[Sean_A]

I was looking at the Valley Club of Montecito thread again and I was quite astonished by the photo below.  The lie looks so incredibly lush.  Bernardo wrote somewhere that one of the main differences between parkland and links golf is the lie.  Meaning on parkland courses the player gets considerable help in getting the ball in the air while on links the player has to do all the work himself.  Of course, the photo of the "links" is Kington, but for all intents and purposes Kington is a links - in the sky. 

Anyway, the difference in the type of lie afforded by the turf is strikingly evident in a comarison of the photos.  The aerial game seemed to come more in prominence with inland golf.  Assuming this is true, do folks think that difference in the lie of the ball had much to do with the emergence of aerial golf?





Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

To me the most striking contrast is not in the lies but in the nature of the ground between the ball and the flag.  On the first picture I would never think of bumping and running the shot.  On the second one this possibility is very much alive.

rich

[Anthony Gray]

  I'm going to putt thast ball in the secound photo.


  Not so much the lie ,but the thickness of the grass.

  Anthony

[Neil_Crafter]

Rich
Bumping and running at Kington would see plenty of bumping - and running too - given the vary curious dimpled effect of the turf there. Sean - any idea what is the underlying reason for the dimpled look at Kington?
But yes, that lie at VC is just too nice and you could hit any club you so desired from a lie like that, even driver if required.

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean - thinking of all the courses you've profiled here, I'd almost say that "The lie IS the architecture".   That the nature and quality of the turf on England's courses has traditionally influenced the design of those courses seems to me a given, i.e. to observant architects, the turf seems to have given over the years a countless number of hints/instructions as to what golf holes could and should be.

But that's come off sounding a lot more assured than I intended. (It just poured out after reading the posts on this thread). So, what do you think?   

Peter

[Greg Murphy]

. . . one of the main differences between parkland and links golf is the lie.  Meaning on parkland courses the player gets considerable help in getting the ball in the air while on links the player has to do all the work himself. . . Assuming this is true, do folks think that difference in the lie of the ball had much to do with the emergence of aerial golf?

Sean,

I agree juicy fairways make it easier to get the ball in the air but I'm not sure it follows that toasty fairways add to the workload of the links player. Since toasty fairways make it easier to hit the ball low, does that not help the links player every bit as much as juicy fairways help the player who is required by the course to hit it high?

I'm not sure about causation, but there is a correlation between juicy fairways and aerial golf and a correlation between toasty fairways and ground golf. And it has to do with making it easier to hit the shots demanded. It is easier to hit it high but harder to hit it low when fairways are juicy. Conversely, it is easier to hit it low but harder to hit it high when fairways are toasty. The natural "fit" therefore seems to be juicy fairways on courses that demand high shots (often courses with significant elevation changes and little wind) and toasty fairways on courses that demand low shots (typically windy and often flat sites).

Adding lushness to links golf would actually add difficulty, no?

[Sean_A]

Neil

I don't know caused the presumably many thousands of mini hollows or cups.  My best guess is razing sheep, but that seems a bit far fetched. 

Rich

You are right about the difference between the pix in what they suggest.  Kington always leaves the player with loads of options.  The thing which is difficult about the choices it is very rare for one to be the obvious best choice.  Anthony states he would get the flat sick out.  You say a bumper could do the trick.  Flying it to the firm greens requires a deft touch as they are nearly always firm and run with the contours just as the fairways suggest.

The unique aspect of Kington is the cups.  Trying to hit a floater bump and run is dicey business if the ball lands in the upslope of one of the cups - it droops to the ground like a duck with a belly full gun shot.  Most of the time one has to hit the bumpers firm and this is when all those strange earthworks around the greens can be of great help.

Greg

I am not so sure softening up a links makes it harder.  Sure, it will play longer, but much more easily predictable. 

I really don't know if parkland golf ushered in aerial golf, but the two events seem to at least coincide. 

has anybody come across writings about the emergence of the aerial game or has it just been a gradual shift in style of play?  Regardless, I have to believe that softer greens and modern design helped make the aerial game what it s today.  So why wouldn't thisbe the case with the fairways?   

Peter

Can you point to any articles which back you up?  I suspect you are right, but it would be interesting to read how folks thought about the changes as they were happening.

Ciao

[James Bennett]

Sean

that picture of the 6th tee at VC of Montecito - it is a picture of the tee.  Check my original post on this - I believe I commented explicitly that it wasn't a ball, but a tee marker, emphasising the use of short grass from green through to tee. 

Also, that picture is taken in March, which is after the rain season in California.  Hence the greener grass.  When was the Kington picture taken?

Your hypothesis on parkland golf vs linksland golf may be sound.  I just wouldn't use a picture of a tee marker after the rainy season and claim a good lush lie for a golf ball. 

James B

[James Bennett]

But yes, that lie at VC is just too nice and you could hit any club you so desired from a lie like that, even driver if required.

Most people do use a driver on #6 at Valley Club, within 2 club lengths of the white tee marker pictured.  They generally tee the ball up.  It is the 6th tee after all.

James B

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