[Forrest Richardson]

http://www.jacksonville.com/interact/blog/garry_smits/2009-03-25/some_evidence_in_support_of_stanley_thompson_designing_hyde_par

Posted, with credit to the author...

Some evidence in support of Stanley Thompson designing Hyde Park

Submitted by Garry Smits on Wed, 03/25/2009

Maybe Stanley Thompson designed Hyde Park after all.

In an article in Monday's Times-Union about the controversy surrounding the original architect of the Hyde Park Golf Club in Jacksonville, we pointed out that there was no hard evidence supporting Donald Ross or Stanley Thompson as the original architect of the Westside course. No blueprints. No permits. No notes by the architect. Nothing. Not within the archives of the Donald Ross Society or the Stanley Thompson Society. Not in the Tufts Archives in Pinehurst, N.C., where Ross' papers and blue prints for other courses are stored.

However, after the article ran, veteran golf writer Geoff Shackleford sent me this ad from the June 1926 issue of The Canadian Golfer Magazine, which he said he obtained from Ian Patrick, another Canadian architect:

 

You'll note that Thompson lists "Hyde Park Golf and Country Club, Florida," as one of his designs. The course was opened six months after the ad appeared. However, the Tufts Archives and the Ross Society has always listed Hyde Park among Ross' works, and the Thompson Society's stance is that Thompson built the course and made some modifications off an original Ross design.

There's an obvious thought here: even though society likely wasn't as sue-happy in 1926 as we are now, I doubt Stanley Thompson would have claimed to have designed a course he did not, in a magazine ad for everyone to see.

The ad isn't like discovering the original blue print for Hyde Park (which doesn't exist). And a book of Ross' course philosophies published 12 years ago (with a forward by Ross' daughter) lists Hyde Park as a Ross course.

But this ad appears to be one small point scored in favor of Thompson as the Hyde Park architect. The debate goes on.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,5004.0.html

[Ian Andrew]

which he said he obtained from Ian Patrick, another Canadian architect:

We should invite that guy to the Toronto GCA meeting at Otter Creek

[Robert Thompson]

I don't know who that Shakleford guy is, and I've never heard of Ian Patrick, James Smith, or Jim Barkley.

Maybe the writer got something correct in his two articles about Thompson?

Signed.

Thom Robpson

[Chris_Blakely]

Beach Grove G & CC is a Devereux Emmet course that was built by Stanley Thompson.  Emmet mailed it in and Thompson built the course.  Emmet's name is found in the club meeting minutes as the architect of the course - but he did not build it.  The club says that it is a Thompson course because of his pedigree when it comes to Canadian architects.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Chris,

I don't know if you found this out before me or not, but it was about 10 years ago that I visited with Beach Grove's then-superintendent, Randy Hooper, who lent me a binder filled with historical info. he'd put together about the club and course.

Growing up in Windsor, Ontario, I'd long heard that Beach Grove was a Stanley Thompson design. But, the course is so mediocre and the routing so bad - well, it's an odd shaped tract to begin with - that as I learned more about golf course design, I began to instinctively question this fact.

I was stunned when I discovered captions from minutes of a Board of Directors meeting about 1919 or '20, in Randy's binder, that clearly tells Devereux Emmett "laid out" the Beach Grove course. I don't know if this was a "mail-in job" or not, but I certainly suspect it was. (And, I'm still wondering how the powers-that-be at Beach Grove came to ask Emmett, of all people, for a routing plan?) 

At the time of this "discovery", Beach Grove was heading into a bunker renovation project that was being labelled a "Stanley Thompson restoration" or sorts. Funny, I'll never forget Randy saying, we're probably better off keeping this quiet.

[Paul Stephenson]

which he said he obtained from Ian Patrick, another Canadian architect:

We should invite that guy to the Toronto GCA meeting at Otter Creek

He just got his patron saints mixed up.

[Ian Andrew]

Jeff,

I think it was RT who found out about Emmett being paid by Spalding to produce a rudimentary routing for new golf clubs for free - as a way of developing the game - and in turn developing a market for their product. If this were the case - I think it was your research that suggested all of this - Emmett would have given them a plan and never returned.

For reference: this was early in Thompson's career when he built a lot of courses for other architects too.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

I don't recall ever hearing about this relationship between Emmett and Spalding... very interesting.

It would kinda surprise me if Beach Grove was part of such a deal though (I could be wrong). The club was founded by a prominent group of wealthy men from Canada and the United States, including one of Hiram Walker's sons.

Then again, how else would these guys have come to Emmett?

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