[Michael Whitaker]

Sean - A new offering...

Caledonia & Bulls Bay

Enjoy!

[Andrew Mitchell]

Maybes

Ocean Course and Yeamans Hall (aren't these more than an hour apart?)
Beau Desert and Notts (not sure if these are within an hour)
Ganton and Alwoodley (are they within an hour?)


I am still looking for OZ courses.  Also, does Kawana match up with anything else close in Japan?


Ciao

Sean
Google maps has Beau Desert to Notts at 50 miles and estimates a journey time of 1 hour 9 mins
Alwoodley to Ganton is 57 miles, estimated journey time 1 hour 20 mins.

I usually find I can do journeys in less than the estimated time    Alternatives would be to pair Ganton with Fulford and Alwoodley with Moortown.

[Sean_A]

Maybes

Ocean Course and Yeamans Hall (aren't these more than an hour apart?)
Beau Desert and Notts (not sure if these are within an hour)
Ganton and Alwoodley (are they within an hour?)


I am still looking for OZ courses.  Also, does Kawana match up with anything else close in Japan?


Ciao

Sean
Google maps has Beau Desert to Notts at 50 miles and estimates a journey time of 1 hour 9 mins
Alwoodley to Ganton is 57 miles, estimated journey time 1 hour 20 mins.

I usually find I can do journeys in less than the estimated time    Alternatives would be to pair Ganton with Fulford and Alwoodley with Moortown.

Andrew

Thats a bit harsh - I really thought BD and Notts would have been within an hour. 

Since Ben says anybody can play Kingston Heath I will certainly add it with Royal Melbourne.

Woking and Addington (solid pair)
Dornoch and Brora (solid pair)
Enniscrone and Carne (solid pair)
North Berwick and Dunbar (solid pair)
CPC and Pebble (solid pair)
Sandwich and Princes (solid pair)
Pacific Dunes and Old Mac (I will take a punt on unfinished course because it looks compelling)
Riviera and Rustic (solid pair)
Sand Hills and Wildhorse (solid pair)
Augusta and Longshadow (solid pair)
MPCC (which course?) and Pasa (solid pair)
Morfontaine and St Germain (solid pair)
Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath (solid pair)
Pennard and Southerndown (could be replaced)
Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest (could be replaced)
Cabo del Sol and Dunes at Diamonte Cabo San Lucas (could be replaced)
Crystal Downs and Arcadia (could be replaced)
TOC and Elie (could be replaced)

Maybes
Ocean Course and Yeamans Hall (aren't these more than an hour apart?)

I am still not happy about Arcadia.  How far is Kingsley from Crystal Downs and can anybody play Kingsley?

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

Sean

How about these suggestions -

Luffenham Heath (Braid) and Northants County (Colt)
Beau Desert and Little Aston
St Enodoc and Trevose
Moortown and Alwoodley
Royal Aberdeen and Murcar (or even Cruden Bay!)
Royal Troon and Prestwick
Woodhall Spa and Seacroft (originally designed by Wille Fernie which I think is underrated)
Royal Porthcawl and Pyle + Kenfig
Royal St Davids and Conwy
Portmarnock and Island
Portrush (Dunluce) and Portstewart (Strand)

Pennard and Ashburnham would be a better bet as Southerndown is near Cardiff rather than Swansea/Llanelli

Cheers

Ben

[Sean_A]

Sean

How about these suggestions -

Luffenham Heath (Braid) and Northants County (Colt)
Beau Desert and Little Aston
St Enodoc and Trevose
Moortown and Alwoodley
Royal Aberdeen and Murcar (or even Cruden Bay!)
Royal Troon and Prestwick
Woodhall Spa and Seacroft (originally designed by Wille Fernie which I think is underrated)
Royal Porthcawl and Pyle + Kenfig
Royal St Davids and Conwy
Portmarnock and Island
Portrush (Dunluce) and Portstewart (Strand)

Pennard and Ashburnham would be a better bet as Southerndown is near Cardiff rather than Swansea/Llanelli

Cheers

Ben

None of those are raising any hairs on the neck except P'rush and P'stewart, but I am not totally convinced.  What do you suggest I pull out to make space?

I would much rather play S'down with Pennard than Ashburnham.  In fact, I would rather add Tenby, but I think its more than an a hour from Pennard. 

Ciao

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean - again not to be a pain, but I remain unclear on the standards here, and I do want to contribute.

If Riviera/Rustic is a solid pair, then to me there is zero doubt that MPCC Shore + Spyglass has to be also.  Shore is arguably as good as Riviera, and to me Spyglass is clearly superior to Rustic Canyon.

That also frees up MPCC Dunes + Pasatiempo as a very solid pair.

The inclusions of Rustic Canyon and Wild Horse would seem to open up quite a few more other US possibilities also... each are off the charts on "bang for the buck" but in terms of raw greatness, well...yes they are great but surely not clearly better than many others we could give.

For example, there simply must be a public course in the Denver area that meets this standard, close enough such that it could pair with Colorado GC (which is fantastic and surely meets a list that includes Cabo del Sol)....

TH

[Deucie Bies]

I'm not sure about the distance between these courses, but what about Milwaukee CC and Lawsonia or Milwaukee CC and Whistling Straits?

[Deucie Bies]

And I can't believe you haven't included any of the private courses on Long Island with Bethpage Black.

[jeffwarne]

Augusta and Longshadow(or anywhere else) is silly as who would leave Augusta in time to play anywhere else. (most make a day of it by either playing the par 3 or more and hopefully staying over in a cabin)

and Longshadow is more than an hour away-easily

Having played Tenby and Pennard on the same day and Pennard and Ashburnham on the same day-I'd take Tenby/Pennard any day.
But.... Tenby is slightly more than an hour

[Sean_A]

Well Jeff, it looks like Augusta/Longshadow is out.

Huck, there has to be compromise in all things in life.  If I have both courses at MPCC to include Spyglass I have to get rid of something else.  Truthfully, if it comes to that I would rather take Portrush/Portstewart.  This isn't strictly about quality - I thought this was made clear.  It is much more about a balanced view of courses I would like to see again/see for the 1st time/recommend.  With all the great courses in the world I don't place Spyglass as anywhere near a priority.  That doesn't mean it isn't good - it just means I am more interested in say Sand Hills/Wildhorse.  I think I am coming up with a decent group of courses.  True, I am failing on the truly modern front, but that may be on purpose!

Deucie - I couldn't get a definitive answer on which courses were within an hour of Bethpage.  I would like to see NGLA or Shinny.  I am not so hot on Bethpage, but it would be interesting to see so long as I got one of the other two. 

Woking and Addington (solid pair)
Dornoch and Brora (solid pair)
Enniscrone and Carne (solid pair)
North Berwick and Dunbar (solid pair)
CPC and Pebble (solid pair)
Sandwich and Princes (solid pair)
Pacific Dunes and Old Mac (I will take a punt on unfinished course because it looks compelling)
Sand Hills and Wildhorse (solid pair)
MPCC (which course?) and Pasa (solid pair)
Morfontaine and St Germain (solid pair)
Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath (solid pair)
Pennard and Southerndown (could be replaced)
Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest (could be replaced)
Cabo del Sol and Dunes at Diamonte Cabo San Lucas (could be replaced)
Crystal Downs and Arcadia (could be replaced)
TOC and Elie (could be replaced)
Riviera and Rustic (on Huck's reco, could be replaced)

Maybes
Portrush and Portstewart
Lahinch and Ballybunion

Down to 17 pairs.  I still wouldn't mind finding a mate for Kawana.  I always thought this course looked fantastic.

Ciao

   

[Carl Nichols]

Sean:

Winged Foot (assuming no traffic) and Garden City are both within an hour of Bethpage.  If memory serves, NGLA, Shinnecock and Sebonack are right at the 60 mile mark from Bethpage.
 
I take it that neither Chicago Golf Club nor Shoreacres interests you?

Carl

[Deucie Bies]

Sean,

It looks like Bethpage and Shinnecock are about 65 miles (1 hour 20 minutes) from each other.  NGLA is the same.  How far is Ballybunion from Lahinch?  I think that should be a definite pair if they are close enough.

Deucie

[jeffwarne]

Sean,

It looks like Bethpage and Shinnecock are about 65 miles (1 hour 20 minutes) from each other.  NGLA is the same.  How far is Ballybunion from Lahinch?  I think that should be a definite pair if they are close enough.

Deucie

57 miles apart-made the drive many times
just under an hour as Shinny is right off highway as is Bethpage

[Sean_A]

Sean,

It looks like Bethpage and Shinnecock are about 65 miles (1 hour 20 minutes) from each other.  NGLA is the same.  How far is Ballybunion from Lahinch?  I think that should be a definite pair if they are close enough.

Deucie

57 miles apart-made the drive many times
just under an hour as Shinny is right off highway as is Bethpage

Jeff

Cheers.  I will add Bethpage and Shinny if you say its less than an hour.  I know that with your experience of forced marches that you would know these things!

Carl

Chicago interests me, but I can't think of a public course near there which really perks the interest.  I grew up in Detroit and never felt the need to make a Chicago road trip for golf - though I did it many, many, many times for the blues!

When I think about it, Ballybunion and Lahinch really can't be counted on to be within an hour.  Its more than an hour around the Shannon and taking the ferry requires some down time. 

Update

Woking and Addington (solid pair)
Dornoch and Brora (solid pair)
Enniscrone and Carne (solid pair)
North Berwick and Dunbar (solid pair)
CPC and Pebble (solid pair)
Sandwich and Princes (solid pair)
Pacific Dunes and Old Mac (I will take a punt on unfinished course because it looks compelling)
Sand Hills and Wildhorse (solid pair)
MPCC (which course?) and Pasa (solid pair)
Morfontaine and St Germain (solid pair)
Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath (solid pair)
Shinny and Bethpage (solid pair)
Pennard and Southerndown (could be replaced)
Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest (could be replaced)
Crystal Downs and Arcadia (could be replaced)
TOC and Elie (could be replaced)
Riviera and Rustic (on Huck's reco, could be replaced)

Maybes
Portrush and Portstewart

Am I missing anything?  I really liked pix I saw of Palmetto and Camden.  Are they close to each other? 

Hang on, the penny just dropped with Hick's comment.  I just realized I was mixing up Cabo del Sol with Casa de Campo!!! I meant to list Teeth of the Dog.  Is there another course which pairs up with this one? Otherwise, I am back down to 17.

Ciao


 

[Alister Matheson]

In my book heres a few solid pairs

Cruden Bay and Fraserburgh

Nairn  and Lossiemouth

Southerness and Silloth on Sollway  lang drive !

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

You have lots of solid pairs.

You just also have zero consistency in your standards and methodology, outside of "I'll include whatever the hell I feel like including."  That's fine.. it just makes it difficult to give recommendations.

It seems to me that if one course is great enough, you'll lower the standard a little for the pair, to include the first course, no?  (ie inclusions of Rustic and Wild Horse).  And you also don't want too many in proximity (ie can't include both MPCC courses even though there are plenty of worthwhile nearby pairs)? 

Don't kid yourself re Spyglass Hill... it is as great or better than MANY courses included in your "solid pairs"....

But I get it better now... you have to limit this to 18 pairs... so yes, including both MPCC courses does seem like overkill.I am just not certain that including either with Pasatiempo is necessarily better than the other with Spyglass... but what the heck, one must make tough choices.

Oh well, what the hell.  If it is like this, then make the MPCC course the Dunes.  I think it's a tiny bit better than Shore.   Pair that with Pasatiempo.

Based on all of this... especially if the 2nd course standard need not be bullet-proof for sure great... I think you can include Riviera + Rustic...in the same way you include Sand Hills + Wild Horse.  There's no good replacement for Rustic within an hour of Riviera, that's for sure... and Rustic is as good (if not better) than Wild Horse.
TH

[jeffwarne]

Sean,

It looks like Bethpage and Shinnecock are about 65 miles (1 hour 20 minutes) from each other.  NGLA is the same.  How far is Ballybunion from Lahinch?  I think that should be a definite pair if they are close enough.

Deucie

57 miles apart-made the drive many times
just under an hour as Shinny is right off highway as is Bethpage

Jeff

Cheers.  I will add Bethpage and Shinny if you say its less than an hour.  I know that with your experience of forced marches that you would know these things!

Carl

Chicago interests me, but I can't think of a public course near there which really perks the interest.  I grew up in Detroit and never felt the need to make a Chicago road trip for golf - though I did it many, many, many times for the blues!

When I think about it, Ballybunion and Lahinch really can't be counted on to be within an hour.  Its more than an hour around the Shannon and taking the ferry requires some down time. 

Update

Woking and Addington (solid pair)
Dornoch and Brora (solid pair)
Enniscrone and Carne (solid pair)
North Berwick and Dunbar (solid pair)
CPC and Pebble (solid pair)
Sandwich and Princes (solid pair)
Pacific Dunes and Old Mac (I will take a punt on unfinished course because it looks compelling)
Sand Hills and Wildhorse (solid pair)
MPCC (which course?) and Pasa (solid pair)
Morfontaine and St Germain (solid pair)
Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath (solid pair)
Shinny and Bethpage (solid pair)
Pennard and Southerndown (could be replaced)
Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest (could be replaced)
Crystal Downs and Arcadia (could be replaced)
TOC and Elie (could be replaced)
Riviera and Rustic (on Huck's reco, could be replaced)

Maybes
Portrush and Portstewart

Am I missing anything?  I really liked pix I saw of Palmetto and Camden.  Are they close to each other? 

Hang on, the penny just dropped with Hick's comment.  I just realized I was mixing up Cabo del Sol with Casa de Campo!!! I meant to list Teeth of the Dog.  Is there another course which pairs up with this one? Otherwise, I am back down to 17.

Ciao


 

Sean,
a better pair is Palmetto and Aiken Golf Club.
Play Palmetto in the am.
eat lunch at the public AGC (nice pub) then play.
less than a mile apart,AGC is accessible to the average Joe, and it's an easy walk

I'd still put Portrush Valley instead of Portstuart as it's a really cool course and makes a comfortable day. (I'm a big fan of a big course/smaller course day)
and I'd pair Portstuart with Castlerock

[Tom Huckaby]

Well... if he's not gonna do MPCC Shore + Spyglass, he sure as hell can't do two pairs using each Portrush course (as great as they both are). Not with the 18 course limit here.

So thinking of one course only at Portrush... I'd go for Portstewart as the pair over Valley.. if only to allow for two different clubs.

That is a tough call though.

BTW Sean, there is another course at Casa de Campo called "Dye Fore" sp? which looks cool to me... and since you have Pacific Dunes and OLd Mac, you can't be against  two courses at same club, or resort.  So this might work... just need someone more familiar with each course to comment - I've never been there.

[Sean_A]

Jeff

Only because I shall get a good look at the Valley Course (and Paul T's pix looked stunning) I will add it with the Dunluce and slap it on the list.   To be honest I am very tempted by Palmetto and Aiken!

Huck

I don't have a problem with two courses from one club.  My problem is with Spyglass.  It just doesn't interest me as much Wildhorse or Rustic.  Is that so bad?  If I listened to all the experts I would never have grown to love some of my favourite courses on the planet.  I don't know if Wildhorse would fit into that category, but getting to play Sand Hills is a big boon.  If I could find a good replacement I would change out Riviera and Rustic.  I don't think are tastes in courses always jive. 

I also see that I forgot a serious doozy - Prestwick and Western Gailes.  There goes Riviera and Rustic.

Update

Woking and Addington (solid pair, I could play either of these 100 more times)
Dornoch and Brora (solid pair - see above)
Enniscrone and Carne (not quite as solid as above, but solid)
North Berwick and Dunbar (Dunbar is the obvious weaker link here, but Muirfield would seriously wear on me and I have to have NB in the shakeup)
CPC and Pebble (can't go without CPC because I haven't seen it and Pebble is the obvious mate)
Prestwick and Western Gailes (solid pair - I haven't seen WG yet)
Sandwich and Princes (Princes is a bit of a weak link, but I can't take too much of the beat back at Deal)
Pacific Dunes and Old Mac (I will take a punt on unfinished course because it looks compelling)
Sand Hills and Wildhorse (Gotta have Sand Hills and folks say WH is wonderful)
MPCC Dunes and Pasa (not seen either)
Morfontaine and St Germain (not seen either - its a bit of a punt if you can call a trip to France this!)
Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath (An Oz trip would be a dream come true)
Shinny and Bethpage (Not too fussed about BB, but Shinny certainly gets the blood pumping)
Portrush Dunluce and Valley (I am hoping the Valley is one of the courses that rings my bells)
Pennard and Southerndown (I love Pennard, but S'down is a weak link - could be replaced)
Pulborough and Royal Ashdown Forest (I just don't know about RA, but WS is lovely - could be replaced)
Crystal Downs and Arcadia (not bothered about Arcadia, but with Highpointe down what else is there?-could be replaced)
TOC and Elie (not seen Elie in a long time - solid pair)


Ciao

[Tim Gavrich]

How about:

- Newport CC (needs no introduction, if you ask me) & Newport National (yeah, I know it's Arthur Hills, but it's been heralded here a little bit)?
- Shelter Harbor (a course I would put in my top five by Michael Hurdzan/Dana Fry, who receive very little mention on GCA that I have noticed) & Triggs Memorial (a quintessential municipal course, relatively little-changed Donald Ross course)
- Yale GC (again, needs no introduction) & Shennecossett (great old Donald Ross gem; quintessentially municipal)
- Greenbrier (Old White) and Homestead (Cascades)--both public-accessible; does this disqualify them?

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck

I don't have a problem with two courses from one club.  My problem is with Spyglass.  It just doesn't interest me as much Wildhorse or Rustic.  Is that so bad?  If I listened to all the experts I would never have grown to love some of my favourite courses on the planet.  I don't know if Wildhorse would fit into that category, but getting to play Sand Hills is a big boon.  If I could find a good replacement I would change out Riviera and Rustic.  I don't think are tastes in courses always jive. 

I also see that I forgot a serious doozy - Prestwick and Western Gailes.  There goes Riviera and Rustic.


Sean, it's all good.  I just didn't know also this was purely about YOUR TASTE... I thought you were recommending this to a friend.  See, I haven't based this on MY TASTES... but rather what I think I'd recommend to others.  Spyglass may or may not be anyone's personal cup of tea.... it is very difficult.... but it is "great" almost without argument.

But yes, sayonara Riviera/Rustic... Prestwick + Western Gailes simply must be included.

The Portrush idea is a very tough call for sure - but do you really want to stay at the same club?  If so, delete Pasatiempo (as painful as that is to say.  MPCC Dunes + Shore trumps adding Pasatiempo.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Tim,

Great call on Greenbrier/Homestead... mountain golf doesn't get much better than those two.

[Greg Tallman]

Hang on, the penny just dropped with Hick's comment.  I just realized I was mixing up Cabo del Sol with Casa de Campo!!! I meant to list Teeth of the Dog.  Is there another course which pairs up with this one? Otherwise, I am back down to 17.

Ciao

Sean, Are you in some way suggesting that Teeth is so far superior to Cabo del Sol Ocean that this was some sort of revelation?

Have you had the opportunity to play both courses? If so your reactiojn is rather surprising as Teeth has some rather weak holes and the ocean holes on each would likely lean toward Cabo del Sol as the better golf.

At any rate, I am heading into Huck's corner on this thread.

[Greg Tallman]

Tim,

Great call on Greenbrier/Homestead... mountain golf doesn't get much better than those two.

Oh but it does...

Grandfather & Linville Golf Club

[Tom Huckaby]

Greg makes a hell of a point.. it is FAR FAR FAR from safe to assume that any two courses at Casa di Campo are superior to two from Los Cabos... in fact Cabo del Sol Ocean + any of 4-5 others seem to me as solid as damn near any on the current approved 18 pairs.... make it this new Diamante course - if it turns out as great as the pictures say - and you are talking Cypress-Pebble solid.....

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