[Roger Wolfe]

After an 11 month renovation we reopened without putting our hole signs back up on the course.  This is impossible for public facilities, but we are private and the members haven't really noticed.  We also do not have sand buckets on the part 3's or ballwashers or benches or any of the other "clutter" you find on most courses.  The members who used carts take their sand bottles on the par threes and the maintenance staff picks up the slack.  We have left the decision up to our superintendent... if he feels the divots are out of hand... he will make the call regarding sand on the tees.  For the occasional outing or unaccompanied guest play we provide a small course map.

So far so good and after my initial skepticism (and the fact we purchased custom made, subtle and inconspicuous hole signs three years ago for $10k), even I like the classical look.  Thoughts?

[Brad Klein]

Avoid any vertical intrusion, other than the occasional wooden bench set slightly off perpendicular behind a few tees, like par-3s.

Hole signs set in the ground are okay if they are no more than a little square plaque. Your members don't need to know where the next tee is, and if they get confused about parallel par-4 holes all in a row (to raise a hypothetical issue) it's too bad, they should play more often.

I'd also heed the advice of the Ross course in northeast Ohio that a few years ago came out of a massive restoration like yours and faced a gender equity issue by the woman, who demanded equal treatment on the provision of ball washers at their tees since all of the mens tees had them. The club agreed with the equity principle and opted to dispense with all ball washers.

[Mike_Cirba]

Only when they are super cool old ones behind greens...

[Bill_McBride]

Only when they are super cool old ones behind greens...

Mike, do you think the club put that "3" there to avoid confusion with another green that could conceivably have been the target?    Otherwise that's pretty dumb.......IMHO of course.

[Roger Wolfe]

I'd also heed the advice of the Ross course in northeast Ohio that a few years ago came out of a massive restoration like yours and faced a gender equity issue by the woman, who demanded equal treatment on the provision of ball washers at their tees since all of the mens tees had them. The club agreed with the equity principle and opted to dispense with all ball washers.

That brings to mind a "golf urban legend."  Women were complaining that men were urinating behind trees on the golf course.   The Board had a long and thorough conversation regarding the matter and issued the following statement, "After careful discussion, the board has decided that women are welcome to urinate on trees as well."

[Bob_Huntley]

I'd also heed the advice of the Ross course in northeast Ohio that a few years ago came out of a massive restoration like yours and faced a gender equity issue by the woman, who demanded equal treatment on the provision of ball washers at their tees since all of the mens tees had them. The club agreed with the equity principle and opted to dispense with all ball washers.

That brings to mind a "golf urban legend."  Women were complaining that men were urinating behind trees on the golf course.   The Board had a long and thorough conversation regarding the matter and issued the following statement, "After careful discussion, the board has decided that women are welcome to urinate on trees as well."

Roger,

Before Rees Jones removed it, we had a copse of Cypress Tress short and to the right of the Dunes 12th green. It was a useful place to relieve oneself.

The Board got a letter from a member and resident whose house was across the road from the tee complaining of the unseemlyness of such behavior. When asked how on earth she could see what was goinf on from a distance of nearly four hundred yards, her reply was, "I use binoculars."


Bob

[archie_struthers]

 


Wow, first tees , now signs , et tu beverage cart!

[Brad Klein]

Can someone with more technical skill than I have volunteer to post here a photo I'll send them from Fossil Trace GC in Col. warning golfers not to urinate near a house there?

B

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill,

Nope...those numbered signs were behind every green at Cobb's Creek in the years up to the depression, at least.

You don't think we should restore them? 

[ed_getka]

I don't think hole signs are necessary at a private course. However, unless the majority of golfers take a cart, I think that par 3's should have benches and sand for repairing divots. It just isn't a good idea IMO to have the grounds crew repairing all the divots on par 3's. Of course maybe your course 's golfers are different than all the other hundreds of courses I have seen and the majority of your members actually do sand their divots.

[Roger Wolfe]

I don't think hole signs are necessary at a private course. However, unless the majority of golfers take a cart, I think that par 3's should have benches and sand for repairing divots. It just isn't a good idea IMO to have the grounds crew repairing all the divots on par 3's. Of course maybe your course 's golfers are different than all the other hundreds of courses I have seen and the majority of your members actually do sand their divots.

Most of our members sand their divots, but we also believe our superintendent knows best when it come to course maintenance issues.  He HAS the buckets... they are sitting in the Turf Care Center (my favorite name) and if he decides to use them, so be it.  Remember sanding par 3 divots is a far different task than fairway divots or ball marks on the greens.  The damage is concentrated and an entire tee can be repaired in less than 10 minutes.  Plus have you ever tried to lift one of those sand buckets to move them when you move the tees??  100 lbs of awkward torture!

[Kalen Braley]

Bill,

Nope...those numbered signs were behind every green at Cobb's Creek in the years up to the depression, at least.

You don't think we should restore them? 

Mike,

Forget about hole signage...good god man, that is one awesome looking green and surrounds.  Why don't they build em like that anymore. It looks like the green includes that tree in the rear.  And the way how it sits tight into the hazard front right and back left is wicked cool.

Thanks for putting that up there.

Kalen

[Carl Johnson]

After an 11 month renovation we reopened without putting our hole signs back up on the course.  This is impossible for public facilities, but we are private and the members haven't really noticed.  We also do not have sand buckets on the part 3's or ballwashers or benches or any of the other "clutter" you find on most courses.  The members who used carts take their sand bottles on the par threes and the maintenance staff picks up the slack.  We have left the decision up to our superintendent... if he feels the divots are out of hand... he will make the call regarding sand on the tees.  For the occasional outing or unaccompanied guest play we provide a small course map.

So far so good and after my initial skepticism (and the fact we purchased custom made, subtle and inconspicuous hole signs three years ago for $10k), even I like the classical look.  Thoughts?

As a member of Roger's club, I have no problem with any of this.  I like the simplicity, personally.  The course maps are critical for the occassional outings and unaccompanied guests, however.  The hole signs were newly purchased and, as hole signs go, very simple and very attractive, with only the club logo and hole number on them.  However, that's $10K down the drain quickly, as Roger points out.  Regarding benches and ball washers, I'd go a summer season (our first will be this summer 09) and see what happens.  If the demand is there, we're going to hear about it.  The sand bucket issue I leave to superintendent's professional judgment.

[John Burzynski]

Not that hole signs are necessary, but at some courses, I think that the sign designs are kind of cool.    The signs, as well as styles of tee markers, often add to the ambiance of some courses, depending on the obtrusiveness and style of the sign.    

[Jason Topp]

Yes.  

One thing that seperates a great club from a snobby club is the manner in which the club makes guests feel welcome.  I expect my club to make my guests as comfortable as possible.  I want their day to be an enjoyable and memorable experience.  Hole signs allow a guest to at least know they are proceeding to the correct tee.

I've played a couple of courses without hole signs and it struck me as a forced effort by the club to prove that it is more exclusive than it is.

Put in a small sign. Those tiny green ones won't harm anyone.

[Kalen Braley]

I've always thought a nice compromise are the signs that show the hole number and arrow pointing to its direction that are etched into a rock or log.  They usually aren't unsightly, especially if its a rock or log indigineous to the area, yet still convey the necessary information.

[Roger Wolfe]

Yes.  

One thing that seperates a great club from a snobby club is the manner in which the club makes guests feel welcome.  I expect my club to make my guests as comfortable as possible.  I want their day to be an enjoyable and memorable experience.  Hole signs allow a guest to at least know they are proceeding to the correct tee.

I've played a couple of courses without hole signs and it struck me as a forced effort by the club to prove that it is more exclusive than it is.

Put in a small sign. Those tiny green ones won't harm anyone.

The signs in question...

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Nope...those numbered signs were behind every green at Cobb's Creek in the years up to the depression, at least.

You don't think we should restore them? 

No, but that's just me.

[Kalen Braley]

Can someone with more technical skill than I have volunteer to post here a photo I'll send them from Fossil Trace GC in Col. warning golfers not to urinate near a house there?

B

Here is the photo compliments of Brad Klein....you would think a course wouldn't have to post such a sign!!   

[tlavin]

Only if you have a confusing routing or if you have a lot of outings where people spread out to all corners of the golf course.  We don't have signs at Beverly, Olympia or the Dunes and we do just fine, thank you.  We might need the urination sign, however.

[Tim Leahy]

I have seen that same sign several times in No. Cal.
I would think that the walking members would appreciate benches and ball washers.

[C. Squier]

I've never understood the need for a ballwasher.  Doesn't one wipe their ball off before they putt, eliminating the need for a wash before they tee off?  It's like using a wetnap before you get the ribs.  If you insist on a washer, put it by the green (sarcasm).  As for benches, they're adult musical chairs.  Never big enough for a foursome, unless you like each other at a higher level.  If I'm walking, my towel is just fine on the side of a hill. 

As for Brad's sign, I have developed a serious case of on-course stage fright after being warned about jumping cholla.  Luckily I kept away from it during my trip to Phoenix, but have a new appreciation for this particular subset of flora.  My body is not a temple, yet this seemed like a risk too great to take. 

[J_ Crisham]

Clint,    I don't recall you guys having hole signs on either course-we don't have them now, but I know years ago we had tee plates that had the hole number on them. I know the first time I played the North course I went from your 1st green to your 11th tee just like the setup from the 2003 Open. Fortunately the caddy stopped me before I teed off. Hope to see you over at Beverly when the weather cooperates-keep in touch,   Jack

[Tim_Cronin]

That's a pisser of a sign, I must say.

[J_ Crisham]

Tim,  when is the good book being released?   Any chance of purchasing a few with some inscriptions?  Let me know. Hope to see you at Beverly for the Evans day on June 26th.  Wish you well,    Jack

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