
I can agree a little bit with Matt Cohn's comments regarding the similarity in strategy if you miss the green.  I did find in my time playing there that I spent a good bit of time putting or chipping with mid irons, but that's because I happen to be good at that. Look at it another way and tell me if you miss any green surrounded by rough, what options do you have? None...SW it is.  Sure, missing RC's 2nd green short, most would pull a putter, but is there anything preventing you from hitting a spinning SW back to the hole?  No.

So, while I see your critique's origins, the conclusion you reach is false.  You are saying you are left with no options other than putting...when that could not be farther from the truth.

Those bentgrass collars are basically extensions of each green. I'm as likely to chip from one of those as I am likely to chip from on the actual green itself. Sure I could - you could hit a 9-iron on a 4-foot putt if you wanted - but it's just not going to happen!  :)

Regarding the Par 5s as a weakness, you have got to be joking.  I do not believe there is a finer set of par 5s at any golf course in Southern California, and while I have not played enough golf to really compare at a deep level, I cannot think of a course that has better par 5s out of the great courses I have played....on the west coast alone CPC, Riviera, LACC, 3 Bandon courses, none of them have the strategic interest of Rustic when talking about the Par 5s alone. What's the strategic interest? For me, they were all wide-open drives and a bit too long to reach in two shots. Only on #6 did I feel the need to really think about my layup, but there aren't really many options if you don't have the length to reach the green.

As for the same direction, first consider the site, and please explain how you'd propose to better route the par 5s. This, alone doesn't mean the routing is GOOD, but we must tip our cap to reality as well. Saying that all of these 550 yard holes are oriented up/down canyon is akin to critiquing the 8th hole because it's not alongside an ocean. There's simply no other way to do it, and let's look a little closer.

Better routing the par-5's would basically require re-routing the course, so I'm not prepared to put that much time into the question! But you misread. I didn't say they were all oriented up/down. I said they were all oriented up - in the same basic direction. Number one is interesting, and adds variety - hence not including it in my original post.

Up canyon is a general direction, but it's by no means "the same" when comparing say, the 9th hole to the 13th.  Check out an aerial.  You might think it's the same, but there is a solid 40 degrees in differential between the direction they face - the 9th being Northwest and the 13th being North/Northeast. So, we can discuss your criticism in the general sense (up-canyon) but in the actual sense, especially on a course so affected by wind, they play differently.

I don't think that using 1/9 of the compass really qualifies as variety in orientation. "Wow, just a few holes ago the wind was into me and left to right. Now it's left to right and into me. What variety!"

Even ignoring the routing element of your critique, considering each hole in a vacuum, they are consistently excellent, with the exception of the 9th.  The green complexes are all entirely different, as are the tee shots. I'll ignore the first, because we can surely agree that one is in no way similar to any others.

I think they're OK, with #5 probably being the best, then #10, then #13 (I thought the green seemed kinda weird relative to the rest of the greens? But funnish.), then #9. The first hole is in there somewhere.

The 5th tee plays games with you regarding angles and blindness off the tee, and tries to tilt you toward the tree/hazard left. I don't recall that, but if you say so!

The 9th is agreed as a rather boring tee shot, but the green may make you think more with a SW in your hand than any other of the par 5s. I don't remember. For what reason?

The 10th, with the new bunkering, is a diagonal hazard that a long hitter can reach, and the more you go right, the longer you can hit it, but beware the cleverly placed bathtub bunker. There is no way to reach the green without challenging the right side.

On a straight-ahead, 550-yard hole, playing 40 yards left or right of the direct line to the hole adds less than 6 yards to the effective length of the hole, so I don't buy that someone has to challenge the right side to get home in two. If you don't believe me, try old Pythagoras' Theorem. It's actually a stunning result.

The 13th is, well, one of my favorite golf holes on the planet, so there is no mileage here in talking about this as a weak link.  The tee shot is perfect, the green is perfect. It is the best hole on the course.

Do you think the green fits the rest of the course?

The lengths may be similar, but they certainly do not play alike.  If there is one course in CA where the yardages do not matter, it's Rustic Canyon.  I honestly could not tell you what the yardage for any of the non par 3s is there.  I just know that at 6:15am the 2nd hole is a 3w plus a 6-9 iron, depending on the wind. Why do you hit 3-wood to a 70-yard wide fairway? LOL One might guess the hole was somewhere around 410-420 yards based on this....imagine my surprise when I saw a number much higher than that on the scorecard.

This whole alternating blue responses thing makes me feel like Pat Mucci.   :P

The 2nd and 11th holes are of approximately the same length.  Would you offer the same criticism between these two?  No, they go in opposite directions with very different teeshots. That's exactly my point! Same goes for 14, 16, and 18.  All 5 of these par 4s are within something like 25 yards of one another.  Is that a problem? I think it's minor as they're all very different holes - especially 14, one of my 2 or 3 favorites on the course. They also are all very distinct from #2, the other par-4 going in that same direction.

I do not believe the course is above criticism, by any means.  The 7th green is a joke, the 15th can get out of hand in dry windy conditions and the tee box does unfairly set the golfer up back toward the 14th fairway, but the two elements you've chosen are the wrong ones to pick on.  I would happily play all 5 of those par 5s if they were consecutive holes...screw the routing, they are damn good golf holes, and any out/back configuration is going to have a good number of them oriented in the same GENERAL direction.

Yes sir, General Direction.   ;D


Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2009, 12:50:58 PM »

2. Lack of variety around the greens. Sorry, but every time you miss the green, you putt. Where's the fun in that? I like chipping and think it's interesting. Options? Not really. You'd have to be crazy to hit anything except a putter. I think the course would be much better without those giant bentgrass collars that are basically extensions of the greens. Sturdier grass would introduce some uncertainty and decision making into shots around the green.

Why does everybody seem to ignore these flaws?

Matt,

I'm sorry I missed the gathering this year but having played Rustic Canyon but once, I must take exception to your thesis that you need to hit a chip or pitch to get the most enjoyment out of your game. I feel that one' s worst putt will inevitably finish closer to the pin than your best chip and isn't that what the game is all about?

Bob

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2009, 01:34:31 PM »
Matt's point is one I have made in the past, citing it as a weakness of courses that do get very firm and fast.  In general his point is a good one - if things are so rock hard that the only sane shot is a putter, that does get repetitive.... it is a lot more fun to have potential options for the manner in which to play shots around the greens.

HOWEVER.....

 - this situation is SO different from most golfers' usual fare, it would take quite a lot of play like this for this to get old.  I didn't see the two Davids looking bored, and they have played Rustic Canyon in this type of condition literally hundreds of times.

 - more importantly, and specific to Rustic Canyon - what I noticed this time was there are so many humps, ridges, hollows, etc. that the SAFEST play was a putter given the firmness, but the BEST play was often something that could be hit with some spin, to go up and over and avoid these things.  Thus if one has the skill to do so - and Matt, I have to believe a player of your caliber most definitely does - it's not so simple to say the shot is always gonna be a putter.  I faced several in my round that I wished I could hit with a wedge, but didn't trust myself to do so... but figured many others indeed would.  You know, I faced the kinda shots that a putter could safely get to 15 feet (but still had to be judged damn well) but only a spinning wedge could get inside that.  This to me is a very strong positive.

TH

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2009, 01:45:19 PM »
Tom,
    Great opening post about Rustic. There is a reason why Rustic Canyon was my "home" course even though it was 350 miles from my house.

I have golfed with Matt once and he is an impressive striker of the golf ball but I must have missed his lack of a short game :), because putter is not the only option at Rustic. As some have pointed out not every course is going to be one's cup of tea and so Matt and Mike must be coffee drinkers. ;D
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2009, 01:51:22 PM »
Tom,
    Great opening post about Rustic. There is a reason why Rustic Canyon was my "home" course even though it was 350 miles from my house.

I have golfed with Matt once and he is an impressive striker of the golf ball but I must have missed his lack of a short game :), because putter is not the only option at Rustic. As some have pointed out not every course is going to be one's cup of tea and so Matt and Mike must be coffee drinkers. ;D

Ed - see my post above re response to Matt - I think we're on the right track.

But you remain insane for making it your home course.  That's OK though, golf fanaticsm is a fine form of insanity.

 ;D



Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2009, 01:52:19 PM »
I adored Rustic Canyon. I thought it was superb. I loved the contouring, the apparent simplicity and the playing corridors. The imagination required to chip the ball close to the pin was also something I liked.

I actually thought it was a course that would fit very well in the UK - it's very unlike most US courses I have played.

I also shot my best ever round there, which might have something to do with it ;-)

I hope to be back in October to have another go.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2009, 01:56:19 PM »
Huck,

I didn't read anything past your initial post but great job and thanks for bringing up a topic I think we can almost all agree on.  ;)

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2009, 01:57:33 PM »
Huck,

I didn't read anything past your initial post but great job and thanks for bringing up a topic I think we can almost all agree on.  ;)

"Almost" being the key word there - but thanks man.

 ;D

Tom B - this is indeed a rare course that would fit in quite well in the UK - and that is among the reasons why so many here do love it so.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2009, 01:58:21 PM »

Jed -

And thanks, I think ... but which "tough" course are you speaking about, Morgan Creek or Cal Club ? 

That's a joke.

I think we bookended high 80s scores at Cal though.

:)


Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the ineffective use of smileys is problematic ... and God is not a Gael ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 01:58:27 PM »
RC is a classic example of having to play a course a number of times in different conditions in order to really evaluate it's merits and flaws.  That doesn't mean you have to play it 200 times before you can judge it but you have to have some experience on it.

For instance, David M, Tom H and Anthony G were the last GCA group to go off on Sunday and when we got to #14 the hot Santa Anna blowing downwind was gone and we were faced with a cool breeze into our faces coming off the Pacific Ocean.  Totally different set-up now and instead of a drive to the left of the tree and a pitch or chip we were faced with a drive to the right of the tree and a mid-iron of more into the hole.  Same for #15, everyone else played it with a strong gale going right to left across the green, when we hit it it was blowing straight across left to right.

I am not an extra long hitter but in calm conditions I have reached every Par 5 with the exception of #10 in two shots and have seen many other people do it as well although admittedly it is not the norm and on many days is impossible because of the wind.

I think the key to understanding RC - and I am far from understanding it myself - is to realize that the greens and the slopes are the course's major defenses and on calm days maybe it's only defense.  So while a hole like #9 looks innocuous and can even seem easy, repeated play with various pin postions will tell you that it might be the most 3+-putted green on the course.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2009, 02:03:40 PM »
Exceedingly well said, David.

And this is perhaps why it hasn't received the course ranking love that it really should.

Man I thought the shifting winds were VERY cool.  Not many places you see that... wow.....

TH



Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2009, 02:28:14 PM »
I played Rustic Canyon about two weeks ago, unfortunately too early for this event.  I loved it; I promptly sent an e-mail to Geoff Shackelford telling him so.  I think it is an absoutely great execution and fulfillment of the intent.

My one complaint, my only complaint, is that there are too many long walks to the next tee.  The fact that Rustic is walkable at all is probably a testament to the designers' hard work and good intentions.  My next time there I'll have to break down, disappoint Geoff, and ride.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 06:37:09 PM by Chuck Brown »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2009, 02:44:45 PM »

2. Lack of variety around the greens. Sorry, but every time you miss the green, you putt. Where's the fun in that? I like chipping and think it's interesting. Options? Not really. You'd have to be crazy to hit anything except a putter. I think the course would be much better without those giant bentgrass collars that are basically extensions of the greens. Sturdier grass would introduce some uncertainty and decision making into shots around the green.

Why does everybody seem to ignore these flaws?

Matt,

I'm sorry I missed the gathering this year but having played Rustic Canyon but once, I must take exception to your thesis that you need to hit a chip or pitch to get the most enjoyment out of your game. I feel that one' s worst putt will inevitably finish closer to the pin than your best chip and isn't that what the game is all about?

Bob

Bob,

I agree 100% - putting, when available, is almost always the smart choice. If I played a tournament at Rustic, I'd probably putt every time I missed a green. When I played there (just once as well), I think I putted from off the green 8 times and chipped once, when I was in something like rough. That was how I felt I'd achieve my lowest score. However, I also felt that hitting the same shot over and over - a 60 foot putt - got pretty boring and predictable. I would have felt the same way about having 14 holes that all doglegged to the left, even though I enjoy hitting a nice high draw. Just don't make me hit it on every single hole.   :)


Tom,

Interesting point about shots that could get to 10 or 15 feet with a putter but closer with a wedge. I can imagine such a situation but didn't see any when I played.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2009, 02:50:10 PM »
Matt,
Would you feel differently about the par 5s if they were reachable for you with 2 superb shots?
As David Kelly has mentioned, all are reachable under different conditions and that's part of the appeal for me.  With no wind, they each take a different pair of shots to get there in 2. 

13 is one of the rare par 5s that makes you think off the tee about where you position your first shot, and it is also one of the rare reachable par 5s that makes you question whether or not to go for it when you are in the edge of your reachable zone due to something OTHER than a fronting carry-based hazard. I.E. if the pin is front left, and you come up 20 yards short and to the right, good luck making 5.

I don't think the green is out of character with the rest of the course, but even if it was, it's still a brilliantly designed complex that allows for at least 3 strategic plays to left and right pins (the running shot, the direct play, or the back-stopped wedge)


David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2009, 02:58:55 PM »
13 is one of the rare par 5s that makes you think off the tee about where you position your first shot, and it is also one of the rare reachable par 5s that makes you question whether or not to go for it when you are in the edge of your reachable zone due to something OTHER than a fronting carry-based hazard. I.E. if the pin is front left, and you come up 20 yards short and to the right, good luck making 5.

On Sunday I was on the right side of the 13th fairway and had a 60degree wedge in my hand for my 3rd shot  to the front left pin and was pretty dead.  When I pitched my ball too far I ended up in a very bad place above the pin position and ended up with a 6.

I need to start laying up with irons on the left side when the pin is there even if I am 50 or 60 yards further back because its just too hard to approach that pin from the right side.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2009, 03:05:33 PM »
13 is one of the rare par 5s that makes you think off the tee about where you position your first shot, and it is also one of the rare reachable par 5s that makes you question whether or not to go for it when you are in the edge of your reachable zone due to something OTHER than a fronting carry-based hazard. I.E. if the pin is front left, and you come up 20 yards short and to the right, good luck making 5.

On Sunday I was on the right side of the 13th fairway and had a 60degree wedge in my hand for my 3rd shot  to the front left pin and was pretty dead.  When I pitched my ball too far I ended up in a very bad place above the pin position and ended up with a 6.

I need to start laying up with irons on the left side when the pin is there even if I am 50 or 60 yards further back because its just too hard to approach that pin from the right side.

Case and point...I do not think you will find a more qualified case study to explore the excellence of the 13th hole.  I've played it probably 40 times, and D-Kelly has probably played it 5 times as many as I have, and it still either makes us think or punishes for not doing so.

I am sure David has, as have I, had many chances to go for the green in two, but screwed up the fairway wood shot and left oneself with barely a chance at making par.  Usually this is something reserved for holes with water hazards or forced carries, when your 2nd shot is hit somewhere unplayable....but to hit it in the fairway and still be staring a bogey in the eye?

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2009, 03:21:50 PM »

Tom,

Interesting point about shots that could get to 10 or 15 feet with a putter but closer with a wedge. I can imagine such a situation but didn't see any when I played.

I think you need to play it again, Matt.  I faced at least 3 of these just in my round the other day.  I can imagine MANY other circumstances.

And Ryan/David that is great stuff re 13.

You know another weird thing I noticed?  On 10, I "intentionally" got a great angle up that hole... by shiping a rope-hook left into dirt. Man it really was a comfortable shot from over there.  Never would have thought of it, seems so normal to stay straight/right/short of HHA bunker....

There's so much stuff like this at Rustic....

TH

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2009, 04:32:05 PM »
I don't think that using 1/9 of the compass really qualifies as variety in orientation. "Wow, just a few holes ago the wind was into me and left to right. Now it's left to right and into me. What variety!"

Matt,

Don't you tutor Maths?  40 degrees is only 1/9th of the compass when you can say a hole is orientated 320 degrees differently to another one.  Which of course you cant.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2009, 05:12:44 PM »
No one has mentioned it yet, but I am not in favor of the longish grasses around the fairway, cross or green side bunkers.

Instead of this:







I think this look would fit much better into the character of the wide-open green surrounds:


"... and I liked the guy ..."

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