[Tom Huckaby]

 A very provocative point was made by Dave Schmidt, in his contemplations of quitting the game:

I've said precisely that before.  If golf risks losing a lifelong hardcore borderline junkie like me to all but the occasional round (if that), I have to wonder how its long-term outlook could possibly be rosy.

So is golf really dying? If so, why?

NOTE: as opposed others who start threads which sometimes go multicolored, I have no answers myself. I am genuinely curious.  Golf is in no danger of losing me. But what say the rest of you?   

[Jim Franklin]

I'm in. My kids want to play which should keep me playing for many years ahead. I named my son GOLF for crying out loud.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim - well I knew that!

But the question is not is anyone leaving golf..but rather is Dave's contention that golf is dying correct?  And if so, why?

[George Pazin]

Can't blame golf if Dave can't see the beauty.

I suspect he sees it but is just in a brief period of self doubt that will pass shortly.

Of course, that has nothing to do with the question of golf dying. I don't think it's dying, but I think some might want to kill it. And they might succeed.

[Tom Huckaby]

Of course, that has nothing to do with the question of golf dying. I don't think it's dying, but I think some might want to kill it. And they might succeed.

So who would want to kill it, and how could they possibly succeed?

BTW agreed re Schmidt.

[Mike_Cirba]

Golden Goose.

I bought a single, two year old, hardly top of the line driver on-sale for $200+ this past week.

Courses have been built that aren't sustainable under any price point below $100+ as the norm.

The baby boom generation is starting to die off and the 1.6 kids per middle class caucasian household following in their wake are the X Generation still into skateboards and skiboards.

Yes, a serious retrenchment is very, very likely, which is very unfortunate for those of us who wish to see it grow.

[Pete_Pittock]

Huck,
Was Schmidt in his camouflaged begging for more strokes stance when he posted that?

Golf will only die when there are no more pipers. Whether or not that (no more pipers) is a good thing is open to debate.

[Scott Warren]

Of course, that has nothing to do with the question of golf dying. I don't think it's dying, but I think some might want to kill it. And they might succeed.

So who would want to kill it, and how could they possibly succeed?

By building 7500 yard courses and charging too much for access to munis. I'd imagine the people capable of killing golf aren't going to do so with malice. But misguided good intentions are just as dangerous. Let's just hope they don't succeed.

[Greg Chambers]

Here's my analogy:

Golf is like a guy, who used to be fit and trim and in great health, who got real fat real quickly.  Now, that guy, if he stays real fat will face certain death.  But, if he starts taking care of himself again, eats the right foods, exercises, etc, he can again become healthy, and live a long and prosperous life.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Just when you think its dead it comes back.  I was out at two golf courses last week and they were packed.  Golf follows the general economic trend and some retrenchment is natural.

I do believe that golf needs a stimulus plan and fault certain bodies for not being procactive in building and developing the game other than the First Tee.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike:  retrenchment is one thing - hell I have no problem with that at all - and I see that as inevitable, for all the reasons you state, as well as many others which could be posited.  DEATH is another.    I can't see golf going away completely.

But that is likely what Dave means by long-term outlook not being rosy.

I just didn't see it as that type of question..... I saw it as why would hard-core guys quit?  What about it makes them quit?  Only when they do quit does the sport die.

So Peter - that is the same type of thing I asked Dave himself.  But good question as to whether the death of the sport would be a good thing. It would be a personal tragedy for me as I see it now... but in terms of what's best for the world? Wow I need Goodale for that.

[PCCraig]

Is golf dying because Shivas wants to quit golf? No.

Dead means completely gone. Sure it is hurting, but in no means is it dying.

[Jim Franklin]

With all of the grief Nortern Trust received for holding their tournament you can see why the people of DC would not mind if golf died. There were specific items in all of the pork added to the TARP money that specifically said money cannot go towards golf related business. Ridiculous. The golf business employs over 3.5 million people and DC wants to kill it. Brillant.

[Tom Huckaby]

Golf won't die.  It just might be way less popular.   There are still tennis courts at parks.  They just don't get used as much.

So Dave in your view is this a bad thing?

I'd love for golf to be way less popular... would make it easier to get tee times.....

[PThomas]

agree it is usually too expensive...but can one build a decent quality course in an area like Chicago these days , charge only $35 or so to play, and make a profit?

if not, whats the solution..or isn't there

[Kirk Gill]

There's no earthly way of knowing which direction we are going, there's no knowing where we're rowing or which way the river's flowing. Is it raining? Is it snowing? Is a hurricane a-blowing? Not a speck of light is showing so the danger must be growing.....Are the fires of hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Yes, the danger must be growing 'cause the rowers keep on rowing, and they're certainly not showing any signs that they are slowing............

and so on.

Is golf dying? Well, to me that means will golf die, and are we close to that eventuality, and I just don't see it. It may diminish, and become a part of fewer peoples' lives, but I feel as if it will persist, even if a good part of the "Modern World" passes it by. Its roots are deep, if shallower some places more than others. How diminished does it have to be for you to call it deceased? Will golf ever be surmounted by, say, curling? Will it ever be smaller than croquet? Me thinkest not.

[George Pazin]

So who would want to kill it, and how could they possibly succeed?

I do not wish to divert this thread into a political thread.

 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike,

Skateboards and ski boards? How about XBox and Wii? Kids outside playing are a rarity.

Golf is losing ground for many reasons- time, cost and difficulty among them.

[JMEvensky]

I don't think golf is dying.

What may be dying is everything which came to define golf for too many non-golfers.

Growing up,golf was a sport you played when you weren't playing baseball,tennis,basketball,and/or everything else.It was something you tried to get good at.But,even when you sucked,it was fun.You were with friends "competing" at something else.You never worried about how good or bad the golf course was-just as you never worried if the baseball diamond has rocks on the infield.Maybe it was blissful ignorance,but all that really mattered was the PLAYING.

Now,it seems like everything else is more important than just playing.Is my course ranked in the top 100,is there a weed in my fairway,are my club's towels scented,etc.

Somehow,the game of golf got hijacked by people who don't understand what's really important.Maybe this economic situation will weed out the poseurs and leave the game for those who have a passion for playing it.

[Kalen Braley]

I think it depends as it relates to whether a scale back is good.

Here in Utah where its rarely tough to get a tee time and I can play almost anytime I want, a serious cutback in players could mean course closures.  Then again I doubt that because green fees are so cheap.

But in a place like Cali, specifically the bay area, golf could face losing golfers and still be OK...perhaps even improved from the perspective of more available tee times as Huck suggested.

As always, the places most vulnerable to death are high end publics and lower end privates.  But complete golf for death is highly doubtful....

[Tom Huckaby]

So who would want to kill it, and how could they possibly succeed?

I do not wish to divert this thread into a political thread.

 

Aha. Gotcha.  Wise.

Yes, the political part of this was surely not my intent in asking. If that is the answer, however.... well I will bow out and those who want to slug that out yet again may do so.  My only personal interest is if that is the answer....

[Kirk Gill]

The baby boom generation is starting to die off and the 1.6 kids per middle class caucasian household following in their wake are the X Generation still into skateboards and skiboards.

How lame is it to see 30+ year olds try to ride skateboards? Youths grow up. I started playing golf in elementary school, and then went through a long period characterized by music, partying, long hair, guitar-playing, partying, the occasional appearance in a class or three, etc., etc.

I found golf still waiting for me on the other side. I hope my kids can say the same. And everyone who points at lazy kids who just sit inside and play video games are missing all those kids who ARE outside, biking and boarding. There are a lot of them, too.

Some aspects of golf appear broken, especially here in the us. Decades of emphasis on MBA and profit-taking and ignoring things like educating golfers as to etiquette and fast play have left us all feeling a bit used, abused, and hacked off. To me, though, the game's appeal still exists, still attracts. How big golf will be is the question, isn't it?

[Tom Huckaby]

How big golf will be is the question, isn't it?

But Kirk, why does that matter?

I really could care less if golf is popular, so long as I can play... and have friends to play with.

So my question is more will my venues disappear and friends as well?

I seem to be losing one in Schmidt, and that is kinda scary.  But again I prefer to think he's going through a phase.  Or I hope so.

TH

[Brian_Sleeman]

How much (if any) of this downward trend in the last few years (and into the future) may be due to less and less people joining clubs, whether they're private, semi-private, or whatever?  Golf isn't as appealing for many when you've got to go to your wallet each and every time, especially when you think of the opportunity cost of every round when you plunk down your credit card for another greens fee.

If you join the gym, you use the gym more than you would if you had instead bought a day pass every time.  My take is that the same applies to golf - once that membership or season pass is paid, you'll make the most of it.

The communal aspect of a club membership/pass is also conducive to getting the rest of the family involved, playing for social reasons, and overall to building and sustaining a base of players for years to come. 

What do you think?

[Jeff_Brauer]

In the big picture I think its well positioned to be stronger than ever.  If it was considered pleasureable excersize and a great chance to get outdoors back in the day before cars and carts, it has to be a great component of anyone's (now greatly reduced and low impact) excersise program in these days of reduced fitness and even greater need to spend some times outdoors.

Golf may need some tweaks to its business and marketing model to accomodate and attract those people since right now, its viewed as less than excersise by many.  Something along the lines of "Golf - just right for the fat ass kid!)

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