Mmmmmmmm Camargo

[John Pflum]

I can neither confirm nor deny the means by which I may or may no be able to play this course in the near or not so near future.  I can also neither confirm nor deny that I may or may not be looking forward to it.  I can also neither confirm nor deny that I will have my digital camera handy. 

I *can* confirm that I remember being on the grounds every year as a kid during a July 4th fireworks show.  We were supposed to stay in the rough (not that I knew what that was when I was eight years old) but we snuck out to play football on the fairways anyway and got yelled at. 

[John Mayhugh]

I live in Louisville and finally got a chance to play Camargo last year.  It's a great place.

[JLahrman]

Have fun John.  That looks like the #11 green in the picture.

[Billsteele]

Camargo has the best set of Raynor par threes that these Raynor starved eyes have seen. The par fours are also very good. The only downside of Camargo is that the par fives are pretty mundane. However, that would not stop me from right now dropping everything I have to do and making the two hour drive to Indian Hill to play it. Camargo also gets extra points for having Jack Twyman (former Cincinnati Royal and ABC color commentator when they had the NBA in the early 70's) and reclusive Neil Armstrong ("That's one small step for man...") at the same patio table enjoying a post round libation.

[George Freeman]

John M,

Can you post some more of your pictures of Camargo?  I know you have more than just that one 

Thanks!

George

[David Whitmer]

I was fortunate to have a friend who was the assistant professional at Camargo when I was a club pro here in Cincinnati, so I was able to play Camargo quite often from 1997 - 2004...probably 50 times during that stretch. It's just a fantastic golf course. I agree with Billsteele that the par 3s are unbelievably good, while the two par 5s are fairly vanilla.

If you are on your game, Camargo will yield plenty of good scores. However, if you are not having a good day, you will not score well. I played there one week with a fellow club pro, and he birdied #1, #2, #13, and #17, and parred everything else for a 66. The very next week I watched him shoot a 79.

[Lou_Duran]

Talk about a course that's all about the greens!  They'd roll them, speed them up well over 10', and tuck the pins for qualifiers and bring the long knockers down to their knees.  I only played the course once courtesy of an acquaintance in Columbus.  The experience is fantastic- loved the side by side Redan and Biarritz (right?), but I am not sure that I' like a steady diet.  My host was most gracious, even invited me to come back and play with him in a guest tournament, but I got the impression that it was not a particularly friendly club to outsiders.  Are my perceptions faulty?

[John Mayhugh]

Bill,
I can make it there in 1.5 hours, so as soon as you hit the road let me know!   

George,
I do have quite a few more photos, but will need to upload them first.  It might take several days as I think photos without some basic commentary (e.g. hole number, length, key observations) isn't nearly as useful.

David,
How hard was it to play lesser courses?

Lou,
I played Camargo as part of a threesome purchased at the Labbance auction (thanks to Bill Steele for inviting me along!).  The member that hosted us was great and I thought everyone I encountered there was very friendly and welcoming. 

[TEPaul]

I'd like to take this opportunity to recognize Tom Cecil who I understand is Camargo's new head pro. He was at GMGC a few years ago during his career journey onward and upward! He also loves golf course architecture and is extremely knowledgeable on it. We used to have some fine conversations about architecture and various courses in the pro shop. He came to us from Fishers Island. He's seen some great architecture in his journeys.

[John Mayhugh]

I'd like to take this opportunity to recognize Tom Cecil who I understand is Camargo's new head pro. He was at GMGC a few years ago during his career journey onward and upward! He also loves golf course architecture and is extremely knowledgeable on it. We used to have some fine conversations about architecture and various courses in the pro shop. He came to us from Fishers Island. He's seen some great architecture in his journeys.

I met Tom when I was there last year.  I was wearing a Mountain Lake shirt (hoping for some Raynor karma) and he introduced himself.  We talked about golf architecture for a while and after he mentioned having been at Gulfph Mills, I asked if he knew you.  I won't repeat what he said (because unfortunately it was too complimentary  ). 

He has been at some great clubs.  I really enjoyed meeting him and his hospitality.

[JLahrman]

Did Gary Thullen retire/move someplace else?

The club definitely does not seek a lot of publicity.  Hosting tournaments or showing up on any sort of ranking is not a priority.  They do host a US Am qualifier, but staying off the radar screen is more the goal.  It's not an unfriendly place at all, it's just a nice quiet club that would prefer to stay out of the limelight (and does a pretty good job of it).

Regarding the course, #8 is the Biarritz and #15 is the Redan.  The greens are very large, and while they do not have a lot of lumpy contours (apart from a couple of notable exceptions), they are very tricky to read.  Most greens have a slight overall slant to them (see picture above) and you will have long putts due to the size of the greens.  Put the two together and your putt tends to trickle below the hole.

The course runs over, around, and through the valleys.  It's interesting that almost every green winds up being at the same height as the hole's tee, although it will not seem like it when you are walking up the numerous hills on the course.  The course is a ton of fun to play.

[John Pflum]

Bill,
I can make it there in 1.5 hours, so as soon as you hit the road let me know!   

Bill -- I have a better idea.  First one to the entrance to Camargo wins.  I can be there in 15 minutes.  :-) 

[David Whitmer]

David,
How hard was it to play lesser courses?

John,

I don't find it hard to play "lesser" courses. Every time I played Camargo or any other course considered to be the elite courses, I tried to never take it for granted. It was a great treat every time, nothing less. Sadly, it was not my every day reality, but that's okay. It made the occasional trips there very special.

It's funny...I have come across many serious golfers here in Cincinnati who barely know of Camargo. Those who love to play, but who don't pay attention to great courses or architects, hardly know where Camargo is, or how great of a course it is. I get the impression that is perfectly okay with the membership.

[SPDB]

Lou:
I think you mean the side-by-side Alps (#7) and Biarritz (#8), sort of like Fishers Island

[Rob_Waldron]

John

Show me more, show me more!

[George Freeman]

George,
I do have quite a few more photos, but will need to upload them first.  It might take several days as I think photos without some basic commentary (e.g. hole number, length, key observations) isn't nearly as useful.

Great, much appreciated John.

[John Kirk]

Looks like you don't want to be in that right bunker.  You don't even get to see your perfect flopped bunker shot trickle past the hole and roll off the green.

[RE Blanks]

TEPaul,  I would like also echo your comments on Tom Cecil.  I couldn't be happier for him to land a job like Camargo.  It is a perfect fit for the club and Tom.  He has been at some two other great Raynors (Fishers Island and Yeamans Hall) and also Gulph Mills.  He is one of the guys that 'gets it' in my opinion. 
Out of all the golf courses I have played, I would say it is my favorite place to play a game of golf.  It has it all.  A very good mix of stratigic holes, great terrain, and a perfect setting. 
The Camargo Club will benefit from a knowledgable and passionate Head Pro like Tom. 

[John Mayhugh]

Looks like you don't want to be in that right bunker.  You don't even get to see your perfect flopped bunker shot trickle past the hole and roll off the green.

That's one of the funniest things I've read in a while.  Thanks!

[John Mayhugh]

I'll try to post a sort of photo tour beginning in the next couple of days.  I need to track down a scorecard so I get the yardages somewhat right.

Until then........
Nothing pretentious about the entrance.


Here's what the routing looks like.  Camargo is on a hilly, interesting piece of property. You'll get a much better sense of that as I post hole by hole photos, though these don't often do it justice.

[Lou_Duran]

SPDB,

Thanks for the correction.  Actually, my recollection of the par 3s was several hundred miles off on an entirely different course, Shoreacres.

John M and Jim L,

I am glad to hear that my perceptions were off.  It is a lovely club, very understated, and lots of fun for the club player (I wonder what the Tour pros would shoot on the course).

David W,

We knew of Camargo in Columbus in the 1970s because it held some qualifiers and couple of my friends made the trip.  It had a reputation of being very short and quirky, and not on the same level as some of the best Columbus areas courses.  One of the guys in our large group really liked it because he couldn't hit the ball more than 250 yards and he was a superb putter with his wooden shafted Otey Crisman.  He thought Camargo was in the same class as Columbus CC, but none of us really knew all that much about gca.

[JLahrman]

It's short, although I don't think it would have been that short in the 1970s.  It's probably about 6650 from the back tees.  And quirky?  I've never thought of Camargo as quirky.  Tour pros would tear it up.

[Richard Hetzel]

I have been fortunate enough to play Camargo on two separate occasions when I was a high school golf coach. The greens were incredible and I had a great day putting. The conditions are incredible, simply incredible!

[Lou_Duran]

Jim,

Distance, like most things, is relative, and the Scarlet course was over 7000 yards from the back tees where we normally played it in the 1970s.  The greens and, therefore, the approaches at Camargo were/are quirky in comparison to what we were used to playing.  While the greens were not at tournament speed during my single play at Camargo, nor were the pins tucked, they were still very challenging.  My friends and host related some horror stories of excellent players going along just fine only to chip and/or putt a couple of balls off the greens and pile large numbers.  Reportedly, it was/is the kind of course that you could be playing around par for 15 or 16 holes and not break 80. 

[Criss Titschinger]

John, I can neither confirm nor deny my extreme jealously.  Have fun, share pics!