Is Walter Travis the most unappreciated ODG?

[Ian Andrew]

Walter Travis deserves some extra credit for using his prominent status to influence the direction of golf and course architecture – largely fighting against the penal style of architecture. He founded and edited “American Golfer” and used that position to comment and often criticize the state of golf architecture throughout the United States. For example, his suggestions and criticisms of Garden City in a 1906 article eventually led to his major renovation of Garden City. It was his work at Garden City which brought him to prominence as a golf course architect.

Once you have played a few Walter Travis courses with original greens (later work more so that very early), you will understand when I say that he might have built the best greens of any architect. His greens wildly varied throughout the course. He employed creases, wild undulations, sharp pitch, clever bowls, false fronts, spines and ridgelines. It was how he compartmentalized his pin areas that set him completely apart from all others. Putting from one pin position to another is often an adventure.

Another hole that is common to Walter is the downhill hole to a peninsula green (set on descending slopes). He would often bench a green part way down a slope so that a bounce in approach would be prudent, but the typically aggressive attempt to fly the ball in would be met with a harsh penalty if the player missed long. Many of them are two tiered with the lower tier in the back.

One of the biggest criticisms is routing. Walter had no issue with a blind shot, and would often route a tee shot over a hill to set up the next shot into a natural green site. And when I say often, there are examples where he does this ten times in 18 holes. When you look at these properties, sometimes the holes make sense, but other choices seem completely unnecessary. Blindness for the sake of blindness has never been seen as virtue in golf design.

He has my favourite bunker quote: "The primary idea of a hazard is to punish, to the extent of one stroke, a poorly played shot, and to make the recovery exceedingly difficult, and even by the virtue of the following shot being extraordinarily good. If this end is not attained, the existing hazard fails to fill it's functions."

(I work on quite a few of his courses)

[Sven Nilsen]

The Travis Society has no record of Travis involvement at East Lake,  If there is legitimate documentation of his involvement there, I would like to see it.

Ed:

From the Nov. 1911 American Golfer:

[Michael J. Moss]

 "...you will understand when I say that he (Travis) might have built the best greens of any architect."

Ian, an outrageous statement, but one I think I can agree with!

For your viewing pleasure, here are a few photos of some of the wonderful putting surfaces at Cape Arundel in Kennebunkport, ME. It's on all of 86 acres, a pinch under 6,000 yards from the back tees at a par of 69. It's just one of the most fun, lovely little courses you can find and due to a great extent because of the brilliance of their greens.

The first two images are an attempt to capture two side by side greens. There are a few of these on the course because of the tightness of the property. I think their short proximity to each other is so cool and achieve a stunning complimentary look.

[MCirba]

Michael,

I played Cape Arundel last summer and agree with your assessment.   What a pure pleasure that place is and you did a nice job capturing the green contours on your photos, which can be a challenge.

Sven,

That's interesting about Travis and East Lake.   I'd always thought the changes around 1912 were more conceived by George Adair working from HH Barker's suggestions, primarily.   Given the close relationship between Travis and Barker I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was some collaboration, however.     I'd also heard CBM had been consulted re: these changes, as well, but don't recall the source.

[Sven Nilsen]

Mike:


There were a lot of cooks in that kitchen.


Adair consulted a number of experts, including Bendelow, Barker, Findlay, Travis, Chick Evans, Alex Smith, Jimmy and Stewart Maiden, Fred McLeod, Vardon, Ray and Ross (who did his own bunkering system for the course in 1913).


I've heard the CBM rumors, but haven't seen anything to confirm them.


Sven

[MCirba]

Sven,

Thanks for the additional info.   It seems to me that Adair was very motivated to make East Lake the best course in the south and it likely was for some period.

[Ed Homsey]

Sven--As always, you came through with some very interesting information about Travis and East Lake.  I find it hard to believe that we missed that, given that it was in The American Golfer.  I believe that documentation is sufficient to add East Lake to the lists of Travis golf course projects; perhaps under consultation, though it appears to be more than that. 


Ian--thank you for that wonderful analysis of Travis's architecture.  Given your work on so many Travis courses--(what is it, 8 Travis courses? Counting one we might like to forget.)--I appreciate and respect your knowledge of Travis.  Though I never fail to enjoy his routing of the back nine at Stafford, I have to admit that there is a plethora of blind shots on many of his course. 


Cape Arundel:  Thank you, Michael for those photos that did a great job of capturing the beauty of Cape Arundel's greens.  That course stands at the top of my Travis course list in terms of the great joy I experience each time I'm privileged to walk its grounds.

[Joe Bausch]

Is WT the most unappreciated ODG as Dan asked?  I don't know, as I've not seen so many other ODG's work!

But with my limited exposure to Travis, he was outstanding.  The two places coming to mind are CC of Scranton (Clarks Summit, PA) and Hollywood (Deal, NJ).  Both are so much fun.

Photographic support for my opinions (grin):

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Scranton/

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Hollywood/

[Ed Homsey]

I would argue that Travis was "enamoured" not only with British courses but also British players.  It was his opinion that the superiority of the British courses resulted in superior players, e.g. from his 1901 article, "Impressions of British Golf", there is this statement, referring to the links in England and Scotland, "There you have golf--Golf in its best and highest form.  Added to this, I have had the pleasure of seeing some of the very finest players in the world play on their native heath."  His opinion about some British players was changed by his perceived slights during the week of the 1904 British Am. 

[Rob Marshall]

Back to Travis for a moment...His work at Cherry Hill and Lookout Point in Ontario, Stafford and Orchard Park near Buffalo and his other non-NYC area courses rarely stray beyond 6600 yards, so what Doak says is confirmed.  His greens at Stafford, Lookout, Cherry Hill and others (Orchard Park is a notable exception) are beguiling, heaving, lurching, and ennervating.  Travis' courses place a premium on the game from 150 yards and in...Thinking about the Travis courses I know, the premium on driving, indeed, the inspiration for driving, is not present.  The drive is seen almost as a prelude to what he considered the true part of the (w)hole.  As such, much as I love these courses, they are somewhat incomplete when compared with courses that place a premium on all facets of the game.  That's why Travis is not discussed as much.  Have at it.

His green on the 11th at Stafford is the worst green I have ever played. Extremely good golf course but that green is a joke at any speed.

[Joe Bausch]

Back to Travis for a moment...His work at Cherry Hill and Lookout Point in Ontario, Stafford and Orchard Park near Buffalo and his other non-NYC area courses rarely stray beyond 6600 yards, so what Doak says is confirmed.  His greens at Stafford, Lookout, Cherry Hill and others (Orchard Park is a notable exception) are beguiling, heaving, lurching, and ennervating.  Travis' courses place a premium on the game from 150 yards and in...Thinking about the Travis courses I know, the premium on driving, indeed, the inspiration for driving, is not present.  The drive is seen almost as a prelude to what he considered the true part of the (w)hole.  As such, much as I love these courses, they are somewhat incomplete when compared with courses that place a premium on all facets of the game.  That's why Travis is not discussed as much.  Have at it.

His green on the 11th at Stafford is the worst green I have ever played. Extremely good golf course but that green is a joke at any speed.

I need pictures of this green!


Are you master of hyperbole Greg?!

[JMEvensky]

I need pictures of this green!

I can't believe there's a golf course you don't have a picture of.


Hope all is well Joe.

[Blake Conant]

Back to Travis for a moment...His work at Cherry Hill and Lookout Point in Ontario, Stafford and Orchard Park near Buffalo and his other non-NYC area courses rarely stray beyond 6600 yards, so what Doak says is confirmed.  His greens at Stafford, Lookout, Cherry Hill and others (Orchard Park is a notable exception) are beguiling, heaving, lurching, and ennervating.  Travis' courses place a premium on the game from 150 yards and in...Thinking about the Travis courses I know, the premium on driving, indeed, the inspiration for driving, is not present.  The drive is seen almost as a prelude to what he considered the true part of the (w)hole.  As such, much as I love these courses, they are somewhat incomplete when compared with courses that place a premium on all facets of the game.  That's why Travis is not discussed as much.  Have at it.

His green on the 11th at Stafford is the worst green I have ever played. Extremely good golf course but that green is a joke at any speed.

I need pictures of this green!


Are you master of hyperbole Greg?!

it's one of Travis' wackier greens, which is saying something.  This pic from Travis Society page (a Brian Schneider photo I believe), taken from back left of the green:

[Joe Hancock]

Blake,


That picture is supposed to show off a cool, funky green, but man is it difficult to see anything but a bunch of Christmas trees pruned by a 4 foot high man.....

[Blake Conant]

No doubt, in fact, Ed would be the first one to tell you Stafford has tree issues.  It's a cool ass green, though.  Travis did a lot of quadrant greens, but this one is shaped like a parallelogram with some severe transitions and gnarly bisecting swales.  Really cool pins on the corners.

[Tim Rooney]

Tom,I played Ekwanok a few years ago and was astonished at the additional back Tee land to provide 20+yds on most, not all 18 holes.Appeared to be a wonderful layout with somewhat enormous greens,only lacking today's length?

[Rob Marshall]

Back to Travis for a moment...His work at Cherry Hill and Lookout Point in Ontario, Stafford and Orchard Park near Buffalo and his other non-NYC area courses rarely stray beyond 6600 yards, so what Doak says is confirmed.  His greens at Stafford, Lookout, Cherry Hill and others (Orchard Park is a notable exception) are beguiling, heaving, lurching, and ennervating.  Travis' courses place a premium on the game from 150 yards and in...Thinking about the Travis courses I know, the premium on driving, indeed, the inspiration for driving, is not present.  The drive is seen almost as a prelude to what he considered the true part of the (w)hole.  As such, much as I love these courses, they are somewhat incomplete when compared with courses that place a premium on all facets of the game.  That's why Travis is not discussed as much.  Have at it.

His green on the 11th at Stafford is the worst green I have ever played. Extremely good golf course but that green is a joke at any speed.

I need pictures of this green!


Are you master of hyperbole Greg?!

it's one of Travis' wackier greens, which is saying something.  This pic from Travis Society page (a Brian Schneider photo I believe), taken from back left of the green:

The picture makes the green look  bigger and the undulations not as severe as they are.

[Jud_T]

Langford is the most unappreciated ODG.  End of thread...

[Niall C]

Ed


Do you not think that the issue was a bit more than "perceived slights" ?


Niall

[John Blain]

Tom,I played Ekwanok a few years ago and was astonished at the additional back Tee land to provide 20+yds on most, not all 18 holes.Appeared to be a wonderful layout with somewhat enormous greens,only lacking today's length?

It's been a few years since I have played Ekwanok but it does seem like there was quite a bit of room to go back on most of those holes. But given the average age of the membership being 70+ years old it 's a bit of a moot point. I think that course is plenty challenging for who plays there on a regular basis.
I always thought Ekwanok was a nice membership course in a great setting. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just my opinion.
John

[Joe Hancock]

Langford is the most unappreciated ODG.  End of thread...

Nope. The correct answer is Moreau. 

[Ed Homsey]

Niall--I believe that Travis had good reasons for perceiving those "slights" during the 1904 British Am.  I also believe that those situations did not significantly alter his great respect for golfers and golf courses in the UK.  That said, I would agree that he was a man who somehow got caught up in situations that affected his personal relationships, e.g. Emmet and Macdonald.


Interesting discussion about the 11th green at Stafford CC.  Re the comment concerning the spruce trees that dominant the photos.  Those trees are being removed.  I appreciate Blake's comment about the green.  Having played that green for over 42 years, I will defend it to the bitter end.  It is a beautiful green, offering many interesting and challenging pin positions and many predictable challenges from wherever your approach shot ends up. 


I believe that Travis was just starting to hit his stride in the early '20s, but that his career was cut short by his poor health.  Count me as one who believe he is one (if not the) most unappreciated ODG's.

[Mike_Trenham]

Langford is the most unappreciated ODG.  End of thread...

Nope. The correct answer is Moreau. 

No it's Eddie Hackett (routing) tied with Walter Travis (greens).

[Jim_Kennedy]

Interesting discussion about the 11th green at Stafford CC.  Re the comment concerning the spruce trees that dominant the photos.  Those trees are being removed.  I appreciate Blake's comment about the green.  Having played that green for over 42 years, I will defend it to the bitter end.  It is a beautiful green, offering many interesting and challenging pin positions and many predictable challenges from wherever your approach shot ends up. 

Ed,
The 11th at Stafford looks very similar to par three 17th on Stamford GC. SGC's version tests a player's putting ability, and it really comes to life when a player has to fashion a recovery shot from the surrounding area, which is frequently, as the hole is 242 yards long.   

[Ronald Montesano]

+1 on support for the 11th green at Stafford. Fortunately, no Xmas trees on the green. It's a longish par four, with the green sitting (if I recall correctly) a foot or two below the fairway. The hole is fantastic for a number of reasons. in the first place, you need to find the fairway or light rough with your drive, or you might not carry the diagonally-cutting Black Creek with your second. You can lay up, leaving wedge into the green.


A single bunker protects the left side of the green. Little consolation, as it falls off on the sides (again, Ed, correct me if I'm wrong. I've play it four times, only once in the past 15 years.) Your best miss, I believe, is short, but that is not easy to achieve, with the aforementioned creek jutting from short right to long left. So, driver, mid-long iron in, then comes the chipping and putting. I like it to the strategic putting we see at Augusta National~you're not trying to make the putt, simply striving to put it in the best position to make the second one.


11 at Stafford, 18 at Cherry Hill and the wafer-thin, third green at Lookout Point are my three favs. Note: have not seen Cape Arundel nor Hollywood. Have seen S, CH, LP, Orchard Park, Onondaga and Yahnundasis.