1st time on TOC. To caddy or not to caddy?

[Bob_Huntley]

First time take a caddie. IM me and I'll give you a couple of names that know the ropes, are sober and can play.

Bob

[Mike Benham]

... that know the ropes, are sober and can play.

Is there one of these qualities that is more important the others?   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Actually, my funniest caddy insult came at Pinehurst.  Old "Willie" who said he caddied for Ross, Ellis Maples, and Hogan among others watched me "de-green" a putt at the 5th.

"Oh, I knew you were going to do that"

"How?"

"You took a small backswing!"

[Kalen Braley]

Perhaps its just been overlooked but...

Can't you just ask your playing partners where the hole goes and to describe it for you on the tee?  I think this is techincally against the rules, but if your just playing in a friendly, I don't see the harm.

I can't think of a course I've ever played as a single or otherwise where I wasn't paired with at least a few people who knew the course well enough to give me some basic idea of what trouble lie ahead and in what general direction to hit the ball.

Just a thought.....

P.S. I guess you could be unlucky and paired with 3 other 1st timers on your initial maiden voyage around the old beauty.

[Brad Klein]

You can reduce some of the arbitrary luck of the draw by speaking the day before with the caddie master and asking for him to set you up with someone of at least reasonable looping skill and disposition. That should help considerably.

The marginal cost of a caddie is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things, and there's no course in Scotland where a caddie is more helpful the first time out than The Old Course. And if money is a problem, you're better off eating fish n' chips for three nights; that will recoup half the fee anyway.

[Mike Benham]

On my only go round, we played without a caddie and somehow successfully missed all fairway bunkers sans one ... 


Not to create a mini-firestorm or go off tangent to this topic but do the modern (younger) caddies at TOC use lasers range finders?

[Ken Moum]

Perhaps its just been overlooked but...

Can't you just ask your playing partners where the hole goes and to describe it for you on the tee?  I think this is techincally against the rules, but if your just playing in a friendly, I don't see the harm.

I can't think of a course I've ever played as a single or otherwise where I wasn't paired with at least a few people who knew the course well enough to give me some basic idea of what trouble lie ahead and in what general direction to hit the ball.

Just a thought.....

P.S. I guess you could be unlucky and paired with 3 other 1st timers on your initial maiden voyage around the old beauty.

Kalen, given the nature of play at The Old, I think it's more likely that you'll be paired with tourists, who aren't familiar with the course.

And as far another comment here about the caddies being on mission to get people around the course, that's true. They are clearly taught to keep things moving. Without that, rounds on The Old would take five hours.

What with gorse, pot bunkers, too many Americans, and the endless photos to be taken, things get to dragging pretty badly.

Ken

[Joe Fairey]

Tony,

Most definitely...take a caddie....you'll enjoy your first round there so much more...wish I could be there....I'd caddie for you...comp...

also, for anyone else, I wiil be in SA...July 14-17...if anyone else will be there during these days, pls let me know....would enjoy a drink somewhere...IM if interested...

[TX Golf]

Absolutely.... I couldn't imagine having played it the first time without one... They also add quite a bit to the overall experience.

[Ronald Montesano]

Kalen, it's not against the rules to ask the lay of the land...you can go so far as to ask "is there a bunker out there?" and "how f($#*ng far is the f(#*8ng bunker?"  You cannot ask "What would you/did you hit?" or "Should I hit ...?"  It is a p.i.t.a., however, to constantly ask your partners where to go (if you do it enough, they'll tell you, soon enough.)

I played Old and New once, was broke, didn't take a caddy.  After crapping up the first 16 on Old, I dunked a 12-footer for par on 17 and played 18 driver-runner through the valley and earned the other players' caddies' praise and respect.  If I were to go back, I would follow Mr. Brad Klein's advice and check in the day before with Mr. Starter.  Eliminate the arbitrary and you'll eliminate one difficulty.  Since Mr. Brad caddied on the tour, he's likely to know.

[Pete Lavallee]

On my first trip around TOC my wife and I were on our honeymoon. We put our names on the ballot and where just about to return to Russacks Hotel when our names were called at 6:00pm. We were paired with an American father and son who had already enlisted caddies, so we politely asked if they would advise us, as we were more than capable of carrying our bags. They agreed and frankly I can't imagine tackling TOC without their advise on the first go round. Even with a Strokesaver, finding the right line off the tee on several holes is near impossible; 3, 4 , 6 & 12 come to mind.

By the way we finished our round at 10:30 and headed over to the Niblick for a quick pint. They kicked us out at 11:00 and one of the caddies headed home to Dundee on the bus. The other came to Russacks and had several adult beverages with us; the Hotel Bar could stay open as late as they wanted to if guests were there. He ended up sleeping on the floor of the Honeymoon Suite that night; probably the only Old Course caddy who can say he's spent the night at Rusacks! They caddied for us the next day on our scheduled round and asked us "how much you spendin for tha expensive hotel rooom"? They offered to let us stay with them at their apartment in Dundee and we became life long friends who we are still in touch with to this day. Take the Caddy!

[Sean Walsh]

Tony,

My advice would be to take a caddy.

From my time there I'd say that there are probably 20-30 good caddies at TOC, about 50-60 that will do a good enough job to keep you out of trouble and not piss you off too much and probably 10 or so that are crap and need to be told to shutup and just carry the bag (preferably halfway down the 1st).

FBD,

Do you know who picked up the Caddy masters job?  Hopefully not one of the assistants (prone to playing stupid favouritism games).  Rick was an interesting personality, not the most endearing person I've ever met but on balance I think he did a reasonable job.  The hardest thing for the caddy master at St Andrews is balancing the need to keep the experienced caddies happy while also creating a situation where there are enough competent caddies available to cover the 3-4 month peak.

Mike,

No re the range finders, although their are yardages on sprinklers and caddies are sold a detailed yardage book when they sign on.  After 20-30 rounds I think I had my yardages down pretty good.  I remember one guy late in the year offering me a laser to use while I caddied for him.  He checked just about all the yardages I gave him on the front nine, from memory there was only once I was different by more than two yards and that was about 5 or 6.  Luckily he stopped by the time we turned into the wind and I was able to inflate the yardages a bit to make sure he got to the green 

Hey Joe  how's things..

[Chuck Brown]

You should take a caddie your first time around The Old Course, unless you have had the chance to walk it the Sunday before you play.  You will not always be able to tell where you are going otherwise.

Not all of the caddies are Tip Anderson, but every one of them knows more about the course than you do.  Even if you draw the worst guy there, he can shoulder the bag while you are trying to figure out what the heck to do next.

This is absolutely spot-on advice from somebody who knows.

My first round there, shortly before Tom began his brief career as a St. Andrews caddy, was when I was a struggling starving student with no extra money for a caddy.  My golf buddy and I were paired with a "disabled" North Sea oil worker who was a single digit player and who had a caddy.  (That's right -- on a disability from Shell, a single-digit player, with money to afford a top-notch Old Course caddy.    He was a helluva nice guy, too.)  Anyway, we made it clear on the first tee to the caddy that we were just a few years out of caddying ourselves, and it was our first time on TOC.  The caddy was spectacularly nice to us, and we'd have been very, very much worse off without him.  We threw a few quid his way in the end, and were HAPPY to do it!

You will have paid a lot of money to go to St. Andrews, and to play TOC.  Not getting a caddy for your first tour around TOC is like giong to the French Riviera, renting a Ferrari, and then not buying any gasoline for it because gas prices are too high.

[Sean_A]

Tony

It all depends on whether you want to experience the course on your own (friends included) or be guided round.  What I am finding interesting in this thread is that it seems to be an overwhelmingly American attitude to take a caddie.  I wonder if Brits responded in the same numbers if the YEA consensus would be anything like it currently is.  For my part, I didn't want anything to do with a caddie and I didn't take one.  I never once went in a bunker I couldn't see and just remembered to stay left.  It made for some interesting approaches which I tried to alter the subsequent rounds.  It really isn't nearly a big a deal as folks are making out on this thread.  You have played plenty of holes where you didn't really know what was going on.  Did you find any of the results disastrous?  The best advice I can give you is to remember first and foremost that you are still playing a game. 

Ciao   

[Mitch Hantman]

Tony,

I agree that the first time out on the Old, a caddie is very important, however you didn't mention who you are playing with.  If they have played it before many times, or if they are locals, you may not need a caddie.

[Bill_McBride]

On my only go round, we played without a caddie and somehow successfully missed all fairway bunkers sans one ... 


Not to create a mini-firestorm or go off tangent to this topic but do the modern (younger) caddies at TOC use lasers range finders?

None that I saw.  I think Melvyn would throttle any that dared. 

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, it's not against the rules to ask the lay of the land...you can go so far as to ask "is there a bunker out there?" and "how f($#*ng far is the f(#*8ng bunker?"  You cannot ask "What would you/did you hit?" or "Should I hit ...?"  It is a p.i.t.a., however, to constantly ask your partners where to go (if you do it enough, they'll tell you, soon enough.)

Ronald,

I may just be differnet in that I'm a social golfer and love talking about the course as much as anyone else can stand it.  Its always just been added interest to talk about hole strategy and to give and get someone elses opinion.

But after having a chat with another GCA'er offline I realize that I've likely never played a course like TOC with so many "blind shots/head scratchers/rhetotical "where the $#@&*# do I hit the ball now" holes.  So I guess I'd likely have too many queries.  But as one other person suggested, I have played the course on the TW xbox game several times.  Problem with that game is its too easy to avoid the bunkers, although the approach shots can be a bitch with the green slopes

[Bill Gayne]

Caddy because as an Irish golf pro told me that the Old Course is the ultimate "nook and cranny" course and what makes the Old Course caddies the best is that the experienced ones know all the "nooks and crannies."

[Philippe Binette]

walk the course on sunday (spend 3-4 hours on it) it's even better than a caddie, you have to be comfortable on the course, no caddie can do that for you...

A friend once said:

TOC is a 7 at most (doak scale) for the first time player who hasn't walk the course before... It's a 10 for the player who plays in 4-5 times

[Sean Leary]

Of any course in the world, you should have a caddy the first time at TOC. You only have 1 1st round. Make it special. I feel the same way about courses like Pebble Beach as well....

[ed_getka]

I would advise against taking a caddy. The first time at TOC there is so much to see from 150 yards in that you will be in sensory overload as it is. There is too much to glean from the course in even 100 rounds so how much more can you possibly absorb with the aid of a caddy? Yes a caddy can help you shoot a lower score, but is that what you are really there for on your first time around?
    I tried manipulating my itinerary every way I possibly could on my first trip to Scotland so I could be in town on Sunday and spend the whole day walking the course before I played it, but unfortunately it just wasn't possible. I do not regret playing 36 holes in one day at TOC without a caddy. It was a magical experience.

[Rob Rigg]

Richard - That's hilarious, exactly what I was thinking when I saw the thread? I feel like I know Pebble, TOC, Cog Hill, Westchester, etc. like the back of my hand after hanging out with TW Wii Golf.

But in all seriousness - can walking the course once really provide you with the insight that you would get from a good caddy?

As has been mentioned, you're at the home of golf, you're spending some good but worthwhile coin, what is an extra X dollars to give yourself a shot at really enjoying the round because you'll have a much better chance of being in play and being able to play the course like it should be.

[Mark Chaplin]

Sounds like the Links Trust needs a decent scoring system to get rid of the 10 dreadful caddies.

From a Brit point of view it adds to an expensive round although I did hit into one of the disaster bunkers off the 7th tee not knowing where to go.

At least there is an option not to have a caddie!

[Chris Kane]

I'd walk around the course before you play (even if its along the path between the Old and New courses on the way out, then along the fence on the way in), then play without a caddie.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I'd walk around the course before you play (even if its along the path between the Old and New courses on the way out, then along the fence on the way in), then play without a caddie.

This would be my choice if I were you Tony...

As you've stated yourself, nothing better than leaving your hotel with golf shoes on and bag on your back to stroll up to the first tee, bang away and strike out without a care in the world...

I have never used a caddy in my life.... I can obviously see the advantages (both golfing and job creation-wise) but I prefer to share my round with other golfers who are there for fun and not employment... I am probably missing out on an integral part of the game but I've come this far...