[Doug Siebert]

Here is one more "cartoon" as some call them.  These are all taken out of the Masters Programs.  Isn't it strange how they never could remember to put Pat's trees into the little diagrams  Heck in this one from 1995, they are so clueless that they show the line of play down the left side right into where Pat says there were trees   And clearly they forgot to neck down the fairway back then as well!

I've only seen it on TV, but I don't buy the differences shown in these diagrams.  It looks like what happened is that they took a rather generic presentation of the trees that many course maps & scorecards used to have and make a more realistic drawing of the hole for the later program that shows the actual tree locations - something that many course maps & scorecards have done in the past 10 years also.

It isn't just the trees.  I notice the newer diagram shows the pond back left of the green, which isn't there on the older one.

[John_Cullum]

I don't ever recall large tree in play on the right either, nor are there trees in play long right of the green, at least not the way they are shown in the diagrams from 95 and 97

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

I don't ever recall large tree in play on the right either, nor are there trees in play long right of the green, at least not the way they are shown in the diagrams from 95 and 97

John,

The diagrams are NOT an accurate depiction of the hole.

Dismiss them as worthless.

Look at the actual photos, they're more representative.

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
Why didn't you answer these two questions?  I'm guessing it is because you don't wanted to admit the correct answers 

'Forget the darn trees, just tell me two things - was the 15th fairway ever 50 yards wide (give or take a few yards) in the primary landing area?  And second, is the primary landing area now constricted such that the opening is at most half of what it once was? 

As I said above, if you can't answer these questions correctly, then you being obstinate just to argue. 

[JSlonis]

John Cullum,

Old photos, circa 1934 seem to show saplings planted in many areas, including between holes.

It would be interesting if we could get photos from historicphotos.com or classicphotos.com or whatever the site is that JSlonis got the pictures of PV from.

Those photos would reveal when trees were planted, bunkers removed and all other changes to the golf course. 

I do know that after the 1959 US Open at WF, that the club embarked upon a serious tree planting program.

That may have been one of the factors that caused club after club to plant trees in the 60's and 70's.

The photos would reveal the info we seek.

Pat,

The site is historicaerials.com

I checked for Augusta National but there aren't any older aerial photos of the course that you could use.  On their site, 2002 is the oldest...not exactly "historical" enough.

[George Pazin]

Charlie-

That is great work!  Need more trees on left as penalty....because the way that green sits every would want to go to the left, so there needs to be a tighter spot over there than on the right.  Otherwise a great idea!

Chip

When did Jones or Mackenzie ever speak of using trees as penalty?

Charlie's photoshop work is impressive, but I find the ideas nauseating.

[JESII]

Mark,

Those answers are obviously yes, I am curious to hear your follow up point.

I aksed a question that has fallen on deaf ears as well...are there any holes at Augusta which have lost the aggressive / exciting line of play due to narrowing?

[Charlie Goerges]

Edit: I may have misinterpreted who was saying what about the 15th so I am editing my comment.

Original image:





Same image with what I believe to be #15 circled in green:

[John_Cullum]

I would say fewer can go for 15 because it's narrower. 7 was always a narrow hole. 17 was never an aggressive play allow by width

[JESII]

John,

Re: #15 - Do you think the narrowness has eliminated the aggressive line off the tee? Or just the bailout line they used because they didn't need the optimal line to reach the green in two?

[John_Cullum]

I wouldn't say right was a bail out. It was a afe way to play and still be able to get on the green if you were a long hitter. Ian Woosnam hit 15 in 2 from outside the ropes the year he won

[JESII]

John,

I think that might be the definition of the term...

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