Alex Findlay Meets with Hugh Wilson / AWT chats with CBM

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike - more great info.

I think it's safe to say that Merion East has lost none of its charm

[henrye]

It also seems to me to be a good question if some are claiming that "others" in Findlay's article meant other Macdonald type template holes AT MERION that Macdonald was responsible for and which Findlay claimed were 'really great' then why had not Macdonald done the same thing for this so-called "Alps" template iteration at Merion that Findlay claimed Wilson was struggling with? 

Tom.  It's possible that if CBM only spent a limited amount of time there (I think you suggested 2 days) that his "Alps" hole was not so great.  Wilson may be struggling with how to fix it up?

A couple of other items that seem peculiar to me in this article is the use of the present tense in describing "But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great".  Everything else in the paragraph is past tense.

Lastly, if Wilson had just returned from the UK and CBM didn't lay out any of the holes at Merion, why does Findlay even mention CBM at all?  Nowhere do they discuss Wilson's trip to NGLA.

[Mike_Cirba]

Hi Henry,

For detailed answers to your first two questions, I'd refer you to my posts 30 and 37 on this thread.

The last question is answered, as well, but short version is that Macdonald is mentioned because he is the one who recommended which great holes and courses Hugh Wilson should visit in Europe.   In effect, he "laid out" Wilson's itinerary.

[TEPaul]

"Lastly, if Wilson had just returned from the UK and CBM didn't lay out any of the holes at Merion, why does Findlay even mention CBM at all?  Nowhere do they discuss Wilson's trip to NGLA."

henryE:

I think Findlay mentioned CBM because he was speaking about using European models for holes and obviously CBM had recently become well known (NGLA) for the use of and proposal to use hole models from abroad.

[DMoriarty]

Joe Bausch,

Thanks for posting another terrific article.   Out of curiousity, have you posted all of the found articles  mentioning CBM's and/or Barker's role in the creation of Merion East?     Thanks again.

___________________________

HenryE:

I agree with your common sense reading and frankly find the alternate interpretations to be untenable, at best.   

Here is what Findlay wrote:
I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.


From this we know that, according to Findlay:

-   Wilson mistakenly thought ("imagined") he had built a good "Alps" hole at Merion.

-   Findlay disagreed, and told Wilson to take a closer look at the real thing.   

-   After viewing Prestwick, Wilson agreed that Merion's Alps hole needed a lot of work. 

-   While Findlay did not like the early version of Merion's Alps Hole, he thought that "many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great."

The article also confirms that there was no earlier study trip abroad.

_____________________________

Dan Herrman:

To name two, neither Myopia nor NGLA had "verbatim copies of 'old world' templates."  Both are American and predate Merion.   Plus, the article indicates that Wilson was trying to build a hole based upon an "old world template," even though he had never seen the old world hole.

[Joe Bausch]

Out of curiousity, have you posted all of the found articles  mentioning CBM's and/or Barker's role in the creation of Merion East?     Thanks again.

No.

Have you?

[DMoriarty]

Out of curiousity, have you posted all of the found articles  mentioning CBM's and/or Barker's role in the creation of Merion East?     Thanks again.

No.

Have you?

I think so.  As far as I know I have posted, provided, and/or referenced every such article I have.    If I come across any that haven't been posted I will surely post them.   But I am on the wrong side of the continent, so my access to the actual articles is somewhat limited.

Do you suppose we could take a look at the other article(s) mentioning CBM's and/or Barker's role in the creation of Merion East.

I am sure we are all curious as to what else is out there.

Thanks.

[TEPaul]

I've always felt with some of the famous courses from this early era it would be so instructive to be able to compare "preconstruction" topo map countours of the property with the contours of the finished product.

Probably top on my list of preconstruction topo countour maps to compare to the finished product would now be Merion East, without question.

I've been reading the first six months or so of the letters between Hugh Wilson and Russell Oakley and it appears Fred Pickering came on board with Merion about the beginning of July 1911 (provided Pickering actually is the unamed man Wilson is referring to with about twenty years of experience (which seems a bit long to me in that early era)). At that point the greens seem to be getting close to be ready for seeding.

I mention this about Pickering because obviously Pickering had a pretty good amount of experience with Alex Findlay and would continue to have experience with him.

The other thing that interests me so much about Wilson's correspondence with Oakley is even if recognizing that Wilson is talking with him about grass and agronomy and all the minutae relating to same there is preciously little ever mentioned by Wilson as what one might call actually shaping of man-made architecture on this course. It almost seems like they are essentialy just laying the course right on the natural contours of the site, and this is why I would love to compare the preconstruction contour lines with the finished product. In other words, it could be a whole lot more minimalistic, particularly the greens and their sites, with a few exceptions (such as the 10th), than any of us have ever realized.

When some referred to this course as an unusually "natural" one they may be speaking pretty literally.

Obviously the original Alps 10th was a notable exception on the course (particularly the remarkably high and manufactured rear of the green) and that might explain why Wilson seemed to be unhappy with it when mentioning to Findlay that it would "take a lot of making" to equal the original.

Also Wilson references the preconstruction topo map of Merion in his first letter to Oakley (he sent Oakley a copy of it) on Feb. 1, 1911. He refers to it as a blueprint. He does not specifically mention if any layout or holes are drawn on it at this point but he does call it "the course."   

Perhaps by "the course" he means the entire property but perhaps not.

BTW, Wilson and his committee visited Macdonald/Whigam at NGLA in the second week of March, 1911. By that time Wilson and his committee had generated 'numerous plans.'

[TEPaul]

If Hugh Wilson had experience with an Alps hole previous to creating Merion East it certainly would've been NGLA's but it also would probably have been Myopia's. This seems logical since Myopia was often mentioned before Merion got to work creating Merion East. George Crump was certainly familiar with Myopia and attempted to mimic some aspects of its 16th hole with his 12th green.

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe Bausch,

Thanks for posting another terrific article.   Out of curiousity, have you posted all of the found articles  mentioning CBM's and/or Barker's role in the creation of Merion East?     Thanks again.

Hi David,

Good to hear from you.  Hope all is well with you and your's.

I can answer your question.

Joe has done the lion's share of the research by a long shot, but one afternoon when we were in the free library of Philadelphia I came across the following article, which I only have a copy of, and not a digital copy or photo.

It's the only mention I've seen of H.H. Barker post June/July 1910, but since there was no confirming evidence in any other account, including the club minutes, we didn't make much of it, or at least I didn't.   And the fact that you still seem convinced the Macdonald did the work, as evidenced by your latest posts, probably means that you won't put much stock in it either.

However, for what it's worth, here's a report from the Philadelphia Press, Thursday, November 24th, 1910.   No byline is included, unfortunately.   Perhaps Joe knows who the primary golf writer was with the publication, but there are some other mistakes in this account so it may have been just a staff writer. 

I think you'll likely agree that the writer was not a golf writer, and he seems more interested in the railroad part of the deal and displays very little in the way of golf knowledge.   In fact, his comments seem much like boilerplate from some of the language in the June/July timeframe of that year.

MERION CLUB BUYS
FINE GOLF LINKS

Pays $85,000 for 117 Acres Near
   the Present Location at
         Lakewood

EXPERT TO LAY OUT COURSE

Lakewood, N.J. Nov 22 - As one result
of the recent deal involving $85,000 the
Merion Cricket Club, of Philadelphia, is in
the comparatively near future to have a new
golf links, which will be the equal to any course
in this country.   A syndicate, including among
others, W. W. Atterbury, a vice-president of the
Pennsylvania Railroad: Horatio Gates Lloyd, of Drexel
and Company, Philadelphia, A. F. Huston, Rodney Griscom,
and Robert W. Lesley, have bouth 330 acres of land
adjoining Haverford College, 117 acres of which have
been transferred to the Merion Club for golfing purposes.

The location is about two miles from
the present course.   Although the average price
paid for the land was $1800 an acre, the 117 acres was sold to the
Cricket club for $725 an acre, or less than half what they cost.   However,
the Land Improvement Company, which is the name of the syndicate that
succeeded another organization, expects to more than recoup itself by the
enhanced value which the linnks will give the adjoining property.

It is an $85,000 transaction for the Merion Club.

Will Be Famous Course

The club's present course occupies
72 acres owned by the Pennsylvania
Railroad for which a nominal rent of approximately $3000 a year
has been paid, also 30 acres owned by Clement A. Griscom, who has always
given the use free.   However, as the land owned by the railroad company is
likely to be lost any day, it was decided to buy a new course outright, which
will eventually be made to compare favorably with Myopia, Garden City, and other
famous links.   Most of the property was owned by the Pennsylvania Railroad.

The Philadelphia and Western Railroad, a third rail fast trolley, is to have a
station practically at each end of the course, affording exceptional transportation.

Herbert M. Barker, former Irish amateur champion, and now professional at
Garden City has been secured to lay out the new course, and says it can scarcely be beaten in this country.    Herbert J. Whigam and Charles B. Macdonald
both of New York, and national amateur champions in the early days of the sport,
have also gone over the property carefully and agree with Barker.

HenryE:

I agree with your common sense reading and frankly find the alternate interpretations to be untenable, at best.   

Here is what Findlay wrote:
I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.


From this we know that, according to Findlay:

-   Wilson mistakenly thought ("imagined") he had built a good "Alps" hole at Merion.

-   Findlay disagreed, and told Wilson to take a closer look at the real thing.   

-   After viewing Prestwick, Wilson agreed that Merion's Alps hole needed a lot of work. 

-   While Findlay did not like the early version of Merion's Alps Hole, he thought that "many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great."

The article also confirms that there was no earlier study trip abroad.

David,

You're certainly correct that this article confirms no prior trip abroad by Hugh Wilson.   I'm glad that matter has been laid to rest and I think that was a very valuable find on your part.

I think the rest of your interpretation of the Findlay article is pretty strained, as you have to add "imagined" words that Findlay or Wilson never used to make each of your points;  little action verbs like "built" , or subjective adjectives like "good" that you've just kind of snuck in there like they were parts of the original text just tend to change the whole meaning of the article, don't you think?     Or is that your intent??   

Very nice try, though!  Especially impressive after all of this time...nice to see you still have the old touch! 

In any case, we've been down this road before and I've seen the MCC Minutes and you haven't had that privilege, so once again, as I've said on another thread, I think your paper did have some really good value in that it sent a few of us into digging up a whole lot of information on Hugh Wilson and early Philadelphia golf that not only has academic research value, but that may end up having actual positive impact on the ground in the case of Cobb's Creek.

I certainly don't want to get into another lawyerly debate about the meaning of words.   I'm perfectly comfortable that the truth is now known and CB Macdonald did have a advisory role in helping the Merion Committee select the best of their 5 routings on a single day onsite in April 1911, about a month after the committee had visited him at NGLA for an overnight stay.   

As Findlay points out, and the minutes confirm, Macdonald also recommended which courses Hugh Wilson should visit abroad to view his "ideal holes" in person.   That lore turns out to have been quite accurate.

It also turns out that Alan Wilson meant exactly what he said when he used the plural, when he said that CB Macdonald "advised as to our plans."

Apparently, this was nothing new, much less novel.   A full seven years prior, the 1905 New York Sun article I posted above talks about Macdonald doing "friendly advisor" work all over the important east coast clubs in the early days of golf.   I think that's great, personally, and I'm sure he was very helpful and a real advocate for good and sound golf design.

However, are we to then give Macdonald design credit for every east coast club where he might have spent a day or two with the inhouse committees?

It also turns out that the local Philadelphian "inside golf" guys like Tillingast and Findlay, who were there and witnessed the process,  were dead-on when they credited Wilson and Committee with the design and construction at Merion.  Given your interpretation of Findlay's article that you've just expressed, don't you find it very odd that Macdonald isn't even mentioned in Findlay's opening day review of the course?   

As far as those minutes, I heard earlier this week that the Flynn book that Wayne Morrison has been working on is now going to press, so I'm hopeful you'll get a copy and we can finally put this matter to rest.   My understanding is that it will include verbatim accounts of those MCC minutes, which make very clear that no routing was approved (despite the many iterations of "plans" the committee devised) til late April, 1911, with Robert Lesley reporting for Hugh Wilson and Committee to the Board.   They will also make clear that Macdonald recommended which of the Committee's plans to use, and that's the plan that went to the board for final approval.   Somewhat magnamoniously, Macdonald says that if they use that particular plan, they will have the finest 7 finishing holes in the country.    They will also make clear that both the 3 acres that Macdonald recommended they buy back in July 1910, as well as the land along Golf House Road that was swapped in the Francis Land Swap Deal were both purchased after that approval date in late April 1911, prior to construction.   Once you see them, the timelines of everything should become much clearer.

As it turns out, partially due to the work you've put forward and the corresponding research in reaction to it, Macdonald's role as a superb advisor to the Merion Committee was confirmed and probably even accentuated, but what we now also know in much greater detail than ever before is that Hugh Wilson kicked some serious ass, and fully deserves to be known as he always has been as the architect of Merion.   

  

[DMoriarty]

Mike:

1.  "Herbert M. Barker, former Irish amateur champion, and now professional at Garden City has been secured to lay out the new course, and says it can scarcely be beaten in this country.    Herbert J. Whigam and Charles B. Macdonald both of New York, and national amateur champions in the early days of the sport, have also gone over the property carefully and agree with Barker."

Interesting you guys decided that this wasn't even relevant enough to bring to light, especially given the date of the article. 

2.  As for the Findlay article, I quoted Findlay directly.  Here, again, is what Findlay wrote:

"I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great."

Nothing about Macdonald's travel advice to Wilson.  Nothing about his other courses or holes.   Certainly nothing as creative as "He 'laid out' Wilson's itinerary."

 Just read the words.  Findlay didn't like Merion's Alps Hole. "But many of the others as laid out by Charles McDonald, are really great."

3.  Given the above two examples and others past, I am sure you will understand why your take on the meeting minutes is far from dispositive.   Whether you know it or not, there is much more in those documents than what has been thus far acknowledged.    Regardless, no use discussing these documents until we can all see them.

[TEPaul]

The Flynn book is now going to press?? 

Wow, that's great to hear because it sure has been a long time in the researching and making! However, since my name is on the book with Wayne Morrison I wish I'd been told it was about to go to press. Would anyone care to tell me the name of the "press" that's publishing it? 

The truth is the book is now on our own DVDs and it is in the process of editing. Wayne has spent the last couple of months on a complete edit run-through, and at the moment I would say it is still in the editing, fact-checking and confirming, rewriting and perhaps some rearranging mode.

In this modern world of technology does it mean a book has gone to press when we put it on our own DVDs to more easily work on it and transport it? 

If that's true I wish someone told me that too. But one thing I can guarantee is that if I'm going to have anything to do with this book I sure will insist that it will not go out to anyone again like a former contributor to this website who about four to five years ago without asking asking the permission of the authors or even mentioning it to them took an incomplete, unedited and certainly unpublished portion of it and put what it said on here and criticized its accuracy and its authors!

Nevertheless, without quoting from the book that does contain MCC meeting minutes transcriptions, I don't mind discussing in a general sense only, and certainly in a non-adverserial and unargumentative way how some subjects, issues, people and events that are relevent to this particular thread are presently being treated and cast in this unfinished and certainly unpublished book. 

Hopefully that can help contributors to this website who are still interested in these lugubrious discussions of the history of Merion East and who have heretofore not been privy to certain material that has not yet been put in the public domain understand where we are coming from with it and how----and hopefully it can help us too.

[TEPaul]

When we have found relevent material (and if we find more) on the entire history of Merion East golf course, whether it be newspaper or magazine articles, personal reports of those involved at the time or intimately familiar with the course and time, we will quote them and explain what we feel they mean. When this book is published of course we're just fine with anyone drawing whatever conclusions they want about any of it and what it means.

1. With H.H. Barker, what we know at this time is that he was hired in June, 1910 to do a drawing of a course on land that was at the time not completely decided on by MCC and which would not be purchased from the developers/owners for about six more months. We also know from a letter by Barker to one of the developer/owners (Connell) at that time that his drawing was what he referred to as "a rough sketch."

We also know from a July 1910 report to the MCC Board of Directors by the MCC Search Committee created to find new land for MCC's golf course that Barker was not hired by MCC but by that developer/owner (Connell) who was not part of MCC and not an MCC member as were all the others on the MCC Search Committee.

We have been aware of various newspaper reports (perhaps for years now) including the one from Nov. 1910 by some unamed writer posted above that MCC had hired Barker to do their new course. As far as we can tell that was not true and the reason we believe that is there is absolutely no mention at all of Barker from MCC itself and its own records AFTER that July 1910 report of the MCC Search Committee to the MCC Board that the independent developer/owner of the land had brought in Barker on his own account ("on his own account" is the way the MCC Search Committee report explains independent developer Connell's hiring of Barker and that it was not MCC that had hired Barker).

We do understand that when some on here today see something like that Nov 1910 newspaper article by some unamed reporter (posted above) that they tend to put a lot of stock in its accuracy. We think they tend to do that simply because they are only considering that single article in a vacuum (they are not comparing it to MCC's own records from that time and following that time).

But the truth is there is a ton of supporting material from that same time, just before it and following it contained in MCC's own administrative records that explains in detail what MCC was doing about the design and creation of their new course to come, and none of it had anything to do with Barker. Those administrative records of the club explain in some detail the work of the commttee that was formed at the end of 1910 or very beginning of 1911 that only consisted of Wilson and four other members of MCC (Griscom, Lloyd, Francis and Toulmin) that was charged with routing, designing and creating the new course.

And it goes without saying, at this point, that those administrative records of the club also mention the advice and counsel that C.B. Macdonald and H.J Whigam lent to the club on three separate occasions during what appears to be a day in June 1910, two days at NGLA in early March and a single day in early April 1911, the latter two being with Wilson and his committee (at that point the former Search Committee had been disbanded or actually somewhat merged into a new committee with Wilson and its chairman).

A report to the board in mid-April 1911 explains what Wilson's committee had done to that date which included the creation of 'numerous plans', the two day trip to NGLA, followed by the creation by the Wilson Committee of five different plans (how different we don't know and may never know without seeing them). In early April Macdonald/Whigam returned for a single day and went over those five plans and the grounds and seemingly selected one of those five plans and said they would approve of it.

It is therefore our contention that Merion's own history has always been correct and its history book is correct in saying that Wilson and his committee were the designers of Merion East with some 'kindly help and advice' from fellow gentlemen/amateurs Macdonald and Whigam.

It is also our contention that given Macdonald and Whigam were presented five plans by MCC on April 6, 1911 and that they spent only a single day with them and at Ardmore (the MCC minutes say a single day), that it would've been virtually impossible given the total lack of time for Macdonald and Whigam to have routed and designed a golf course on that site in a single day. 

Naturally, anyone can disagree with that contention and try to assume and conclude either on this DG or in some essay that Macdonald/Whigam could've or did virtually create their own routing and course design in that single day. If someone wants to do that and contend it on this website then by all means be our guests. If they do however, I, for one, certainly reserve the right to consider them to be pretty poor golf course architecture analysts and GCA historians! And I have a hunch Merion GC probably will as well if they don't already.

[TEPaul]

As far as the accuracy of Macdonald setting Wilson's itinerary in his GCA study trip abroad that lasted some duration between about March 2 to May 1, 1912, we have never seen any actual evidence of that fact from that time. We do recognize that has apparently been passed off as a fact in more recent years but the point is, some in-depth "timelining" of this kind of thing generally shows it to be what it really is-----eg just speculation.

To me it would seem fairly logical to assume that given that Wilson and MCC did state back then that Macdonald and his son-in-law Whigam had advised them on their Merion East project but noone I know of from back then actually involved with the project said it.

It would certainly not surprise me if Wilson was more directly advised on his itinerary over there by his good friend George Crump as Crump had spent about three months over there doing the very same thing in the end of 1910.

Here's another fact that I think is really interesting and in the end of these analyses should probably reveal a lot about just what was going on with MCC, the Wilson Committee, and the creation of the course in 1911, and that is from app. the end of 1910 until the middle of July 1911 the golf course was not even owned by MCC OR the recently formed MCC Golf Association (Co)----it was owned by Horatio Gates Lloyd (a member of Wilson's committee) AND his wife!! 

[Mike_Cirba]

2.  As for the Findlay article, I quoted Findlay directly. 

David,

Actually, you didn't just use Findlay's exact words.   Instead you spun them as such, adding your own interpretive verbiage;

From this we know that, according to Findlay:

-   Wilson mistakenly thought ("imagined") he had built a good "Alps" hole at Merion.

-   Findlay disagreed, and told Wilson to take a closer look at the real thing.   

None of the bolded words were written or even implied by Findlay.  They are your words, your implication, and your interpretation.   

As far as the single November article, there is no supportive evidence that ever mentions Barker again, and the property Barker considered later changed.   That's why it was given no credence.

Besides, didn't you just tell us that a proper interpretation of the Findlay article is "Macdonald laid out many great holes at Merion" even after Findlay tells us he isn't even ready to discuss the possibilities of the new course given its state of immaturity?   If you're sure that Macdonald laid out Merion, then haven't you already dismissed Barker, as well? 

You first tell us that Macdonald had to be the one who designed it, and now fault us for not giving a single, unsupported Barker article any credence because there is no corresponding evidence.  Yet you  purposefully misrepresent, ignore, and dismiss again and again the vast mountain of evidence we've supplied since your original article was produced that credits Hugh Wilson, including tens of news articles, and vouches from Tillinghast and Findlay.   

Your inconsistency in determining which news articles are valid and which are not is rather convenient, don't you think? 

I think at this point your "Anybody But Wilson" motives are pretty self-evident.   I'm not sure what you have against the guy, but he certainly is deserving of better.


Tom,

I didn't mean to misrepresent the state of the book.   I had heard that it was going to be distributed by DVD for some very valid reasons, not the least of which is the size, and I also knew it was being edited and finalized.

You also raise a good point about Wilson's trip and Macdonald.   I also meant that Macdonald recommended Wilson's itinerary in a broad sense, as Macdonald had been trumpeting the "ideal holes" abroad here in the states for at least a decade at the time Wilson went overseas, so virtually everyone in golf knew which holes and which courses were given Charlie's public blessing.   He had also emulated quite a number of them at NGLA by then, of course.

I had also assumed from memory that the minutes supported direct recommendations of where to visit from Macdonald but I'm evidently wrong as you'd know better.   Perhaps I assumed when they spent that one day going over the course at NGLA (which is supported by the minutes) that there was a lot of discussion about which holes overseas were being copied there by Macdonald and assumed that Macdonald had recommended these as ideal for Wilson to visit.

[Joe Bausch]

The November 24, 1910 article off of microfilm from the Philadelphia Press newspaper:

[TEPaul]

Mike:

The MCC minutes say nothing about Macdonald recommending to Wilson where to go abroad or even anything about any particular kind of hole to consider for Merion East. The minutes from 1911 only mention that Macdonald and Whigam were back at Ardmore for a single day to go over the grounds again and the plans that the Golf Committee report given by Leslie on the Wilson Committee said the Wilson Committee had generated throughout 1911 to that date in the middle of April when the board meeting was held.

I would assume the information in Leslie's report was probably given to him either in writing or verbally be Wilson. As to what Macdonald and Whigam and the Wilson Committee did and talked about during those two days in the second week of March 1911 all we've ever had was the report I just mentioned plus a report Wilson wrote in 1915 or 1916. The latter has been on here in the past a few times. The report on the Wilson Committee by the board in April 1911 has not been transcribed on here for the reasons we have given also a number of times----they belong to MCC not Merion GC and they have never been in the public domain as far as I can tell. Clearly that doesn't seem to matter to some on here but it matters to us if it matters to MCC.

As far as Wilson's trip abroad, obviously we now know he went over there just about a year after that meeting at NGLA and that visit from Macdonald/Whigam to Ardmore. We also know his trip abroad was considereably shorter than had previously been reported (perhaps six to seven weeks max compared to the six to seven months that seem to have had some currency in the last four decades or so).

So with just that information available so far who set Wilson's itinerary is just speculation even though we do see in this Findlay material that he claims to have mentioned to Wilson that he should see the original "Alps" hole at Prestwick before he left.

As to Merion having a number of template holes from abroad as Macdonald had at NGLA, it looks to me that Merion considered that and tried to do some of it (Alps, Eden, Redan) in the beginning but then in the next few years seemed to prefer to get away from that kind of thing. That has been the story around Merion for years and it's looking pretty true to me. Some, like Herbert Warren Wind, later wrote that Wilson was far more general in his interpretations of architectural principles from abroad at Merion than Macdonald had been at NGLA and it also looks to me like Wind was right about that.

I suppose it's a pretty good question as to how or why Findlay even knew Hugh Wilson or why he came to walk the course with him but it now seems certain that Findlay and Fred Pickering had already had many common projects in architecture in the past (before that June 1912 article posted above) and would continue to work together on common projects in the future.

[TEPaul]

"Whether you know it or not, there is much more in those documents than what has been thus far acknowledged."

Mike and Joe:

Look at that remark from the long lost Merion essayist!

He has never laid eyes on that material but somehow he seems to know there is much more in them than has thus far been acknowledged on here. That's a pretty neat trick, don't you think? To me it says a lot more about this laughable "Philadephia Syndrome" nonsense from a couple of people on here in the past than it says about the architectural history of Merion.

[TEPaul]

Joe:

Thanks for posting that November 24, 1910 Philadelphia Press article again. We've seen it before but have no idea who wrote it, not that that really matters. Nevertheless, a plethora of recorded material from the administration of the club around that time and in the days and weeks and months to follow undeniably indicate Barker was never hired to lay out a golf course for MCC (you should note, one of the titles to the article says Barker "To lay out a course"----eg that would indicate the future). Matter of fact, Barker was never actually hired by MCC itself at any time, not in June of 1910 when he did that "rough sketch" of property that would not be purchased for about six months and perhaps not even in the exact form Barker was looking at and at no time after that.

The fact is it just didn't happen that way in the months and years to come and the club is rife with documentary written material of it.

To me this is a really good example of how and why information in some newspaper articles should always be taken with a grain of salt as to its accuracy. Apparently some on here cannot understand or accept the fact that if a newspaper article says something will happen in the future that it may not have actually happen that way when the time came. Perhaps people who think that way do not appreciate well enough that things often change regarding what is sometimes reported may happen in the future. And that is definitely the case with that particular Philadephia Press article about MCC and Merion East golf course and its Wilson Committee.

To even assume that Barker was hired to lay out the course and that actually happened it would virtually make total liars out of the entire Board of Directors of MCC, its Golf Chairman Robert Leslie and Hugh Wilson, his brother, and Hugh Wilson's committee et al and everything that was recorded and reported after that particular article was written in Nov. 1910. Matter of fact, it would probably make liars out of Tillinghast, Findlay and even Macdonald and Whigman too! 

I think this might call for a new essay on here on how exactly literally scores of people involved at a golf club in those days, including the people and writers they knew well could all get together and agree on and produce a total lie as to who designed a particular golf course.

What was that movie in the last few years where some Hollywood producer got together with some screwballs in the US Government's administration and created a totally bogus production in a studio in Hollywood of a war in middle Europe that never happened at all? This new essay could be GCA's version of that. 

Wait a minute, don't we already have an essay like that about Merion on here?  

If, at this point, anyone really interested in this particular subject is contending all those people got together and created a total lie, then I really don't think they should be on this website and they surely should not try to pass themselves off as credible golf architecture analysts and historians----not on Merion at least. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

Rather than a movie it's probably more like a bad soap opera, or perhaps a better analogy is something like "Horror Movie", with frequent, recurring sequels, each one worse than the previous.

Speaking of conspiracy and saying that multiple folks were in on a lie, it's probably a good time to again recall exactly what Alan Wilson wrote.   Alan Wilson was a very important leader within Merion and a very good golfer, as well, all the way back to the 1890s and their first courses.   This is what he wrote;

Merion’s East and West Golf Courses

   There were unusual and interesting features connected with the beginnings of these two courses which should not be forgotten. First of all, they were both “Homemade”. When it was known that we must give up the old course, a “Special Committee on New Golf Grounds”—composed of the late Frederick L. Baily. S.T. Bodine, E.C. Felton, H.G. Lloyd, and Robert Lesley, Chairman, chose the site; and a “Special Committee” DESIGNED and BUILT the two courses without the help of a golf architect. Those two good and kindly sportsmen, Charles B. MacDonald and H.J. Whigam, the men who conceived the idea of and designed the National Links at Southampton, both ex-amateur champions and the latter a Scot who had learned his golf at Prestwick—twice came to Haverford, first to go over the ground and later to consider and advise about our plans. They also had our committee as their guests at the National and their advice and suggestions were of the greatest help and value. Except for this, the entire responsibility for the DESIGN and CONSTRUCTION of the two courses rests upon the special Construction Committee, composed of R.S. Francis, R.E. Griscom, H.G. Lloyd. Dr. Harry Toulmin, and the late Hugh I. Wilson, Chairman.

   The land for the East Course was found in 1910 and as a first step, Mr. Wilson was sent abroad to study the famous links in Scotland and England. On his return the plan was gradually evolved and while largely helped by many excellent suggestions and much good advice from the other members of the Committee, they have each told me that he is the person in the main responsible for the ARCHITECTURE of this and the West Course. Work was started in 1911 and the East Course was open for play on September 14th, 1912. The course at once proved so popular and membership and play increased so rapidly that it was decided to secure more land and build the West Course which was done the following year.
   These two committees had either marked ability and vision or else great good luck---probably both—for as the years go by and the acid test of play has been applied, it becomes quite clear that they did a particularly fine piece of work. The New Golf Grounds Committee selected two pieces of land with wonderful golfing possibilities which were bought at what now seems a ridiculously low price (about $700. an acre). The Construction Committee LAID OUT and built two courses both good yet totally dissimilar—36 holes, no one of which is at all suggestive of any other.
   The most difficult problem for the Construction Committee however, was to try to build a golf course which would be fun for the ordinary golfer to play and at the same time make it really exacting test of golf for the best players. Anyone can build a hard course---all you need is length and severe bunkering—but it may be and often is dull as ditch water for the good player and poison for the poor. Unfortunately, many such courses exist. It is also easy to build a course which will amuse the average player but which affords poor sport for players of ability. The course which offers optional methods of play, which constantly tempts you to take a present risk in hope of securing a future advantage, which encourages fine play and the use of brains as well as brawn and which is a real test for the best and yet is pleasant and interesting for all, is the “Rara avis”, and this most difficult of golfing combinations they succeeded in obtaining, particularly the East course, to a very marked degree. Its continued popularity with the rank and file golfers proves that it is fun for them to play, while the results of three National, numbers of state and lesser championships, Lesley Cup matches, and other competitions, show that as a test of golf it cannot be trifled with by even the world’s best players. It is difficult to say just why this should be so for on analysis the course is not found to be over long, it is not heavily bunkered, it is not tricky, and blind holes are fortunately absent. I think the secret is that it is eternally sound; it is not bunkered to catch weak shots but to encourage fine ones, yet if a man indulges in bad play he is quite sure to find himself paying the penalty.
   We should also be grateful to this committee because they did not as is so often the case deface the landscape. They wisely utilized the natural hazards wherever possible, markedly on the third hole, which Mr. Alison (see below as to identity—W.R.P.) thought the best green he had seen in America, the fourth, fifth, the seventh, the ninth, the eleventh, the sixteenth, the seventeenth, and the eighteenth. We know the bunkering is all artificial but most of it fits into the surrounding landscape so well and has so natural a look that it seems as if many of the bunkers might have been formed by erosion, either wind or water and this of course is the artistic result which should be gotten.
   The greatest thing this committee did, however, was to give the East course that indescribable something quite impossible to put a finger on,---the thing called “Charm” which is just as important in a golf course as in a person and quite as elusive, yet the potency of which we all recognize. How they secured it we do not know; perhaps they do not.
………..The West course was designed particularly for the benefit of “the ninety and nine” and for low cost of maintenance, in both of which respects it was most successful. Very little bunkering was done but the ground was rich in natural contours and hazards and they were utilized in an extremely clever way. While not as severe as the East, it is a real test for even the best of players as was shown in the qualifying round of the National championship in 1916.
It is so lovely to look at that it is a pleasure to play and I like to remember the comment of Mr. C.H. Alison of the celebrated firm of Colt, Mackenzie and Alison—British Golf Architects---who, after going over both courses said: “Of course, I know the East is your championship course; yet while it may be heresy for me to say so, I like this one even better because it is so beautiful, so natural and has such great possibilities. I think it could be made the better of the two.”
   Having spent so many years playing bad golf over good courses I have come to believe that we members of Merion have for all season use about the most attractive golf layouts I have seen; two courses quite dissimilar in character and in play, in soil and scenery, both calling for brains and well as skill, very accessible, lovely to look at, pleasant to play, yet real tests of golf, with excellent bent fairways and fine greens. The East course recognized as one of the half dozen regular choices for National championship play, and the West capable of being made just as exciting a test should that ever been deemed desirable. We certainly owe a debt of gratitude to those two committees which by their hard work, foresight, good judgment and real knowledge of the true spirit and meaning of the game of golf evolved and built so well for Merion.   

[TEPaul]

"Tom,

Rather than a movie it's probably more like a bad soap opera, or perhaps a better analogy is something like "Horror Movie", with frequent, recurring sequels, each one worse than the previous.

Speaking of conspiracy and saying that multiple folks were in on a lie, it's probably a good time to again recall exactly what Alan Wilson wrote.   Alan Wilson was a very important leader within Merion and a very good golfer, as well, all the way back to the 1890s and their first courses.   This is what he wrote;"


Mikey:

Oh, I don't know----I don't think I would say that. I think it's all kinda fun; at the very least it certainly is funny. I realize much of it is minutae, but Hey, that's what some of us on here are into, right? 

A few years ago I did not quite appreciate what a remarkable man Alan Wilson was in the world of early American golf and I am sorry to hear some of the things that have been implied about him on here and what he wrote about the creation of Merion such as that report he wrote in 1926 was either hyberbole or just some inaccurate paean and attempt to glorify his recently departed brother.

If William Philler, the thirty five year treasurer of MCC who was in the process of writing the first history of MCC thought that's what he was going to get out of Alan Wilson or that Alan didn't know much about the entire creation of those golf courses, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have asked him to write that report for him.

As a golfer he was probably just OK----I very much doubt he ever gave his brother Hugh much of a run for his money on the golf course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom,

Somewhere I have something from the 1890s where Alan Wilson is called one of the top golfers in the area.

Of course, since about 100 people were playing golf in Philadelphia at that time, that might not have been too much of an accomplishment. 

By the way, "Horror Movie" IS a comedy.    It's just a very bad one. 

[TEPaul]

"By the way, "Horror Movie" IS a comedy.    It's just a very bad one.   "


So is the GCA "In My Opinion" essay "The Minimized and Mutilated Faces of Merion." I'm sorry, I mean "The Missing Faces of Merion."   

You know what that wonderful Welsh MP Aneiran Bevan said: "You've got to take humor wherever you can find it."   

I'm not sure how "dispositve" that quotation is or whether its more than a little "untenable" under the circumstances but I'm trying to do my best anyway. 

[Mike_Cirba]

The November 24, 1910 article off of microfilm from the Philadelphia Press newspaper:

Joe,

Since that article says that Barker will "Lay Out" the course, can we assume that Barker was constructing with shovel-in-hand as per the following definition included in David's essay? 

"Wilson next credited Macdonald and Whigham with giving the committee a “good start in the correct principles of laying out the holes.”  In so doing, Wilson was not abruptly changing the topic to golf course design.  To the contrary, Wilson was discussing the construction of the course, and was being quite literal.   He was charged with laying out the course on the ground.   According to Oxford English Dictionary, to “lay out” means to “construct or arrange (buildings or gardens) according to a plan.”   This was precisely how Wilson used the phrase.  “Our problem was to lay out the course, build, and seed eighteen greens and fifteen fairways.'  The committee had to arrange and build the holes on the ground according to plan, and Macdonald and Whigham gave them a good start in understanding how to do so."

"Wilson’s entire discussion of his role focuses not on the planning, but on the building."


Tom Paul,

The following from Hugh Wilson in 1916 is where I made my assumption that Macdonald had told Wilson which courses to see overseas, and which holes to study.   I had mixed up this with the MCC minutes.   

Irregardless, I agree that Wilson likely had other advisors in this regard like Crump, and clearly Findlay, and probably even others of the Merion Committee like Lesley and Perrin who went abroad frequently.   However, Macdonald was the one who really trumpeted the idea, so in many ways, he laid out the itinerary of quite a few travelling golfers at that time, history would suggest.

"We spent two days with Mr. Macdonald at his bungalow near the National Course and in one night absorbed more ideas on golf course construction than we had learned in all the years we had played. Through sketches and explanations of the correct principles of the holes that form the famous courses abroad and had stood the test of time, we learned what was right and what we should try to accomplish with our natural conditions. "

 

[TEPaul]

Mike:

Right, I forgot how that essay characterized what Wilson and his committee actually did----eg actually BUILT the golf course THEMSELVES to some phantom Macdonald/Whigam routing and design plan or perhaps H.H Barker's 1910 "rough sketch" for non-member and real estate developer Connell.

Can't you just see Wilson and particularly a couple of captains of industry like Rodman Griscom and particularly Drexel & Co partner, Horatio Gates Lloyd, out there on that Ardmore site in the heat of that 1911 summer with their suit jackets and vests off, their neckties loosened and their sleeves rolled up digging on bunkers and shit and being told what to do by the likes of the semi-inebriated project foreman Fred Pickering!?!

I'm sure it probably happened just like that and if it did how in the hell could Merion have possibly NOT created a world class golf course?!  Maybe our esteemed GCA essayist can find that long forgotten newspaper article by the highly respected golf reporter Ebenezeer Wiffensnoofer that reports that Hugh Wilson was a pretty good golfer, a respected golf agronomy expert and pretty good on architecture (after about ten years of being a "NOVICE" ) but that Man could he ever, and right outta the old proverbial "Box" with little to no training, wield one mean shovel and hoe!