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Patrick_Mucci

# 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« on: February 06, 2009, 08:43:40 PM »
As you step onto the 2nd tee, your mood and outlook with respect to your play of the 2nd hole may have been predetermined by what took place on the 1st hole.

Typically, in tournaments, there's a back up on the second hole, so you get to watch the golfers playing to the 1st green.

# 2 plays at 330/270, uphill, considerably uphill, then somewhat downhill.

The tee shot is completely blind.
Fortunately, the tee has been properly sloped, uphill, to assist with getting the ball airborne.  This is a very helpful feature.  However, golfers who don't properly shift their weight back to their left side on the downswing, usually fan their tee shot.

As the golfer stares up at the horizon/ridge confronting them, there used to be a tuft of wild grass sitting atop it, that was a great directional marker for the center of the green.  This was sometimes refered to as Don King.
This feature has been removed, but, most caddies position themselves at a location that gives the golfer an aiming point.

While the carry is only 200/150 yards, it plays much, much longer.
In addition, a prevailing wind is often in your face. 
Almost everyone I know tries to drive the green.


The ridge line is a diagonal, with the longer portion of the diagonal being the best line to the green.
Beneath the ridge, facing the golfer are a series of bunkers cut into the rising hillside.

Once the ridgeline has been cleared a plateau greets the golfer, but, that plateau falls off sharply to the right and to the left.

The fairly large mildly undulating/sloped green, at about 13,000 sq/ft sits on a plateau that's lower than the fairway plateau in the DZ.

Thus, balls off line on the drive will end up in a deep hollow to the right, leaving the golfer with a blind approach from deep rough.  A similar, but not as pronounced fate awaits the golfer who goes left.  Balls hit long, over the green, drop off the planet to much lower terrain.

The tee shot must be well struck and aligned commensurate with one's ability.  Failure to do either can produce disastrous results.

However, the short distance on the approach, even for mishit or misaligned shots, combined with a very large, fairly benign putting surface create broad margins of error.

Hole location is a huge factor when the greens are fast and firm.
Any location near the perimeter of the green is beyond dicey.

Drives not reaching the fairway plateau are left to the mercy of random lies, some of which can be very difficult.  Thus, there's no guarantee that the approach will find the green.  Drives hit right invariably run down the sloping plateau to a deep hollow of knee deep rough, leaving the golfer with a blind uphill approach.   Drives hit left have to carry a greater distance and as such don't suffer such a dire fate as drives hit left.

Drives coming to rest on the fairway plateau have an interesting dilema based on hole location.

One of the neatest, most subtle feature is found just short of the green.
The fairway plateau, in a ramp like movement transitions down to the green, flattening out just short of the green.  The subtle feature is an almost invisible, slight uphill front to the green.

This front, only a few feet in length, completely frustrates approach shots hit short of the green when the hole location is toward the front of the green.

It's an insidious feature since the golfer knows that if his approach lands on the down sloping ramp leading to the green, the ball will hurdle forward, rapidly moving toward the back of the green, possibly going over the green.  So, even though a very short shot remains, those two features combine to frustrate the golfers attempt to get close to the hole.

Balls hit directly to the green will probably come to rest in the middle or toward the back of the green leaving the golfer with a very long putt.

Bump and run approaches are tempting.

However, the wind can be a determining factor in club selection and play.

Do you want to get the ball up, with good spin, or do you want to play a lower shot with high rpms, or, do you want to play along the green ?
The choices are many.

Once on the putting surface, distance is usually the determining factor, although the green does have contour and slope, and when it's at pace, putting is a challenge, and, if the golfer is above the hole, the ball can get away from the golfer leading to a three putt.

So, here you are, back at the tee with a wall of tall, thick fescue, bunkers, a hillside and berms in front of you, and, you're disoriented.  Where do you aim ?

Even when the caddy shows you the line, you're still insecure about the play of the hole and that insecurity can translate to a poor swing or poor judgement.

A good drive elates the golfer because a birdie is now a strong possibilty in his mind back on the tee.  A really good drive can follow the terrain on the plateau, down the ramp and onto the green.

A bad drive means that a birdie is still possible, with a little luck, but, the golfer may be fighting for a par, or worse, so, the walk up the hill is either one buoyed by great expectations or great trepidation.

Once your ball is found, and you see for the first time, where you are, relative to where the hole is located, you begin to formulate your attack or recovery.

Blind recoveries from poor lies in the rough are always challenging, especially to a slick green.

A golfer who has found the plateaued fairway can find his euphoria short lived if the hole is cut in a dicey location, for even though he could throw his ball on the green, the approach must be well thought out and well executed, otherwise this short hole, a potential birdie in almost everybody's mind, can turn into a very disappointing score.

The golfer can't ignore the score he made on the first hole, for if he bogied it, the fear of bogeying the second hole and starting the round two over par is very annoying.

So, care must be exercised to plan and execute a good shot, one that makes sure that a high score will not result from a marginal miss.

Choose the right club, the proper shot, but make sure that the worse you'll make is a par.

Often, golfers who drive the green are so excited at the prospect of making an eagle that they three or four putt the green.

It was on this hole in 1996 that I came to understand that Tiger Woods was special.
The hole was playing into a misting/drizzling wind.
I hit my best drive, I killed it, and just made it to the very front of the green, a green that's about 30 yards deep.  Tiger Woods hit it to the back of the green ...... with a 3-iron.  That's when I knew that he was different.

On the 1st tee, the golfer thinks that the early holes can get him under par.
Walking off the 2nd green either confirms that belief or dashes one's hopes for a good jump on the golf course.

Pictures from the tee, plateau and most importantly, from behind the green, would be appreciated, as would pictures of the terrain right, left and behind the green.

Thanks


Ed Oden

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 09:39:16 PM »
Patrick, this picture was taken from a considerable distance away.  I have zoomed in quite a bit to just show #2 from behind, so the quality is less than ideal.  But hopefully it gives some sense of the relative elevation of fairway to green as well as the trouble lurking for those that go long.



Ed

Charlie Goerges

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 10:08:36 PM »
Hole 2 Aerial:


Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

John Mayhugh

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 11:24:32 PM »
In a 36 hole day, I ended up with 300+ photos and wish I had more!  Here's some of the second hole to complement Patrick's wonderful commentary:

From the tee. 


From the left rough on the way up to my pulled tee shot.


The green from further up the left rough.


The fairway looking back toward the tee from the green.


The second fairway viewed from the far back tee on three.


The second green from the member's tee on three.


Unfortunately, nothing from the fairway.  As I said, 300 pics was not enough.

Phil McDade

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 11:33:28 PM »
In the hope of not asking a dumb question ;)

From the (newish) runway tee on the backside of #1 green, the windmill clearly looks like it's potentially in the line of play. Is it? If one can drive this green, would a somewhat overcooked/over-yanked fade on the tee shoot run the risk of hitting the windmill? Perhaps a given day's wind condition might dictate an aggressive line at and maybe over the windmill?

I had no idea the windmill at NGLA came remotely into (potentially) play.


Bill_McBride

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 11:50:30 PM »
The windmill is way far left of the desired line(s).

Michael Moore

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 12:18:02 AM »
Phil McDade -

The windmill is 6.8 degrees off of the line between the tips and the center of the green.

PS - I'm now waiting for Tom Paul to chime in with the time he hooked one into the windmill, found a maiden grinding up wheat, and disappeared for the rest of the round.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 12:27:22 AM by Michael Moore »
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

John Mayhugh

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 12:54:46 AM »
The windmill is way far left of the desired line(s).

That doesn't mean it can't come into play!  ;D



Bill_McBride

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 12:56:20 AM »
The windmill is way far left of the desired line(s).

That doesn't mean it can't come into play!  ;D


10-4  ;D

ed_getka

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 01:14:34 AM »
Patrick,
   I'm glad you mentioned the hollow for those who play safe to the right. I thought it was an absolutely brilliant feature that was incorporated into the strategy of the hole. Thanks for taking the time to put so much detail into your descriptions of the hole.

   It is interesting how the course is seen from the aerials. From ground level the first two holes are brilliant, but from the aerials they look disjointed as if the holes don't fit the land, which couldn't be further from the reality.

Thanks for taking the time to post photos guys. I never get tired of looking at this course. NGLA is still the first course I would send any aspiring golf course architect to study.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 07:55:47 AM »
Phil McDade,

The Windmill is clearly in play.

It's windows are shattered by errant drives.

When the hole is cut far left drives are intentionally hit closer to the windmill.

The wind and/or a pull or hook makes a distinguishable sound.
One only hopes that they've received a generous bounce.

Play at or over the Windmill is NEVER a consideration.

John,

The photos are terrific and help give a clear impression of the terrain.
If you read the text and view the photos you get a good feel for what the golfer faces.

Ed Getka,

Agreed, the aerials are misleading, which is why I've always cautioned against judging a golf course from 4,000 to 10,000 feet.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 08:42:23 AM »
One thing the aerials WILL show clearly, which I had never realized until I saw aerials of the whole course, is that on very many holes the approach to the green is offset significantly from the landing area of the fairway.  On approach shots at National you are very often hitting over some obstacle 20-40 yards short of the green.  For #2, this is true whether you are trying to drive the green, or you've played safely out to the right with an iron off the tee.

George_Bahto

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 09:35:08 AM »
Patrick: your descriptions about the various options of playing the hole is terrific - thanks.

BTW: I never have to worry aout finding my drive - it's always down in the deep hollow on the right - blind to the green!

three picture of interest:

the undulations of the green:



the drive as it looks today



the drive in 1910 - how great is that? and note the water tower before the windmill was built over it

If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

John Mayhugh

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2009, 09:58:17 AM »
George,
Talk about Sahara!  Great photo.  Absolutely nothing to guide your tee shot.


Bill_McBride

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2009, 10:02:27 AM »
For those who have played both, how similar is this to the prototype Sahara?  I think that's at RSG, right?  ??? ???

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2009, 10:06:42 AM »
I gotta ask:

In the photo above, (the shot today) the safe landing area has a gentle notch in it that delineates the line of play.  Original from CBM?

The bunker right of the green sits in a MUCH larger hollow.  Was that ever all bunker?

I noticed that there appears to be a water line from the windmill running in front of the bunker (to the clubhouse?) that has settled.  Isn't 100 years enough time to fix that? ;D

I also notice typical cart path wear in a few spots.  How many people take carts vs. walk at NGLA?

From the aerials, the first two holes appear similar in strategy. What sets them apart?

Thanks in advance.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

George_Bahto

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2009, 10:16:09 AM »

a bit of early information about this hole:

The 1910 article from Harpers Weekly states:

The second hole is modelled (his spelling) upon the famous ‘Sahara’ at Sandwich. Its official length is put down at 230 yards (today’s yardage is 300-yards), but it was originally intended for a one-shot hole (gb: that I dispute); according to the direction and strength of the wind, its playing distance may be anything between 210 and 250 yards. ........ it then goes on to detail the various options you face playing the hole, similar to what Pat has posted above.

This yardage of 230 is very interesting for it places the green ON THE TOP PLATEAU, SHORT OF THE PRESENT GREEN - not on today’s green. Karl Olsen and I often talked of the original 2nd green as including the plateau in front of the green as part of the original Macdonald thinking - this would include the steep fall down to the present green. That would be interesting!

This writer also lists the hole (230-yards) as a par-3 1/2 - interesting.

This article was written before CBM finalized the course to its opening day yardage.

Example: the article lists the 18th at 460, par-5 which positions the 18th green, one full green back from where it is today. Early drawing and the model of the course shows the 9th and 18th greens to be huge, front to back, encompassing both the early green locations and the present locations as one green.


More information along the same lines:

Southampton Magazine - Volume 1 Number 2 - dated Autumn 1912 - contains a detailed article about the National Golf Club (the original name - not the National Golf Links) - the article apparently written by the editor, one Charles A. Jaggar.

“The second hole is named Sahara, and is a modified reproduction of the famous hole by that name at Sandwich, although a more difficult one. The green is ridged and undulating and is built on two levels (there it is again “two levels” - isn’t that interesting!!). This hole, like the first, is also of the dog-leg or elbow order, requiring a drive to the right and a second shot is straight uphill, over a deep sand pit; the distance is 261-yards (again, not the 300 yards today)
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2009, 10:25:47 AM »
Jeff B: is this the "bunker" you're talking about?

This what you face of you are to the right of the green. It was eother a bunker or a dig for material for the green. There is thinking of making it into atrue bunker (whatever tht means - it is not sort of "informal"). It is very deep. Not long ago it was a mess of long grass and sandy areas.

Too bad those two small saving bunkers are there     :P

If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2009, 11:08:08 AM »
GB,

That is the one. It clearly looks dug out to build the green to me.  It also looks like a "natural" to have the sand all the way to the perimeter of the pit, or have no sand at all.

The puny little bunker in the middle of a big hole "makes no sense."  On the other hand, things that develop like that for no particular reason are part of the charm of older courses, as opposed to newer ones where everything looks designed.

As to the length change, I would guess that some of it came from extending the back tee.  And, in the aerial photo, is there just a little hint of the old green (perhaps some of the difference of topdrssing or other greens constructin) showing jp just in front of the existing green running from the knob back to the small bunker on the right? 

Perhaps the added length is a combo of the two, and the big hole was dug to extend the green back?

I really don't know. Just speculating.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 11:12:05 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Patrick_Mucci

Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2009, 12:59:31 PM »
Jeff,

An original tee on # 2 was part of the 1st green.

The likelihood is that it was moved for safety reasons as play increased, especially since that tee is totally blind from the righ side of the fairway on # 1.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2009, 01:10:43 PM »
I gotta ask:

In the photo above, (the shot today) the safe landing area has a gentle notch in it that delineates the line of play.  Original from CBM?

I don't believe that there's a gentle notch, or any other marker that would delineate the line of play.
The line of play is LEFT of that notch, where Don King's hair used to be.


The bunker right of the green sits in a MUCH larger hollow.  Was that ever all bunker?

There are a number of these areas.
There used to be one over on # 5 pre-Sebonack and one on the right of # 8.
My guess is that they served as quarries for dirt/sand as almost every green site is heavily constructed.
The views from the back of the greens gives the golfer a better idea of the extent of the construction, whereas, from the golfer's eye, it's hardly noticed.


I noticed that there appears to be a water line from the windmill running in front of the bunker (to the clubhouse?) that has settled.  Isn't 100 years enough time to fix that? ;D

I think you're imagining things.
The clubhouse is far to the right of the tee.


I also notice typical cart path wear in a few spots.  How many people take carts vs. walk at NGLA?


It's dependent upon the number of available caddies on a given day.
When school is out, the caddy ranks swell.


From the aerials, the first two holes appear similar in strategy. What sets them apart?


LIGHT YEARS.

They bear NO similarity in play.


Thanks in advance.

You're welcome in return.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2009, 01:16:00 PM »
Kelly,

I agree.

I think the variety enhances the suspense as the golfer hikes up the hill to see and await his fate after hitting his drive.

There's something neat about finding your ball in the fairway or on the green when you thought a worse fate lay ahead.

Conversely, after hitting a good drive, the wind goes quickly out of your sails when you see that your ball either didn't clear the ridge, or, it bounded left or right into one of the flanking bowls, or worse yet, that it hurdled down and over the green.

I also like the variety presented in the approach shot when the golfer has missed his mark off the tee.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2009, 03:39:22 PM »
Patrick notes that almost everyone tries to drive the green on #2.  That sure seems to me to be the best option since I don't really see a good spot to lay up that offers an inviting approach.  You don't gain much in the way of security by taking a conservative route.  In that respect (and no other), it seems similar to #1.  While I love both #1 and #2, this leads me to a question:  Is it important that BOTH risk and reward increase for aggressive play or is it ok for aggressive play to have the potential for reward without any material increase in risk?

Patrick, one suggestion; if you are going to do separate threads for on each hole, then you might also want to have one thread which links them all together.   That would certainly help those searching in the future.  And the consolidated thread could be posted on delicious.com.

Ed

George_Bahto

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Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2009, 05:00:55 PM »
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

TEPaul

Re: # 2 on the Enchanted Journey
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2009, 06:51:27 PM »
George:

I've felt for some years the original green on this hole was app. 40-60 yards shorter and in front of the present green. There's an old photo of the original 2nd green that I believe has been on this website in the past (and it's in the clubhouse and I think in an article) that appears to show that last bunker on the left ( the one that's sort of behind the windmill in the above aerial) as a front left greenside bunker.

Macdonald did say he moved a few greens at NGLA and I think it's pretty obvious this was one. It appears the 17th was another.

By the way, that topography in that area where the original green seems to have been would make for a two level green BEFORE the dropdown onto the present green.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 06:54:07 PM by TEPaul »

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