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Niall Hay

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Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« on: April 08, 2009, 08:43:23 PM »
Scottish Courses – US Equivalents? A fun game we play in the clubhouse, pub or on a bar stool.....

Often times when I have American golfing friends they ask about certain courses in Scotland and how they compare to the courses in the US. We’re looking for relative parallels, not so much about the course itself but if the course was in the US which one would it be (club, membership, prestige, etc.) Ex: what is the Scottish Augusta?…might be a fun challenge and let me give you some more obvious examples and perhaps you guys can help come up with others or changes/alterations to the ones suggested….and why…

The Old Course – Pinehurst No.2 – Both respective golfing Mecca’s with Old Tom Morris playing the role of  father of golf in St. Andrews: the role Americans know Donald Ross to play in Pinehurst, NC.  Both towns are golf crazy, there are multiple courses in each with public access and an obvious star with TOC and No. 2. Both courses evolved over the years under the eyes of their designers...

Turnberry – Pebble Beach – Both staggeringly beautiful “resort” courses that have hosted their respective Opens. Both even have their Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus moments in time and amazing sunsets on their countries West Coasts. Both are accessible for those willing to pay for the experience (even were both owned by Japanese at one point). As good as it gets for some at each.

Carnoustie – Oakmont – Famously difficult Open venues. Very much respected as brutal courses for both the pros and the average player. Both courses pride themselves on that history of challenge.

You get the point; others may be more challenging…here goes some…

One could argue the concentration of golf courses in Ayrshire is similar to that of Long Island and the Southampton area in particular. The cluster of Troon/Prestwick/Western Gailes being like Shinnecock/National/Maidstone. So with that in mind:

Royal Troon – Shinnecock Hills, it probably plays more like a Winged Foot (as far as difficult/challenging reputation). More famous Open venue that has a higher visibility due to its recent hosting of the majors.

Prestwick – National – less well known that its more famous (to average player) neighbor but has as rich a history if not greater than its next door neighbor.  Prestwick is the Home of the Open, National is home of US golf (C.B. MacDonald and OTM being major influences). Neither membership seems to mind being "under the radar" and not hosting a tournament. They are comfortable with their place in history.

Western Gailes – Maidstone – even less well known than either course (above). Some like more than the others.

Loch Lomond – Augusta – Beautiful parkland layouts with very prestigious memberships and are known by few other than the members to they very private clubs.

Dornoch – Cypress Point – Perhaps the purest links experience in Scotland, almost holy for hardcore golfers. Home of Donald Ross.  Cypress is equally religious for those who get the chance to experience. Both have great respetive scenery.

Muirfield – Pine Valley – Both are very private and generally considered the best golf courses in their respective countries. Both have a Colt influence and most golfers will never experience. Incredible places.

Gleneagles  - Sea Island – an awesome resort with several great golf courses. Very expensive and worth it although not quite the level of some of the “great championship” courses but the hotel and amenities make up for the experience.

Kingsbarns– Sand Hills– relatively new course who changed the way we looked at what was possible in the new century.  First of their kind and started a new trend in the way courses were in designed in their countries.

See what you think and add others that have not been mentioned or change it to your own matches.  Where do Machrihanish or North Berwick fit? Cruden Bay? Who is the Prairie Dunes of Scotland?


Philippe Binette

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 08:53:16 PM »
I get the point...

Even thought it's not in Scotland

Royal Lytham and Garden City

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 08:55:11 PM »
I like it!

Matthew Schulte

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 09:16:03 PM »
Niall:

Interesting comparisions.

Perhaps Whistling Straits is a better equivalent for Kingsbarns than Sand Hills is from the standpoint of them both being massive earth moving projects that turned farm land into links.

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 09:32:20 PM »
Good call. Any others you can think of?

Philippe Binette

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 09:47:07 PM »
Maybe,

Machrihanish and Highland Links... tip of a peninsula, long drive to get there... stand alone course where you battle against nature (I haven't been to Highlands Links, just reporting comments)

North Berwick ?????




Matthew Schulte

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 10:02:06 PM »
Niall:

North Berwick is sort of the sacred cow in these circles but how about Tobacco Road as its' quirky US mate? 

Royal Aberdeen is similar to Spyglass Hill in that on both courses the front 9 and back 9s almost feel like two different golf courses.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 10:04:20 PM by Matthew Schulte »

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 10:14:39 PM »
The Mach, Aberdeen and N. Berwick are great.....can see the logic! Keep em comin! 

mike_beene

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 11:12:42 PM »
How about Gullane and Augusta in the similar use of big hills category?

mike_beene

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 11:15:06 PM »
One more:Oakmont and Muirfield for the look out at the whole course from the clubhouse.Two beautiful views.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 11:20:31 PM »
I'm LOL - or maybe chuckling - about this exercise. 

Only Pebble Beach plays anything like the links of GB&I where the Open championships are played.  You can compare Gullane and Augusta, or Carnoustie and Oakmont, all you wantl, but there is no comparison whatsoever!

But have fun!  ;)

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 11:36:24 PM »
Agreed that the courses don't play like the links style of The Open, this is more about the exercise of matching up parallels about the perceptions of the club and things like location or views or history or prestige. Of course the courses themselves and how they play won't be the same or even close.

As for Pebble being the only one like it, but Shinnecock might be similar as Pebble for the Open.

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 11:38:17 PM »
The perception of Car-nasty and Oakmont is pretty similar from the tour player to weekend warrior! That is a similarity that they share regardless of one being links and one being landlocked near Pittsburgh...

mike_beene

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 11:44:37 PM »
Bill,I would come more near agreeing with you in the days before sprinklers were installed on the scottish links.However,to me Pebble feels less linksy than Oakmont.In fact,with its wet conditions,small greens and forced carries,Pebble is the poster child of the inland parkland experience.I cant remember ever playing a run up ther(at least on purpose)Oakmont has run ups.

ed_getka

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 12:39:14 AM »
For me Dornoch and Prairie Dunes go together because they are both the most balanced tests of golf I have played. Every aspect of your game is tested in equal measure and yet you do not feel like your head is locked in a vise at the end of a round (the US Open experience!), you just want to get back out there and play another round.

I haven't been to Myopia but I have a hunch that may be the course that matches up with North Berwick for the quirky essence of golf.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2009, 06:45:34 AM »
To Bill McBride:

I would say that Shinnecock Hills, National Golf Links and Garden City play more like a links than Pebble Beach in the US...


Ross Tuddenham

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2009, 07:20:53 AM »
What about Machrihanish and Sand Hills

Another One for Augusta might be Bliargowrie Rosemont course, does not have such an exclusive status but still a McKenzie.  To be fair it is quite posh for Scotland.

What about in combination Kingsbarns and the new castle course and Bandon Dunes resort, If you stay Just outside St Andrews you might get a similar resort feel in a nice old Scottish cottage?

Anthony Gray

Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2009, 07:21:42 AM »
The Mach, Aberdeen and N. Berwick are great.....can see the logic! Keep em comin! 


  There is no match for Cruden Bay either. Which also speaks of its greatness.

  Anthony


Anthony Gray

Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2009, 07:23:03 AM »


  NI.....but what is the match for RCD?...........Pac Dunes?

  Anthony

   

Bill_McBride

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 08:09:31 AM »
Bill,I would come more near agreeing with you in the days before sprinklers were installed on the scottish links.However,to me Pebble feels less linksy than Oakmont.In fact,with its wet conditions,small greens and forced carries,Pebble is the poster child of the inland parkland experience.I cant remember ever playing a run up ther(at least on purpose)Oakmont has run ups.

I guess I've been unlucky, for I've played four rounds over the years at Oakmont and never found it to be fast and firm, much less linksy in feel.

Of course twice it was actually raining and all this was pre-tree clearing.  ;D

Bill_McBride

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 08:11:42 AM »
To Bill McBride:

I would say that Shinnecock Hills, National Golf Links and Garden City play more like a links than Pebble Beach in the US...



But Philippe, the name of the place is "Pebble Beach Golf Links!"  ;)

Haven't played Garden City or Shinnecock, agree that NGLA plays more like a links than PB.  Good observation.

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2009, 08:26:44 AM »
What about Dundonald and Sebonak or Friars Head? A new course with famous old school neighbors....

Dan Boerger

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2009, 08:36:30 AM »
Fun and interesting thinking Niall. I might match up Cruden Bay with Yale -- both high on the quirky scale without being tricked up.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

bbarkley

Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2009, 09:43:40 AM »
Braid Hills - Pacific Grove Municipal

Both relatively inexpensive to play, and are simple courses with spectacular views.

Niall Hay

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Re: Scottish Courses – US Equivalents?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2009, 10:07:32 AM »
Maybe,

Machrihanish and Highland Links... tip of a peninsula, long drive to get there... stand alone course where you battle against nature (I haven't been to Highlands Links, just reporting comments)

North Berwick ?????

I really don't know much about Highland Links...the one is Mass? What is history?



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