British Open rota

[Jamie Barber]

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think it is suprising what little space you can get away with for spectators and a grandstand does not take as much space   as perhaps you might first think. If you think of Lytham its quite tight in places and Carnoustie has lots of areas that spetactators can't go, even at 17/18. St Andrews is largely just corridor down the sides.
The real NEED is the space for tented villages, car parks.
I do not know enough about Deal to comment. Mark would know more about the rumours and the truth's. My own opinion would be that the R & A would use the tried and tested one next door, working with the same committees is much easier year after year. I expect it is all quite demanding.

[Jamie Barber]

As a point of principle I think it's a shame they don't take the Championship to more courses. I certainly think there are plenty of links that are worthy of hosting it, and variety would be a good thing. I also disagree with taking it back to TOC as often as they do.

However, I think the R&A have no interest.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jamie - You seem to be ignoring the posts and the reasons. The infrastructure is more important than the course. The St Andrews Opens are the special ones, its the one that generates the most ££££ and the one the players really love.

[Andrew Mitchell]

I would be surprised if the R&A are giving serious consideration to adding anyone else to the rota.  Hoylake & Turnberry have both been added back to the rota in recent years and there are now nine courses apparantly active on the rota:

TOC
Carnoustie
Muirfield
Royal Troon
Turnberry
Royal Lytham
Royal Birkdale
Royal Liverpool
Royal St Georges

On the basis that TOC gets the Open every 5 years that means the other courses get it every ten years.  I thought I'd read (but can't remember where) that the R&A were happy with that scenario.

If anywhere else were to be added then one of the Kent coast courses would seem to be in the driving seat given their proximity to centres of population and the fact that the Open only goes that far south once every ten years or so.

[Jamie Barber]

Adrian - I'm not ignoring them - but I don't believe the infrastructure argument. Sandwich wouldn't get on the rota on that basis (I know, I live there), and Muirfield/Troon/Turnberry are hardly easy to get to. Therefore, if these courses are on the rota, I cannot believe the R&A couldn't take it elsewhere (Royal Aberdeen would have better infrastructure then all of those, not least a commerical airport close by).

TOC might generate the £££ but my opinion is that it's no longer a strong enough test for a tournament designed to find the champion golfer for the year. Dare I say dewy-eyed sentimentality?

I guess the argument is irrelevant anyway, because the R&A's position is very clear.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jamie- Infrastructure is so much more than just the road networks. You are correct, most Open rota courses are difficult to get to, I suspect ALL links golf courses would be and some will be very difficult.
It is the whole package of about 20 things where the boxes need to be ticked.
Even for the regional qualfying for the championship, it involves a lot of box ticking to get selected.

[Jamie Barber]

It can't be more than access to the course, access and space on the course and accommodation /ammenities in the near vicinity. I'm not suggesting moving to the more remote courses like Islay or Brancaster - but can infrastructure really be the main the reason we are restricted to the current list? On that basis some of the existing venues don't really cut it. I just think it would be nice to have a larger rotation. We have so many great courses, it's shame it's a closed shop - which I guess is political (by which I mean there isn't the will to expand the list)

PS it's not just golf - I preferred it when they played England international at different venues whilst Wembley was being rebuilt

[James Boon]

I can assure you councils virtually knock the door down at St Andrews not the other way round, the Open is worth a considerable on going income to the local economies.

Mark, I was thinking of the cost of any infrastructure upgrades etc but having just read the Dover District Council report again:
“The economic impact study suggests that the 2003 Open Championship at Royal St
Georges resulted in an additional spending within the local economy of East Kent of about
£17.6 million. Thousands of temporary jobs were created directly to set-up, service and take
down the event. These direct jobs equated to 176 full-time equivalents, of which some 112
FTE were sourced from the East Kent economy."
I suppose most councils wouldn't mind an addiional £17.6 million being spent in their region!

And my Cruise Ships suggestion was a little tongue in cheek, but hey I'm sure many great ideas have started that way 

I'd love to see an Open at say Dornoch or Deal, I'm just not sure the R&A want to do it at the moment, otherwise I'm sure they would make it happen?

Cheers,

James

[James Boon]

It can't be more than access to the course, access and space on the course and accommodation /ammenities in the near vicinity. I'm not suggesting moving to the more remote courses like Islay or Brancaster - but can infrastructure really be the main the reason we are restricted to the current list? On that basis some of the existing venues don't really cut it. I just think it would be nice to have a larger rotation. We have so many great courses, it's shame it's a closed shop - which I guess is political (by which I mean there isn't the will to expand the list)

PS it's not just golf - I preferred it when they played England international at different venues whilst Wembley was being rebuilt

Jamie,

Welcome to GCA!

I meant to quote you last night when I posted, but it was late and seemed to miss it...

I agree with you (and on the England playing away from Wembley point also) in that we have so many great courses in this country, it would be great to see some of those not currently on the rota, hosting an Open. In the US they have recently opened it up to include Bethpage (from across the pon this seemed a good choice to me) and Torrey (not sure about that one though), so as we have said, it seems that the will is just not there? Shame!

Cheers,

James

[Niall C]

Adrian - I'm not ignoring them - but I don't believe the infrastructure argument. Sandwich wouldn't get on the rota on that basis (I know, I live there), and Muirfield/Troon/Turnberry are hardly easy to get to. Therefore, if these courses are on the rota, I cannot believe the R&A couldn't take it elsewhere (Royal Aberdeen would have better infrastructure then all of those, not least a commerical airport close by).

TOC might generate the £££ but my opinion is that it's no longer a strong enough test for a tournament designed to find the champion golfer for the year. Dare I say dewy-eyed sentimentality?

I guess the argument is irrelevant anyway, because the R&A's position is very clear.

[Niall C]

Adrian - I'm not ignoring them - but I don't believe the infrastructure argument. Sandwich wouldn't get on the rota on that basis (I know, I live there), and Muirfield/Troon/Turnberry are hardly easy to get to. Therefore, if these courses are on the rota, I cannot believe the R&A couldn't take it elsewhere (Royal Aberdeen would have better infrastructure then all of those, not least a commerical airport close by).

TOC might generate the £££ but my opinion is that it's no longer a strong enough test for a tournament designed to find the champion golfer for the year. Dare I say dewy-eyed sentimentality?

I guess the argument is irrelevant anyway, because the R&A's position is very clear.

Sorry pressed the wrong button previously !

Jamie, at the risk of getting shouted down again, I think you are wrong about Troon. As someone who goes to all the Opens when they are in Scotland, Troon has to be about the easiest and best served for road and rail. Its vitually all dual carriage way in and out and the parking is on the Portland Course which is virtually adjacent to the course.

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

James - Cruise ships do dock at Dover for the championship. I've stayed on one in Newcastle for the Great North Run, not a daft idea.

I would love to see a smaller venue once every 10 to 15 years, however there is a huge investment for a smaller return. The USGA must be taking a hit going to Merion.

[Jamie Barber]

Niall - point taken - Troon/Turnberry are probably bad examples as I guess they are not too far form Glasgow.

PS didn't mean to "shout you down" before, just a tongue-in-cheek comment

[Mark Chaplin]

I cannot imagine the R&A moaning the fact that the last six TOC Opens were won by; Woods, Woods, Daly, Faldo, Seve and Nicklaus.

Woods may have won with 14 and 19 under par but that is with the generous par of 72.

[Niall C]

Niall - point taken - Troon/Turnberry are probably bad examples as I guess they are not too far form Glasgow.

PS didn't mean to "shout you down" before, just a tongue-in-cheek comment

actually, I think you were right about Turnberry. It will be interesting to see how it goes this year.

[Philippe Binette]

Kingsbarns is not going to make it...

I loved the front nine, lots of subtleties,  the back nine is too 'American' (sorry folks) for the Open... It just doesn't have the feel of links golf on the back nine, and 16th 17th and 18th are ?

The Renaissance Club has more chance than Kingsbarns and it's probably not going to make it (unless every links courses are flooded due to global warming). Although the Renaissance Club is probably more linksy than Lytham and St Annes... The pine forest on the first few holes would just be too much...

Castle Stuart could have a chance... I don't know if Inverness can take it though.

[Philippe Binette]

When playing Crail 4-5 and 6 I think, we thought hell if there's a playoff for the Open they should bring it here... 60 feet high open steep bank for 600 yards could host a lot, a lot of people

[Mark Pearce]

When playing Crail 4-5 and 6 I think, we thought hell if there's a playoff for the Open they should bring it here... 60 feet high open steep bank for 600 yards could host a lot, a lot of people

4 and 5 would be fantastic play off holes, one a par 3 1/2, one a 41/2 and all that water on the right.....

[jeffwarne]

TOC might generate the £££ but my opinion is that it's no longer a strong enough test for a tournament designed to find the champion golfer for the year. Dare I say dewy-eyed sentimentality?

the last 2 winners at St. Andrews are Tiger Woods-nuff said-
save Daly in '95,they've had the best players of their era EVERY TIME.

or are we trying to identify Lawrie and Van deVelde?

[Philippe Binette]

woods wins were without strong winds... TOC with a 15-20 mph wind is another animal

[Anthony Gray]

Kingsbarns is not going to make it...

I loved the front nine, lots of subtleties,  the back nine is too 'American' (sorry folks) for the Open... It just doesn't have the feel of links golf on the back nine, and 16th 17th and 18th are ?

The Renaissance Club has more chance than Kingsbarns and it's probably not going to make it (unless every links courses are flooded due to global warming). Although the Renaissance Club is probably more linksy than Lytham and St Annes... The pine forest on the first few holes would just be too much...

Castle Stuart could have a chance... I don't know if Inverness can take it though.

  Phillipe,

  Too new but not too American. The first par 3 is the postage stamp (very Scotish). 16 with the small burn behind the green is very unamerican. In America water is infront of the green never behind. 18 is very similiar to a hole at Turnberry. 12 very american yes.12 reminds me of a hole I have played in California.

  I think KB is not tradional enough for The Open.

  I am curious how Castle Stuart is recieved.

  Anthony

[Mark Hissey]

Wales needs an Open. Unfortunately, Porthcawl won't qualify. What would qualify is a new golf course on this land:

http://www.charliesbirdblog.com/~charlie/kenfig11july06/kenfig_04.jpg

[jeffwarne]

Wales needs an Open. Unfortunately, Porthcawl won't qualify. What would qualify is a new golf course on this land:

http://www.charliesbirdblog.com/~charlie/kenfig11july06/kenfig_04.jpg

Wonder if Trump and one of the Fazios(or maybe a cousin) are available?

[Dean Stokes]

Wales needs an Open. Unfortunately, Porthcawl won't qualify. What would qualify is a new golf course on this land:

http://www.charliesbirdblog.com/~charlie/kenfig11july06/kenfig_04.jpg

Wonder if Trump and one of the Fazios(or maybe a cousin) are available?

Damn. you beat me to it by 8 mins Jeff!!!!