[Bill Shamleffer]

Home Sweet Home for me...MICHIGAN

MICHIGAN
° 1 Crystal Downs C.C.
Frankfort ★
° 2 Oakland Hills C.C.
(South)
Bloomfield Hills ★
° 3 Arcadia Bluffs G.C.
Arcadia ★ ◆
° 4 Tullymore G.C.
Stanwood ★ ◆
° 5 Indianwood G. & C.C.
(Old) Lake Orion
° 6 Forest Dunes G.C.
Roscommon ◆
° 7 Lost Dunes G.C.
Bridgman
° 8 True North G.C.
Harbor Springs
° 9 Point O’Woods G. & C.C.
Benton Harbor
° 10 Black Lake G.C.
Onaway ◆
° 11 Franklin Hills C.C.
Franklin
° 12 R&S Sharf G. Cse.
Rochester
° 13 The Kingsley Club
Kingsley
° 14 Shepherd’s Hollow
G.C. (2nd/3rd) Clarkston ◆
° 15 Oakland Hills C.C.
(North) Bloomfield Hills
° 16 Wuskowhan Players
Club West Olive
° 17 Eagle Eye G.C.
East Lansing ◆
° 18 The Wyndgate C.C.
Rochester Hills
° 19 TPC Michigan Dearborn
° 20 Bay Harbor G.C. (Links/
Quarry) Bay Harbor ◆
° 21 Lakewood Shores
Resort (Gailes) Oscoda ◆
° 22 Treetops Resort
(Robert Trent Jones)
Gaylord ◆
° 23 Marquette G.C.
(Greywalls)
Marquette ◆
° 24 Elk Ridge G.C. Atlanta ◆
° 25 Timberstone G.C.
Iron Mountain ◆

I really get confused with that UP.  I always thought Greywalls was in Wisconsin.

Secondly, I really enjoyed what I saw of Indianwood on TV at the two Woman's US Opens.  If it's ranking as 5th best is not justified than either I was really fooled by the TV, or Michigan golf courses are spectacular

[Paul Carey]

If this works a PDF of the booklet can be found here: (cut it  and paste it in your browser)

files.me.com/jpaulcarey/ly4fwd

[Mike_Trenham]

And Pennslyvania
° 21 Philadelphia Cricket
Club (Militia Hill)

This is the Hurzdan and Fry course.  Correct?

[Bill Shamleffer]

If this works a PDF of the booklet can be found here: (cut it  and paste it in your browser)

files.me.com/jpaulcarey/ly4fwd

I have underestimated golf course architecture in the state of Missouri.  There are six courses better than St. Louis C.C.

And in Connecticut, the TPC course is better than Yale.

[Frank Sullivan]

If this works a PDF of the booklet can be found here: (cut it  and paste it in your browser)

files.me.com/jpaulcarey/ly4fwd

Thanks Paul, it worked just fine!!!!!

[Jim Colton]

Thanks!  

Chambers Bay is 37th in the top 100 public.

We knew Tullymore was ahead of Kingsley Club, which was bad enough...but Forest Dunes, True North and Black Lake too?  That's adding insult to injury.

[TX Golf]

How about CA and TX???

[Mike_Cirba]

And Pennslyvania
° 21 Philadelphia Cricket
Club (Militia Hill)

This is the Hurzdan and Fry course.  Correct?

Mike,

Yes, of course.   

You didn't know the Militia Hill course at Philly Cricket was superior to the Tillinghast Wissahickon course?   

It's probably very surprising news to the members, as well, but hey, the experts have spoken...   

[K. Krahenbuhl]

How about CA??

1. Cypress Point Club
2. Pebble Beach
3. Olympic - Lake
4. Riviera CC
5. San Francisco Golf Club
6. The Quarry at La Quinta
7. LACC North
8. Spyglass Hill
9. Monterey Peninsula Shore
10. The Preserve GC
11. Mayacama GC
12. Valley Club of Montecito
13. Porcupine Creek GC
14. The Bridges at Rancho Santa Fe
15. Sherwood CC
16. The Madison Club
17. Bel Air CC
18. Pasatiempo GC
19. Tradition GC La Quinta
20. Shady Canyon GC
21. Lahontan GC
22. The Reserve GC
23. Links at Spanish Bay
24. Bighorn GC Mountain
25. Stone Eagle Club
26. Winchester CC
27. Vintage Club (Desert)
28. Cordevalle GC
29. Torrey Pines South
30. PGA West Stadium
31. Bighorn GC Canyons
32. Trump National
33. La Quinta Resort Mountain
34. Pelican Hill GC Ocean South
35. Old Greenwood GC

[Tom_Doak]

Further to what I said about DIGEST raters being overly impressed by exclusivity on another thread:

They have rated Porcupine Creek (Blixeth's private course in Palm Springs) ahead of Bel Air and Pasatiempo!

[Jim Colton]

At best, Ballyneal is no better than 115th in the GD rankings.  These courses are outside the top 100 but above it (ignoring the 40 vote minimum)

Oak Tree - OK
Karsten Creek - OK
Indianwood - MI
Forest Dunes - MI
Annandale - MS
Fallen Oak - MS
Spring Hill - MN
Quarry at Giants Ridge - MN
Yeamans Hall - SC
Musgrove - SC
Kiawah Island (River) - SC
Wolf Creek - NV
May River - SC
Broadmoor - CO

There's probably others but there's no way to know for sure from the rankings.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

How the heck did you come up with that list?

[Tim Gavrich]

The CT list is pretty darn skewed, by my judgment.  Don't look down on the TPC because it's a TPC; it's a legitimately very good golf course.  It's certainly not as good as Yale, but it's pretty darn good.

The CT list seems to over-favor fancier courses that focus on prime conditioning (see Great River, the Lake of Isles courses).

Also, I am in disbelief at the lack of either the Greenbrier or Old White courses at The Greenbrier on the WV list.

[PCCraig]

At best, Ballyneal is no better than 115th.  These courses are outside the top 100 but above it (ignoring the 40 vote minimum)

Oak Tree - OK
Karsten Creek - OK
Indianwood - MI
Forest Dunes - MI
Annandale - MS
Fallen Oak - MS
Spring Hill - MN
Quarry at Giants Ridge - MN
Yeamans Hall - SC
Musgrove - SC
Kiawah Island (River) - SC
Wolf Creek - NV
May River - SC
Broadmoor - CO

There's probably others but there's no way to know for sure from the rankings.

Where did these come from?? Kiawah River?

[PCCraig]

If this works a PDF of the booklet can be found here: (cut it  and paste it in your browser)

files.me.com/jpaulcarey/ly4fwd

I have underestimated golf course architecture in the state of Missouri.  There are six courses better than St. Louis C.C.

And in Connecticut, the TPC course is better than Yale.

The MO list is screwed up...REALLY screwed up. 


The IL list just makes me shake my head.

[JNC Lyon]

Sean,
  Not a problem. I just sent the list to Paul Hopefully he can have it up soon.

Here is the Top courses in NY

NEW YORK
° 1 Shinnecock Hills G.C.
Southampton ★
° 2 Winged Foot G.C.
(West) Mamaroneck ★
° 3 Fishers Island Club
Fishers Island ★
° 4 Oak Hill C.C. (East)
Rochester ★
° 5 National G. Links
of America Southampton ★
° 6 Bethpage State Park
(Black) Farmingdale ★ ◆
° 7 Sebonack G.C.
Southampton ★
° 8 Garden City C.C.
Garden City ★
° 9 Winged Foot G.C. (East)
Mamaroneck ★
° 10 Quaker Ridge G.C.
Scarsdale ★
° 11 Maidstone Club
East Hampton ★
° 12 Hudson National G.C.
Croton-on-Hudson ★
° 13 Piping Rock Club
Locust Valley
° 14 Friar’s Head G.C.
Riverhead
° 15 Atlantic G.C.
Bridgehampton
° 16 C.C. of Rochester
Rochester
° 17 Oak Hill C.C. (West)
Rochester
° 18 The Bridge
Bridgehampton
° 19 Deepdale G.C.
Manhasset
° 20 The Creek Club
° 21 Crag Burn G.C.
East Aurora
° 22 Saratoga National G.C.
Saratoga Springs ◆
° 23 Atunyote G.C. Verona ◆
° 24 Sleepy Hollow C.C.
Scarborough
° 25 Trump National G.C.
Westchester Briarcliff Manor
° 26 Fenway C.C. Scarsdale
° 27 Westchester C.C.
(West) Rye
° 28 Shenendoah G.C.
Verona ◆
° 29 Kaluhyat G.C.
Verona ◆
° 30 C.C. of Buffalo

Great upstate representation!  CCR is a tad overrated in my book (a couple VERY weak RTJ holes and suspect greens, but the good stuff is great), but is still a great layout.  Oak Hill (West) might be the most underrated course in the state, with the best set of Ross greens you can imagine.  I'm more than a little biased on this one, but I am glad to see it on here.  It is NEVER discussed on this site.  Good to see CCB on the list as well.

Still...all of the Turning Stone courses ahead of Leatherstocking?! Really?  Leatherstocking is my second favorite upstate course behind the West Course, so I can't believe it fell behind the courses at TC.  People who rate Atunyote must win big at the Casino or be so wided-eyed at the price that they assume the course is great.  My upstate list goes something like:

Oak Hill (West)
Leatherstocking
Oak Hill (East)
Crag Burn
Monroe (a BIG omission, especially after a recent restoration by Gil Hanse that has dramatically improved the course)
CC of Buffalo
Teugega (another omission that needs a little tree removal)
CC of Rochester
Brook Lea
Park Club
Ravenwood

It's also surprising to see Friar's Head so low, but all of the courses ahead of it (except Hudson National?) are considered fantastic as well.  I guess there should just be more New York State privates in the Top 100!

[Carl Nichols]

TPC Potomac (f/k/a TPC Avenel) is ranked as the #14 course in Maryland but I'm pretty sure it hasn't even reopened (and thus, if that's right, no rater could have played it).

[Mike_Cirba]

JNC_Lyon,

The omissions of Leatherstocking and Monroe are really hard to understand.

I've not been to Oak Hill or Crag Burn, but I do like your list based on the courses we've both played.

[Carl Nichols]

JNC_Lyon, Mike Cirba:
Not to threadjack, but what's your view of Glens Falls CC?  I've heard decent things, and my dad recently moved into the neighborhood bordering the course, so I'll likely be in that neck of the woods more often.

[Jim Colton]

Jim:

How the heck did you come up with that list?

Ballyneal is 5th in Colorado, behind Broadmoor and ahead of Redlands Mesa.  Both those are in the public top 100, pretty close to each other.  So you know Ballyneal scored right between them, right?  So any of the top 100 publics ahead of Broadmoor but not in Top 100 overall are ahead of Ballyneal by definition, plus any of the courses ahead of them in the state-by-state rankings but not in the top 100.  I got 14.

[George Freeman]

Home Sweet Home for me...MICHIGAN

MICHIGAN
° 1 Crystal Downs C.C.
Frankfort ★
° 2 Oakland Hills C.C.
(South)
Bloomfield Hills ★
° 3 Arcadia Bluffs G.C.
Arcadia ★ ◆
° 4 Tullymore G.C.
Stanwood ★ ◆
° 5 Indianwood G. & C.C.
(Old) Lake Orion
° 6 Forest Dunes G.C.
Roscommon ◆
° 7 Lost Dunes G.C.
Bridgman
° 8 True North G.C.
Harbor Springs
° 9 Point O’Woods G. & C.C.
Benton Harbor
° 10 Black Lake G.C.
Onaway ◆
° 11 Franklin Hills C.C.
Franklin
° 12 R&S Sharf G. Cse.
Rochester
° 13 The Kingsley Club
Kingsley
° 14 Shepherd’s Hollow
G.C. (2nd/3rd) Clarkston ◆
° 15 Oakland Hills C.C.
(North) Bloomfield Hills
° 16 Wuskowhan Players
Club West Olive
° 17 Eagle Eye G.C.
East Lansing ◆
° 18 The Wyndgate C.C.
Rochester Hills
° 19 TPC Michigan Dearborn
° 20 Bay Harbor G.C. (Links/
Quarry) Bay Harbor ◆
° 21 Lakewood Shores
Resort (Gailes) Oscoda ◆
° 22 Treetops Resort
(Robert Trent Jones)
Gaylord ◆
° 23 Marquette G.C.
(Greywalls)
Marquette ◆
° 24 Elk Ridge G.C. Atlanta ◆
° 25 Timberstone G.C.
Iron Mountain ◆

I really get confused with that UP.  I always thought Greywalls was in Wisconsin.

Secondly, I really enjoyed what I saw of Indianwood on TV at the two Woman's US Opens.  If it's ranking as 5th best is not justified than either I was really fooled by the TV, or Michigan golf courses are spectacular

Bill,

I really like Indianwood - Old and would probably say it is as good as portrayed on TV (probably better), and I think 5th in the state is about right, although the preceding 4 courses would be different IMO.  I would think the top of the list would go something like this (subject to change on my mood ):

1. Crystal Downs
1. Kingsley Club
3. Franklin Hills
4. Oakland Hills (guessing, I have not played)
5. Indianwood - Old
6. Greywalls (guessing, I have not played)
7. Arcadia Bluffs
7. Lost Dunes
7. Forest Dunes

[Will Smith]

Jim-
Well done. Pretty clever and fast. Say what you will about all the rest of GD rankings, but Ballyneal is easily a top fifty course. GD is off by at least sixty, which is pretty darn significant. Maybe they should plant some trees out there to appease the raters.

[Andy Troeger]

Pinon Hills fell out of the top 10 in New Mexico 

[Chris Burgard]

I played Indianwood for the first time last year and really enjoyed it.

I am curious as to how an 85 year-old course jumps 21 positions in the rankings though.

[Matt_Ward]

Thanks Anthony for the Jersey listing.

A couple of quick comments ...

PV is clearly #1 in the Garden State so no issue there.

I cannot fathom the immense love Baltusrol Lower gets. I respect the tradition of the club and all the majors hosted -- with the PGA coming down the line in the years ahead but the overall design is a real yawn and frankly Tillie has done better elsewhere. How it maintains such a high rating likely is tied to the majors and the aura the club provides.

I can see the tough call between the likes of Galloway and Plainfield so I'll cut some slack. Candidly, Plainfield is just as solid a #2 as PV is at the #1 position. The only real link for the course is the final hole.

TF gets little real love on this site but his work at Galloway National is a gem and worthy of all the acclaim. Can't say for certain if it takes my #3 position but it's certainly a top five for me.

I have never loved Somerset Hills -- clearly its location near Golf House has helped -- ditto the influencers who have played there isn't all that shabby either. The green are the major item of concern -- I just see too many weak holes mixed among the stellar ones. For me it's borderline top ten and more likely just outside it.

If anyone serious believes The Ridge at Back Brook is ahead of Ridgewood CC please let me know. Ridgewood is one grand layout and can make a very solid case in challenging the likes of Plainfield although I see it just a bit behind.

The courses listed at #18 thru #20 are not at a class to be among th eelite best in the Garden State -- especially when the likes of Essex County, Montclair #2 & #4 nines, and Forsgate / Banks are not even mentioned. All three would claim top tier positions for me.

Baltusrol Upper is a better overall design in my mind than the Lower. I'd likely rate it ahead of its big brother but both layouts would not be top ten.

How Hollywood escapes the top ten is a mystery. Ditto about Essex County given all the fine work Hanse / Bahto did there.

I like Eric Bergstol's work at Bayonne and it would snare a top ten placement for me. I just don't see what all the fuss is about Liberty National -- extremely demanding but ultimately limited from a design perspective. If one plays Bayonne and Liberty National on the same day I can't see how the former doesn't win out for most people.

Trump's original 18 in Bedminster is far better than many might imagine given The Donald's tie in there.

Clearly, the C&C devotees fawn over Hidden Creek and it's a wonderful layout. I just don't see it among Jersey's top ten.

Mountain Ridge deserves a far better fate -- it is the better overall design to the likes of Metedeconk National -- and I would rate the 1st and 3rd nines as the best combo there -- not the 1st & 2nd as listed by GD.

I can see the likes of Hamilton Farm and ACCC rounding out a top 20. The only serious public contenders would be Ballyowen and Twisted Dune. Hard to imagine how other public layouts were mentioned and these two were left on the sidelines.

I'll be weighing in on the NY and Pennsy lists tomorrow ...

One quick comment ...

THE GREATEST OMISSION FOR THE EMPIRE STATE IS CLEARLY ...

Olde Kinderhook -- Rees Jones winning layout just south of Albany. Gets near zero attention but can make a strong case for a top ten placement in the state.

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