[PCCraig]

Rent a pull-cart.

   Because of a bad back it is my only option.

  Anthony

I would rather hear why people use them.

If your health is good enough to actually walk 18 holes and push this huge contraption around the property, why can't you just carry your own bag? Can you bag really be that heavy?

If people want to push their pull carts to kindom come I really don't care, I just would rather do everything in my own power not to use one.

As for the whole "pull carts hurt the course" I do still believe this, and that link was no more scientific than my own theory. They can work in Ireland/Scotland/Bandon because of the firm sandy soil. Try taking  them to a wet parkland course and tell me they are not damaging the course around the greens.

[Brent Hutto]

I would rather hear why people use them.

If your health is good enough to actually walk 18 holes and push this huge contraption around the property, why can't you just carry your own bag? Can you bag really be that heavy?

Because I want to. I can carry a bag, I often do carry my bag. Some days I don't want to carry my bag so I push a trolley.

Same reason that I virtually never ride in a cart. Because I don't want to. Golf is a totally optional leisure activity, the whole thing is done just because I want to.

If people want to push their pull carts to kindom come I really don't care, I just would rather do everything in my own power not to use one.

OK. And likewise, we don't really care.

As for the whole "pull carts hurt the course" I do still believe this, and that link was no more scientific than my own theory. They can work in Ireland/Scotland/Bandon because of the firm sandy soil. Try taking  them to a wet parkland course and tell me they are not damaging the course around the greens.

That's easy. I don't roll my trolley anywhere that it will do damage. Or make footprints anywhere they'll do damage. The main places I have to avoid at my club are the muddy ruts where someone has been driving a cart. Pull carts don't damage turf, people damage turf. Whether with their feet, their trolley, their power cart or some doofus on a mower or a Gator getting bogged down in a wet spot and gouging up a trench that won't heal for months.

[PCCraig]

I would rather hear why people use them.

If your health is good enough to actually walk 18 holes and push this huge contraption around the property, why can't you just carry your own bag? Can you bag really be that heavy?

Because I want to. I can carry a bag, I often do carry my bag. Some days I don't want to carry my bag so I push a trolley.

Same reason that I virtually never ride in a cart. Because I don't want to. Golf is a totally optional leisure activity, the whole thing is done just because I want to.

If people want to push their pull carts to kindom come I really don't care, I just would rather do everything in my own power not to use one.

OK. And likewise, we don't really care.

As for the whole "pull carts hurt the course" I do still believe this, and that link was no more scientific than my own theory. They can work in Ireland/Scotland/Bandon because of the firm sandy soil. Try taking  them to a wet parkland course and tell me they are not damaging the course around the greens.

That's easy. I don't roll my trolley anywhere that it will do damage. Or make footprints anywhere they'll do damage. The main places I have to avoid at my club are the muddy ruts where someone has been driving a cart. Pull carts don't damage turf, people damage turf. Whether with their feet, their trolley, their power cart or some doofus on a mower or a Gator getting bogged down in a wet spot and gouging up a trench that won't heal for months.

Great contribution. Well I suppose the discussion is over.

[Brad Klein]

Garland,

the problem with the business of motorized golf carts is not that the facility doesn't charge enough. They charge way too much -- and generally count on an 60-80% profit rate on cart utilization. The problem is that in accounting for cart revenue they don't take the money and put back enough into the facility to pay for the damage to the course that's been incurred. So it's a decision to withdraw the capital from maintenance and operations funds and to consider it all as simply net profit that is the problem, not the rate. It's like dealing with pollution as a free externality -- same short-sighted planning

[Sam Maryland]

I 10000000% hate pull carts. They do no good for anyone, they are for people who generally can't physically carry their own bag and either 1) want to walk but don't want pay for a cart, (which would help the golf club in revenue) or 2) pay for a caddy.

Then someone may say that this would be the same as someone who carries their own bag, nope because a pull cart can cause more damage to the course than a two person motor cart. (Esp. when people pull them right next to the green).

Sorry for the rant.

I would always prefer to walk, first with a caddy and secondly carrying my own bag, and lastly with a cart.

The "more damage from a pull cart" thing is a total myth. By the logic employed in that argument, one does the most damage by carrying a bag.

a)  To answer the question, I always like to carry the bag.  (8% of the time use a 3-wheel cart my buddy loans me if the back is a little creaky that day)

Lot's of times people say "what did you do today"?  I like to answer with "I hiked 7 miles with a 30lb pack".  They almost always get a look of astonishment on their face and come back with something like "wow, that's ambitious".  Tell a lot of people "I played golf today" and they think "slob rode around and drank beer all day".  Give it a couple hours after the "hike" comment before clueing them in!

b)  Kyle, I completely agree with you -- this argument against pull carts is ludicrous.

I like to think about it this way.  If I placed my hand flat on the cart path, and then you ran over it with a loaded-up golf cart, probably going to be a lousy outcome.  Place the hand on the cart path, have a 185lb man carrying a bag step right on the hand, another lousy outcome.  Hand on cart path and roll over it with a Sun Mountain 3-wheel cart, no worries lets go play some golf.

JMO.

[PCCraig]

I 10000000% hate pull carts. They do no good for anyone, they are for people who generally can't physically carry their own bag and either 1) want to walk but don't want pay for a cart, (which would help the golf club in revenue) or 2) pay for a caddy.

Then someone may say that this would be the same as someone who carries their own bag, nope because a pull cart can cause more damage to the course than a two person motor cart. (Esp. when people pull them right next to the green).

Sorry for the rant.

I would always prefer to walk, first with a caddy and secondly carrying my own bag, and lastly with a cart.

The "more damage from a pull cart" thing is a total myth. By the logic employed in that argument, one does the most damage by carrying a bag.

a)  To answer the question, I always like to carry the bag.  (8% of the time use a 3-wheel cart my buddy loans me if the back is a little creaky that day)

Lot's of times people say "what did you do today"?  I like to answer with "I hiked 7 miles with a 30lb pack".  They almost always get a look of astonishment on their face and come back with something like "wow, that's ambitious".  Tell a lot of people "I played golf today" and they think "slob rode around and drank beer all day".  Give it a couple hours after the "hike" comment before clueing them in!

How much of the astonishment would you loose if you told people you hiked 7 miles pushing a three wheeled buggy around?

[Sam Maryland]

I 10000000% hate pull carts. They do no good for anyone, they are for people who generally can't physically carry their own bag and either 1) want to walk but don't want pay for a cart, (which would help the golf club in revenue) or 2) pay for a caddy.

Then someone may say that this would be the same as someone who carries their own bag, nope because a pull cart can cause more damage to the course than a two person motor cart. (Esp. when people pull them right next to the green).

Sorry for the rant.

I would always prefer to walk, first with a caddy and secondly carrying my own bag, and lastly with a cart.

The "more damage from a pull cart" thing is a total myth. By the logic employed in that argument, one does the most damage by carrying a bag.

a)  To answer the question, I always like to carry the bag.  (8% of the time use a 3-wheel cart my buddy loans me if the back is a little creaky that day)

Lot's of times people say "what did you do today"?  I like to answer with "I hiked 7 miles with a 30lb pack".  They almost always get a look of astonishment on their face and come back with something like "wow, that's ambitious".  Tell a lot of people "I played golf today" and they think "slob rode around and drank beer all day".  Give it a couple hours after the "hike" comment before clueing them in!

How much of the astonishment would you loose if you told people you hiked 7 miles pushing a three wheeled buggy around?

By definition that's slightly more taxing than just hiking 7 miles unencumbered.  And I don't think you'll meet anyone that would suggest hiking 7-miles unencumbered is somehow a lousy effort. 

And like I said, over 90% of the time I carry my own bag and only use the buggy when the back dictates it.

[John Burzynski]

When in Rome...

As much as I like carrying my bag, almost always carry my bag, walk almost all rounds...

When the occasional round arises where the other three members of my foursome are all carting it, I also cart it.  Why be the fourth wheel, and you miss out on some of the socialization.    Just because you ride a cart once in a great while doesn't make you less of a purist or somehow less of a golfer.

[Brent Hutto]

The number of people I'll gladly share a round of golf with is huge. Basically, just about anyone who can play a semblance of the game and who respects the course and their fellow golfers. Probably a couple million people. Golf is fun solo, twosome, foursome, whatever.

The number of people I care enough about to ride around with for four hours in a cart "socializing" is pretty small. Some guys off this forum, maybe a couple of my better friends from my club, neighbors and family. But if I want to shoot the breeze for half a day there are generally more comfortable ways to do it than lurching about over humps and bumps in a four-wheeled electric buggy. If I can arrange to spend that much time at the golf course I'd rather play golf and do my socializing in a dining room after the sun goes down.

Regarding the "hiking" comment...a guy I know entered one of those "walk five miles for charity" things and got people to sponsor him for a buck a mile or whatever it was. Showed up carrying his golf bag full of clubs and wearing spikes and a golf shirt. Told everybody that's what he did every Saturday anyway but this time he was doing it downtown and getting paid for it. I think he went to the course afterwards and played golf anyway.

[Dan Kelly]

Tossing out all hypotheticals, I'm most likely to be carrying my bag....a small bag, with maybe 9 or 10 clubs max, and usually less than 6 balls.

Six balls, Joe? That's three times as many as you need!

----------- As for the hypothetical: I love walking golf courses without a bag on my back -- either to play the game or to watch others play it. And I'm not a big fan of either push/pull carts or caddies. So I'd have no trouble letting one of the cartballers carry my clubs for me.

BUT: The innovation I'd love to see is this: cart caddies -- caddies whose job would be simply to drive a cart carrying the clubs as the players all walked; not to tend flagsticks and provide putting lines, or any of the rest of it -- but just to carry the bags. (Oh, maybe the cart caddies could do some club cleaning, too, and some raking -- if that would keep the game moving.) Two cart caddies per foursome would be just right, I think.

Good stimulus for the economy, too. I wonder if it's in the new federal budget somewhere ....

[Joe Hancock]

Tossing out all hypotheticals, I'm most likely to be carrying my bag....a small bag, with maybe 9 or 10 clubs max, and usually less than 6 balls.

Six balls, Joe? That's three times as many as you need!

Actually, Dan, it's precisely 5 balls more than I need. I bring the extras for my playing partners to use when they run out. (getting you back on the golf track here)

(insert opponenticon here)

Joe

[Dave Givnish]

Pace of play is more of an issue to me in the cart vs. "four-bagger" vs. trolley vs. walking discussion.  We allow all four at our club (no caddies unfortunately) using the Sun Mountain push carts.  And no, the push carts are not allowed across the greens.

Four-baggers are by far the slowest option.  Deciding who has to mind the cart, driving to get everyone clubs, etc. takes too much time.  The round is ruined for the poor person who has to ride a cart and gets to do all this by default.  I will use them when showing a person the course for the first time.  Walking our course gives them a much better sense of how to play it, and there are very few good walking courses in Arizona.

How many walking rounds do you see at U.S. clubs and courses that don't require caddies or walking anyway?  We rarely see more than 20% in the anything-but-cart categories.

Dave

[Joel Zuckerman]

So I'd have no trouble letting one of the cartballers carry my clubs for me.

BUT: The innovation I'd love to see is this: cart caddies -- caddies whose job would be simply to drive a cart carrying the clubs as the players all walked; not to tend flagsticks and provide putting lines, or any of the rest of it -- but just to carry the bags. (Oh, maybe the cart caddies could do some club cleaning, too, and some raking -- if that would keep the game moving.) Two cart caddies per foursome would be just right, I think.

Good stimulus for the economy, too. I wonder if it's in the new federal budget somewhere ....

Several responders have made comments to the effect that strapping on and then walking could be construed as rude to the rest of the gang.  What I neglected to mention in my original post is that in my regular weekly game, if there's an empty slot on somebody's golf cart, I ALWAYS strap on, and then walk.  This gang of 6-8 other players, all riders in a cart-centric community, are completely used to it, as they are the fact I play the blues, and they the whites, so there's no "social stigma" whatsoever.

Dan--as for cart caddies, some friends and I have done that a number of times..turning the tables on the traditional role of forecaddies.  Teeth of the Dog comes immediately to mind. Imagine the glee the caddies feel when they realize that they don't have to run along side the cart..they get to drive it along, while WE progress under our own power.

[Jamie Barber]

I always carry. I did play most of last year with just 8 clubs, scores actually improved. I ought to try that again...

It's my only real exercise (the thrice weekly legover doesn't count!)   

[Cliff Hamm]

Tiger made an interesting comment yesterday.  Said he forgot how long a round of golf takes because had had been playing cart ball and only taking 2.5 hours....as for me, in my late 50's, I would surely take the cart and walk option.  When I play with my wife, who has two 'new' knees and therefore rides this is often the option I use.

[Carl Nichols]

I would try to convince one of the other guys to walk with me.  If that fails, I would ride, for reasons already stated by others. 

Re push carts, I don't see how, if their use is managed correctly, they would cause anywhere near as much damage as riding.  What I've always found most interesting is the cultural bias against push carts in the U.S. -- I would get mocked at my club if I started using one!

[Cliff Hamm]

What I've always found most interesting is the cultural bias against push carts in the U.S. -- I would get mocked at my club if I started using one!

Unfortunately golf in America continues to have elitist roots.  Push carts are viewed as only for muni golfers who traditionally could not afford a caddy.  Exclusive private clubs have never allowed push carts and I would argue it is the vestiges of elitism or worse the continuation of elitism of golf in America.

[Brent Hutto]

My club is not exclusive (meaning my granddaddy didn't have to know the right people's granddaddy for me to get in) but it is private. The norm among walkers is to use three-wheelerd, a mix of manual ones and battery-powered ones. I have never heard even second- or third-hand of anyone thinking less of us because our members like to use trolleys, our club's course is quite highly regarded locally in fact.

That may be different in other locales, this is the only area I've lived in since I started playing golf.

[Rob Rigg]

I would rather carry my bag - I have done this before when everyone else is riding in carts and no one has had an issue.

I think the strap and walk option can lead to longer rounds and frustration because you may have to wait to get your clubs if you aren't playing good "cart ball" with your partner.

My wife cannot walk the course, so she'll take a cart and I'll carry. It actually is fairly beneficial because she is stopping and starting a lot and it allows her to keep up with me a bit better.

Sidenote - the number of calories burned between pushing a cart and carrying a bag is minimal.

Push carts are also super easy on your body - sun mountain even have a part electric one now.

It would be much better for the golfer and the course if motorized carts went away and the courses rented power push carts. Retain revenue, no cart paths, better for the turf and the environment and far better exercise for the golfer.

[Phil_the_Author]

I would prefer to carry my bag but suffer from sensitively weak shoulders... 

It's pull carts for me...

[Rob Rigg]

Pull carts or push carts?

Push carts are much easier on your body - you can tweak a lat hauling your pull cart up a hill 

[james soper]

carry my own bag. always seem to play better.

[George Pazin]

I have had a few occasions where I ended up riding with a fellow gca'er. It wasn't planned, but we ended up kind of taking turns doing some driving and doing some walking. I find it enjoyable to grab a couple clubs and say, meet you at the green.

Kinda sad that anyone would hate on a pull cart.

[Joel Zuckerman]

I think the strap and walk option can lead to longer rounds and frustration because you may have to wait to get your clubs if you aren't playing good "cart ball" with your partner.

This is an excellent point.  I never expect my cart-partner to be at my beck-and-call.  When we leave the tee box, I usually grab the 2-3 most likely clubs I'll need for the approach, and after the second shot, will always grab the wedge-and-putter.  (Someday I hope to grab ONLY the putter...one can only hope!)

This way you are putting virtually no strain on the fellow in the cart, are playing in an expedient fashion, and are only walking the fairways with a club or two in hand...not a bag of 14.

[Tom Huckaby]

I have had a few occasions where I ended up riding with a fellow gca'er. It wasn't planned, but we ended up kind of taking turns doing some driving and doing some walking. I find it enjoyable to grab a couple clubs and say, meet you at the green.

Kinda sad that anyone would hate on a pull cart.

George:

FOR SHAME!  You actually rode in a cart?  Takes balls to admit that in here man.  Next thing you know you're gonna say you actually carry 14 clubs from time to time, keep score, and notice scenery.....

As for me, screw everyone else.  I always walk, carrying my two hickory sticks, my pouch of sand, with two extra featheries in my pocket.

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