For the supers - course detailing

[Lyne Morrison]

While out on the course yesterday the inevitable opinions came forth in my group about course 'housekeeping' - the small details that members notice but which on occasion apparently slip off the radar of the ground staff...replacing flags or towels on ball washers when needed rather than when scheduled, attending to dripping taps, edging around catch basins, straightening stakes on trees, general tidying up etc...

This is a private course with a large staff (in excess of 20) but the smaller details continue to be missed. How are gca supers motivating their staff towards being mindful of course detail?

Cheers - Lyne

[Mat Dunmyer]

Making sure assistants are held accountable for follow up- super needs to be out amongst staff to ensure things aren't being missed. I personally walk the course 2-3 days per week in the mornings when we are open. Driving around in a cart using your 20/20 vision (20 mph from 20 yards away- not gonna see much) does not accomplish this.

Mat

[Chris Cupit]

My pet peeve is trash on the course.  I do not understand how you can drive by and see a cup or candy wrapper and not pick it up.  I also understand that when golfers pay good money and the staff seems more than adequate these details when unattended are annoying.

Lots of stuff at many courses is a matter of manpower and budget.  I know this seems stupid--how much longer can it take to bend over and pick something up or tidy up.  I will say at a busy club it can literally be a race to get out in front of play.  The staff begins in the dark with lighted mowers, times it right at 7:00 AM before firing up blowers and it is a tightly timed ballet to get everyone back to the shop before the golfers make it impossible to get back out there.

We try and reward the crew with a coke/candy fund that goes towards cook outs, special recognitions, cash, sporting tickets--anything to reward a job well done.  Like many we have a crew with a lot of hispanic guys on it who themselves are not golfers or were not when they joined us.  One of the best things we did was to try and get them to play a little.  We had the pro come and explain the game, had them take some rudimentary lessons and when possible had them play on our closed day.

If you are not a golfer you cannot understand why they are so picky.  Once you have seen a putt deflected by sand on the green where some idiot didn't knock off his shoes after a bunker shot, or you see a shot deflected by a rake or whatever and it hurts your score, you see how every little thing matters even better.

Also as management I tried to avoid having too man areas that were "hard" to maintain because they were prone to a lot of nitpicking.  Ball washers are frequent targets--water and soap need changing out a lot in the summer, towels need replacing all the time, people run into them and knock them over more than you would think.  Personally I have never used a ball washer and just don't "get them".  I mean, how many golfers actually putt with a dirty golf ball?  Assuming golfers (or at least 99%) clean their ball before putting how dirty can it possibly get between the green and next tee?  Shouldn't ball washers be around the green then instead of the tee--the green is the only location where you are allowed to clean your ball during the hole anyway.  I really don't see the need for ball washers??

Long story short we have a ball washer on #1 and #10

I agree with Mat that racing around the course makes it very easy to miss a lot of stuff.  Supers and assistants who play and walk the course (and a crew that will play) have a much better chance of looking through a golfer's eyes.

[Bryan Bergner]

I agree with Matt for the most part.  It all comes down to how the crew is trained and how they are held accountable.  Hiring the right people and showing them respect for hard, productive, detailed work is key to developing a team that wants to produce the best product possible.  At our club, all managers lead by example and expect high standards.  We train our crew members to do just the same.  It creates a sense of ownership.

Bryan Bergner

[Don_Mahaffey]

I don’t know if it’s motivation as much as it is management.  People always need to know what is expected of them and they need the time and training to do the job. You don’t expect someone to drive by a ball washer, notice a shredded towel and then go get one and change it out, you make it someone’s job to keep them in order. You want everyone working together and if they see something out of place I hope they will let me know. But I don’t want my greens mower stopping to repair a ball washer or dump a trash can.
When I worked at courses where we had to worry about extreme detail, I had one or two guys cutting cups, moving tee markers and generally tending to setting up the course, and one or two folks doing what we called tee service. Tee service consisted of dressing tee divots, checking ball washers, bathrooms, emptying trash, sweeping off cart paths…you get the picture. It was usually a job that took about 4 hours per 9 holes if everything was expected to be perfect. I think the supt and assistants should notice anything out of place, but having someone responsible for the daily tasks of keeping everything clean and neat is the way to get it done.

[JSPayne]

I agree with most all postings so far. The key is that the crew has had it specifically expressed to them what the standard of maintenance is....and then held to it, with appropriate repercussions for not doing a job completely and rewards for going above and beyond.

At my course, we're only a crew of 10 (that includes me, the assistant and no mechanic....) but I've gone through the SOP (Standard Operating Practices/Procedures) for course set-up, and my guys know exactly what I expect from them. But I also try to keep the expectations realistic. If there's a big shot-gun and we're in a hurry, I don't hold them to moving every set of tee markers, maybe just the ones being used that day. I also make sure I don't ever hurry them, because when they think they've got to fly around and hurry to get started on their second job, that is when they leave out all the detail inspection and repair.

Also, and I've just started doing this, I've created a simple little scorecard, that I take with me when I check the course. I've told my guys I'll only do it maybe once a week, but they won't know what day. I evaluate: difficulty of pin position and distrubution (3 easy, 3 medium, 3 hard per 9, also 3 front, 3 middle, 3 back), making sure all trash is picked up, making sure all ropes and stakes are vertical and in the right areas, making sure sand & seed boxes on par 3s are filled and making sure their areas in general are clean and free of debris. It's an easy quick check to do, even when I don't have much time, and my guys get immediate feedback at the end of the day and rewards or stern repremand for how they grade on the card. Plus, having the day of evaluation be a surprise always keeps them on their toes and motivated to mind the details every day.

Neglecting the details is always either a factor of laziness or being rushed and not having enough time. Either way, it's up to management to correct. But it's also up to the membership/patrons to have an understanding about the appropriate level of "attention to detail" that is to be expected given the crew size, budget and time constrictions.

A good sign about complaints regarding "attention to detail," is that they rarely occur unless the rest of the course is in top-form already. Seems that unmowed rough, bumpy greens, and bunkers without sand complaints always triumph over the stray piece of trash here and there.

[Charlie Goerges]

I couldn't agree with you more Don. I mean no offense to anyone else's way of doing it, I'm sure every method can work. I just think that expecting people to go the extra mile, and then holding them accountable for going the extra mile sounds like a black hole. If a task is not enumerated, how can it be prioritized. Every task can't be everyone's top priority.

[Pat Burke]

Good training, good leadership.  My  stepdad, I consider one of the best (I AM Biased).  He not only ran the course every morning (triathlete), but on the days he did not run, he likely played at least nine, and he was a good enough player to win a 36 hole mini tour event at 48 years old.
Every trip around the course, brought with it the inevitable notes when he noticed anything needing attention.  I was always amazed at the things he saw that I never would have.
The staff, as many have mentioned, was always well trained to complete their assignments each day, but also knew that the boss would be around the course numerous times during the day, which created great accountability.

[Lyne Morrison]

First up I have to say that it is very good to have supers on this site who are happy to share their thoughts, so thank you all - golf doesn't happen without you.

A couple of additional questions if I could -

Something that has been mentioned by our super in recent times is the changed work ethic of the younger guys (or at least the perception of such), that is - it is difficult to hire them, difficult to keep them, that they are not keen for early starts, not keen to work, feel they can make more money packing supermarket shelves and then get to sleep in also. I guess this says more about the individual values of these particular fellows - but do any of you see this happening where you are?

You all spoke of how critical good management is - I have a sense that somehow the small things tend to be overtaken by larger activities. Don - I've often thought that a detail roster would assist - how often would you program your tee service, 2 - 3 times a week? dependant upon expectations and seasonal influences no doubt - autumn, storm litter etc

And what was the consensus on incentives? Worthwhile? The cost of living is up here, the younger fellows might respond to this - or is it better to get on with the job with rostered duties?

Thanks again for the feedback

Cheers -- Lyne

[corey miller]

Lyne

I am not a Super but am involved on a greens committee.  I hear the same complaint from our Super from time to time and frankly I am not sure i believe it.

I have a hard time believing guys that sometimes risk all coming to this country for a better life for their families have any problem working hard.  I do believe they could be better trained from time to time.

Who is responsible for a shrunken green over the course of a year?  The Superintendent or the guy cutting the greens?

[James Bennett]

Who is responsible for a shrunken green over the course of a year?  The Superintendent or the guy cutting the greens?

Given that the green is probably being cut in minimal light, I wouldn't blame the guy cutting the green especially if using a triplex.  I would prefer to see someone have a role periodically with a handmower doing a single cut on the green extremity.  I don't know if this is weekly, fortnightly or monthly - perhaps it depends on the member expectations/maintenance budget.  I'd like weekly.

James B

[Mike_Young]

In the late 70's when I first got n this business a supt once told me that if two good supts were to swap golf courses...both courses would become better and if they swapped back....both would become better also.....for a while I did not comprehend what he was saying .....but.....he was right....most supts that work for private clubs work for people that depend on them for answers and results......if a membership comes to be complacent and is satisfied and appreciates their supt...then there is not much reason to mess with a good thing....attention to detail is an everchanging thing that is not noticed or appreciated by a membership until it goes away or until they see it somewhere else.....the really good supts stay ahead of this curve.....more than any one thing they do...IMHO....

[Joe Hancock]

When I was a super in NC, a friend of mine and I would examine each others courses in a very open, honest way to help each other do the best work possible. It was always interesting to me what one person could see that another person could be oblivious to.

No need to go it alone.

Joe

[Don_Mahaffey]

Lynn - tee service is daily. 7 days a week, lighter on Sat & Sun, but still done. A dry ballwasher on sat or a dirty restroom on sun is never a good thing. Most supts have to spend stupid amounts of time on things that have nothing to do with the game of golf. That's just the job and fighting it is a losing battle.

Mike Y - exactly right. Most of us who last have a good eye, but keeping it fresh is the hard part.

Joe - best consultant I ever had was my brother. He called it exactly like it was because he wasn't afraid to get fired. Finding someone without some sort of agenda isn't easy.   

[Bradley Anderson]

I'm going to hijack this thread by introducing another topic.

It is hard to be an active superintendent contributer on GCA because you never know when you might be thowing something out there that could be hurtful or unfair to a fellow superintendent. Sometimes I think I should walk away from this site altogether because of that, but I'm an addict. 

I don't know if the person who started this thread is communicating with his superintendent. Nor do I know all of the circumstances that the superintendent of this course is dealing with: is he taking on a lot of projects in-house, does he have an outdated irrigation system, is he working with a union? I could go on and on with these kinds of variables so there is no compelling reason for me to entertain a rebuttal to the few that I have posited here. I just don't know this guy's circumstances, and I never will until I walk in his shoes.

I mentored under one of the best gentleman superintendents in the country, and one time he and I were coming home from playing a course together, when I began to make critical statements about the course. He stopped me and told me that no one benefits from that. He was right.

Superintendents need to be mindful of this whenever we post here. I don't mean to preach but I firmly believe that.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off with this.



 

[JSPayne]

Bradley,

I'm personally not offended at all, but you bring up an important issue.

Communication between the superintendent and membership is key. And really, that is the sheer beauty of superintendents posting to this site, even if it is a super from a course on the East Coast talking to a member overseas. I think most superintendents who are involved here understand and are respectful of the jobs of our fellow supers, and we all know what kind of stress, toils and issues pop up from time to time, but we all also like to take ownership of the maintenance industry as a whole. And we can only better our image and golfer understanding by openly discussing and educating on the topics that will make us better, perhaps like "firmer and faster" conditions, less total inputs, labor savings ideas, effective time management strategies, etc. etc.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a member/patron of my course asking another super about something he's seen while playing my course. BUT....this is because I go out of my way to make sure my patrons know that I can be easily approached, and am readily available to answer questions. So a golfer can go ask another super, or non-super, get information, then come back to me and say "Hey, I heard it's possible to do this and that.....why don't we try that out here?" Sometimes, it's a decent idea, and the perspective from the outside is what we both needed to find a way to take our course to the next level. Other times, it's the PERFECT opportunity for me to clue the golfer in on the differences between our course, and our operating budget, crew size, site limitations, etc. and perhaps those of the course where he got his information.

Often times I find that if I get too many compliments, especially on things I know aren't great, it either means (1) the golfers are indeed getting complacent with the course and conditions, which is not good for anyone in this competitive environment or (2) the golfer hasn't really gotten out to see any other courses recently and merely judges what he sees daily against the other days he plays at the same course. Sometimes I fall into this trap too, and feel like we are looking/playing pretty dang good, then I go to play at the course next door, and realize we could still stand to take it up a notch. Likewise, there are times, especially during this winter off-season, when I may feel like we don't look so hot, but I go across town and see what some other courses are dealing with and realize that we're doing a pretty good job considering the time of year and weather.

All in all, I would just say that I agree with you to some extent Bradley, that supers posting to this site should be mindful to keep their tips, advice and recommendations based strictly on their site (because what works for them may not work for someone else) or keep them VERY general, such that the general idea and concept can be used almost anywhere.

I think this thread is sticking to that right now......it seems most recommendations for attention to detail are good training/management oversight and, if possible within a higher budget, more labor/time dedicated specifically to this task.

[Ray Richard]

I concur with the previous posts about assigning one or two individuals with housekeeping responsibilities. I had success with two retired individuals who were tuned into the details. After I spent a few hours training them about the nuances of ball-washer soap etc., they worked with minor tweaking afterward. It’s nice to go to a green committee meeting and not have a discussion about cigar wrappers.

Leaves in the Northeast are a big, overblown issue (pardon pun). I see supers in November (when few are playing the course) in deep trouble because of an isolated pocket of leaves or a stray limb. Leaf management becomes a big issue because end-of-season evaluations are based on current observations.

Leaves are part of the late-season aesthetic in the Northeast. A few scattered around a golf course should be tolerated.

[Chris Tritabaugh]

Much like DonM we perform "tee service" 7 days a week on our course. And I would agree that we have had success in making details a part of the various task performed each day. Like others have said, expecting employees to go out of their way to take care of the details is much more difficult and inefficient than simply including details as a part of daily tasks. We eliminated seed and soil buckets for the same reason an earlier poster eliminated ballwashers. The advantage of seed and soil buckets did not out weigh the potential complaints/make us look bad situations they seem generate. I wish we could eliminate ballwashers but I have a feeling it would cause great consternation amongst the fairer sex.

To comment on Bradley's subject. I would also agree that posting as a Superintendent on this site is a slippery slope. I would feel terrible if I knew that something I had posted lead to the demise or even difficultly for a fellow Superintendent. I was once contacted by a member of this site regarding information I posted. I told the member I was more than willing to help but that I would prefer to relay the info directly to his Superintendent. The Superintendent contacted me and appreciated the fact I had taken the stance I did. As a Superintendent I would ask any of the members of this site to relay info you find from the Superintendents here in the same manner.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I concur with the previous posts about assigning one or two individuals with housekeeping responsibilities. I had success with two retired individuals who were tuned into the details. After I spent a few hours training them about the nuances of ball-washer soap etc., they worked with minor tweaking afterward. It’s nice to go to a green committee meeting and not have a discussion about cigar wrappers.

Leaves in the Northeast are a big, overblown issue (pardon pun). I see supers in November (when few are playing the course) in deep trouble because of an isolated pocket of leaves or a stray limb. Leaf management becomes a big issue because end-of-season evaluations are based on current observations.

Leaves are part of the late-season aesthetic in the Northeast. A few scattered around a golf course should be tolerated.

  Ray,
  Have you ever thought that in November, 95% of the leaves have fallen and so the superintendent and his crew no longer have to spend all day just trying to keep leaves off of the playing surfaces? When I worked in Michigan and having a father that still does, Novmeber is the perfect time to FINALLY got to all those corners of the property that leaves were blown to. All the time spent trying to keep the playing surfaces clean may not have allowed time to pick up leaves that accumulated in pockets.
  I think that "end of the season' evaluations have NOTHING to do with removing leaves in isolated pockets.-maybe just a prideful superintendent who wants to keep the course clean.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Lyne Morrison]

Thanks all - some very sound feedback.

I find course maintenance interesting - I also know that Supers typically have a lot going on. At the same time most outsiders have a poor understanding of the pressures that go with your job. I'm looking to the supers on this site for feedback that will aid in an improved understanding of your side of the operation. When handled well that has to be good for all of us.

Bradley you raise a fair point, JSP and Chris I think you rounded it out very well.

Cheers -- Lyne

[Bryan Bergner]

Tony,

I understand what you're saying but to say that it's a PERFECT time to do anything on a course other then your own course is a bit strong. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony,

I understand what you're saying but to say that it's a PERFECT time to do anything on a course other then your own course is a bit strong. 

  Bryan,
  Think about it-November is a great time to get alot of those types of things done-You're not having to worry about tremendous amounts of play and the grass has slowed down to the point where you do not have to mow nearly as frequent. This allows efficiet time for drainage work, spraying for snow mold, blowing out the irrigation system, drainage work, leave removal, etc...The weather is still fair enough to be outside, yet the golf course doesnt experience much play so you can be efficient. November is a great time on a golf course to complete tasks and prepare it for winter.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Ray Richard]

Anthony,

  I agree with your seasonal leave management thoughts.

  I was referring to a super I know at a top club who was hammered and micromanaged by his green committee over his leaf program. I couldn't see more than a truckload of leaves over 150 acres, and he was getting the heat. He dedicates three weeks and hundreds of man-hours to leaf control, and a few leaves started a club discussion. My point is; if you play late-November golf, put up with a few leaves.
 
  This club traditionally performs an end-of-year evaluation before everyone heads to Florida. It's an open assessment of a years worth of turf management, the problem is they forget the fine turf delivered throughout the long summer.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Anthony,

  I agree with your seasonal leave management thoughts.

  I was referring to a super I know at a top club who was hammered and micromanaged by his green committee over his leaf program. I couldn't see more than a truckload of leaves over 150 acres, and he was getting the heat. He dedicates three weeks and hundreds of man-hours to leaf control, and a few leaves started a club discussion. My point is; if you play late-November golf, put up with a few leaves.
 
  This club traditionally performs an end-of-year evaluation before everyone heads to Florida. It's an open assessment of a years worth of turf management, the problem is they forget the fine turf delivered throughout the long summer.

Got cha! My opinion of late season golf is that EVERYONE should just be happy to be out there playing! Especially those who have to endure several months of snow cover!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Jerry Kluger]

It seems to me that golfers are so preoccupied with green speeds that it doesn't allow the super to be as attendant to details as he would like.  Members must also understand that the superintendent is a professional and you must presume that he is knowledgeable - which means you as a member should ask questions and make suggestions, but realize that the super is the one who should make the final decision.  If you do not have the confidence in your super then either you should try to have him replaced or make your suggestions to the greens committee not the super.