NY Times - Bethpage - Son Claims His Father Design

[Mike_Sweeney]

The following article appeared in today's NY Times

By CLIFTON BROWN
 
Joe Burbeck believes that an important part of golf history should be corrected.

For more than 65 years, A. W. Tillinghast has been recognized as the designer of the storied Black Course at Bethpage State Park on Long Island. But Burbeck disputes Tillinghast's involvement. Burbeck insists that Bethpage Black, site of next month's United States Open, was designed by his father, Joseph H. Burbeck, who was the park's superintendent for more than 30 years.

Burbeck's quest to gain recognition for his father is the subject of an article that is to appear in the June issue of Golf Digest. Now 71 years old and living in Rye, N.Y., Burbeck has spent much of his adult life waging a campaign on behalf of his father, who died in 1987. His story has often been ignored. But Golf Digest is convinced that Burbeck is correct, so convinced that it will list his father as the architect of Bethpage Black; Tillinghast will be listed as a consultant.

With the Open coming to Bethpage Black on June 13-16, Burbeck has never felt more strongly about fighting for his father's legacy.

"Ever since they decided to bring the Open to Bethpage, I've been hearing Tillinghast's name all over the place, and it just isn't fair," Burbeck said last week. "It's one of the best golf courses in the world, and there's no question my father designed it."

Tillinghast didn't design Bethpage? The suggestion sounds unbelievable to some, and Burbeck knows he will never convince everyone. Tillinghast was one of golf's most fabled architects, the designer of exquisite courses like Winged Foot and Quaker Ridge in New York and Baltusrol and Ridgewood in New Jersey.

Rees Jones, a renowned architect who restored Bethpage Black to prepare it for the Open, believes Bethpage is Tillinghast's work.

"Tillinghast did the design and the routing," Jones said last week. "He may not have been on site to see the project finished, but that doesn't mean he isn't the designer. Alister Mackenzie may not have been on site to see every step of Augusta National's construction either, but that doesn't mean it wasn't his design.

"But the hard part about golf history is that a lot of it gets lost. It's not as easy to trace something from that era as it would be today."

Is there evidence to support Burbeck's claim? The magazine article, written by Ron Whitten, points to "History of the Long Island State Parks," published in 1959, which credits Burbeck with the design and construction of the golf courses at Bethpage, and lists Tillinghast as the consultant.

By the time Bethpage Black opened in 1936, Tillinghast had fallen on hard times, fighting drinking problems and financial woes. The Bethpage golf course project was spearheaded by Robert Moses, a builder of many of the region's roads and other infrastructure and a former president of the Long Island State Park Commission. But not everyone supported the effort to build golf courses during the Depression, and Burbeck said Tillinghast was given credit for Bethpage to protect the project from being criticized.

"Moses got cold feet because a no-name was the designer," Burbeck said. "They figured they needed a known quantity like Tillinghast to have his name on the project, just in case the public didn't like it."

Burbeck grew up at Bethpage in a house that still stands near the 14th hole of the Black Course. He remembers sitting at his father's knee, watching him work on design plans.

"Those weren't Tillinghast's plans, those were my father's plans," Burbeck said. "He loved Bethpage, and he knew every inch of the land. It was a great place to grow up, a great place to live. But my mother always felt bad that my father never got the proper credit."

Burbeck's mother, Elizabeth, is deceased. The original blueprints for the course have not been uncovered, and Burbeck knows it is not easy to rewrite history. Yet he feels obligated to try.

Asked if he would attend the Open this year, Burbeck said: "I don't have any tickets. I'm hoping to get some. I feel like I should be there to represent the family."

[Scott_Burroughs]

Calling Rick Wolffe.....

Perhaps someone should give him a shout, if he doesn't know about it already.


EDIT: I e-mailed him.

[Tony Ristola]

I just wonder how much of this will be going on in 25 years?

Also, if Mr. Burbeck is given design credit in the future... how many notches will this will drop the golf course in future rankings.  

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I do agree that Burbeck has not been given his due over the years, no fault of Tillinghasts because he certainly acknowledged the man and always referred to himself as a consultant. What he considered a consultant I don't know, perhaps the fact he was not actively involved in the construction.

I doubt that Moses got cold feet because there was a 'no name' involved. Moses was the most powerful man in NY and didn't really worry much about anyone's opinion, including the Gov. or Mayor. He was not an elected official and pissed off many. If I'm not mistaken he didn't play golf either, and therefore wouldn't know much about names anyway.

I'd be interested to know Burbeck's background, I'm always a little suspect stories regarding amateur architects - there is usually more to the story. My impression has always been that Tillinghast and Burbeck designed the course and Burbeck constructed it. The fact that there are no blue prints I think hurts Burbeck's claim as the primary designer. If he was there for decades, you would have thought he would have saved his plans, especially if he was upset with not getting his proper credit.

I don't think it is necessarily a fair characterization to say in 1936 that Tillinghast was marred by financial problems and drinking woes. Wasn't everyone in the golf architecture profession hurt by financial problems due to the Depression (and golf architects weren't the only ones). And since when have drinking problems been a negative? That seemed to be a common trait among many of that era - in good or bad times. And wasn't the reason he didn't see the completed course a new job with the PGA as an architectural consultant. They had no problem hiring him as their representative, who would meet with many of their member clubs throughout the country.

[Rick Wolffe]

The historical record is irrefutable.  Tillie was the architect and Burdeck was the engineer and constructor.  As such, universally accepted convention is to credit Tillie as the Architect and Burdeck as the engineer and constructor.  I think all Golf Architects would take significant exception if we were to credit their design work to the professionals that engineered and built the courses.  Although we sure can sell magazines if we stir up controversy.
That being said.  I think Burdeck should be given his due.  As he Tillie did back in 1936, when he wrote,  "It was my very good fortune to be selected by the Commission as its consultant course architect to aid its engineering force in the development of these courses, and let me say right here that never have I received heartier support and cooperation than from Joe Burbeck, the state engineer, who was in daily direction of the entire work from the start to its finish."

I am sure that many golf architects can give examples of how their design plans were butchered by the constructors.

[corey miller]

I have a tough time believing as a four year old that Mr. Burbeck remembers sitting at his fathers knee watching him design this course.

[Matt_Ward]

RW: Many thanks for your timely reply.

This thread begs the question in a number of related ways. Who should get credit in designing a course for a large firm? Many times the associate is really the person responsible for the day-to-day designing. The lead figure may "just" come in for a quick peak or some minor modifications -- ala Tom Fazio, Jack Nicklaus, etc, etc.

I think of the work Roger Rulewich did at Metedeconk National (NJ) and the course is credited to Robert Trent Jones. In real terms, Roger did much of the heavy lifting -- ditto the Alabama Golf Trail. I can also recall a major discussion taking place with Arcadia Bluffs (MI) and the issue of who should be credited between Rick Smith and Warren Henderson. I'm sure the same can be said for many Donald Ross courses that Donald may have designed from a remote office but never really got to the site and left the rest to others to put into motion.

I've played the Black well over 100 times in my lifetime and I always believed that the actual greens were far less than what Tillie ever did with previous efforts such as WF, Baltusrol, SH, SF, QR, etc. Was Tillie really there to oversee their preparation -- it seems unlikely but I can't say for sure. Can anyone?

It appears to me Tillie may have done the plans but the work was carried out by others. The burden of proof rests with Mr. Burdeck to demonstrate his father actually designed the holes in question. I will read the June issue of GD with much interest.

[Jamie_Duffner]

Matt,

Some very good points.  Having also played the Black over 100 times, I would concur, the routing is pure Tillie.  The angles, the bunkering, the strategy is classic Tillie.  Tillie alludes to the routing in much of his writing, with some very detailed writing in particular on the 4th hole.  The greens are probably not Tillie, he probably did the routing, but did not stick around for the construction and subsequent shaping of the greens.  Thus the stark contrast to toher notable Tillinghast courses.  Mr. Burbeck may consider the construction phase as deserving of credit for the design pahse, two distinctly different things.  Nonetheless, Burbeck clearly deserves credit.  He probably tweeked a bit and was responsible for green contouring.  But, I'm not sure the routing would have been his creation.  There are too many routing elements that reek of Tillie.

I've always felt Whitten has been on a quest to discredit Tillie's involvement with the Black.  Not sure why, it could be my misinterpretation.

[TEPaul]

Maybe Mr. Burbeck has never been completely sure what the distinctions are between what an architect does and what an "engineer" or "construction man" does. Maybe he's still not sure. Maybe he thinks that because his father might have "built" the course that he must be the architect too. Maybe Mr. Burbeck should come on Golfclubatlas with Ron Whitten.

It seems a bit illogical to assume that a state engineer that had never done a golf course could have or would have "designed" a golf course as reputable architecturally as the Black is! Even an amateur although a clearly latent talent like Crump needed about five solid years on site daily to "design" his one and only course.

Plus, although Tillinghast was a bit of an eccentric in some ways he did know a ton of people in the game on all levels and I can't really see him taking create for something he had very little to do with and in effect lying about it! Even if he wanted to that seems either implausible or impossible under the circumstances!

Burbeck as the "designer" doesn't make much sense. It's much more logical to assume that what Mr Burbeck's father did might have been a lot because being the "engineer" on Bethpage Black and maybe the other ones really is doing a lot although it might not have anything to do with actually designing the golf course!

[Jamie_Duffner]

TEPaul,

To further your point, doesn't Burbeck want credit for more than just the Black at Bethpage?  Doesn't that seal the debate?  I suppose we should also wipe Tillie, Flynn, Emmet, and few others whose names escape me off the design credit for the Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow?!?!

Again, I think Burbeck's debate has flawed logic as you suggest.  If he was involved with all the courses construction, which I think is impossible since the timeline between the first and last course being built is fairly long,  that does not mean he designed them!

[WilliamWang]

jamie duffner-

isn't alfred tull credited with bethpage yellow?

will

[Jamie_Duffner]

William - he's part of the "and a few others whose names escape me" reference.   A lot of interesting people left their mark on the five courses at Bethpage.

[TEPaul]

Matt:

It seems like those that work for architectural firms whether it be Hatch for Ross, Rulewich for Nicklaus or Marzolf for Fazio are in another position to sub or actually do for the architect of record than Burbeck ever would have been for Tillinghast!

I don't know Bethpage very well but the fact that the greens are mundane might say a lot about how Bethpage evolved during construction, but even that is not a reason to believe that Tillinghast did not design the course.

What about the stories I've always heard that Tillinghast got increasingly frustrated with some of the NY state or Federal Depression era work crews and may have left the project prematurely? If that's true why would Tillinghast get inceasingly frustrated with a project he had no real design stake in in the first place.

Again, Mr. Burbeck obviously saw his father do a lot of work but possibly then and now has no real idea of  the differences and distinctions between "design" and "engineering and "construction" work. Sure he saw his Dad pouring over blueprints and such--but that doesn't mean they were Burbeck's father's blueprints--not unless little Burbeck remembers his Dad spending loads of time drawing them too!

[Brad Klein]

Tony, why would questioning Tillinghast's role in Bethpage Black have any effect on course ratings? I hope you don't think people evaluate a course solely on the basis of who designed it.

As a number of people here have noticed, there's a serious issue as to who gets the real credit when a designer makes a few or one cursory visit while an associate does the real work. I think that all along, architects usually get too much credit while builders and field hands don't get enough. I'm not saying MacKenzie doesn't deserve credit for a job - it depends on how much he did and how crucial his routing was to the final product. But I know of big name designers today who might show up once during routing approval, then get lost on the way from the airport on opening day - and they seem to get (and expect) full credit.

My point is it varies a lot from case to case.

Finally, this wouldn't also have something to do with a media outlet looking to stir up the pot and generate publicity for itself, would it? Do I think Whitten invented this for that purpose? Absolutely not! He has far too much integrity. But the magazine might be encouraging this in order to be the centerpiece of conversation a month from now on Long Island. And it will be.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

"I hope you don't think people evaluate a course solely on the basis of who designed it."

Brad

You forgot to append your smiley face!

[Hoya]

Look at Golfdigest.com.  They also run a story claming that Tillie had very little to do with the design and construction of any of the courses at Bethpage.  The editors conclude the story by saying that in their future listings they will list Joe Burbeck as the architect and A.W. Tillinghast as a consultant.  How do ya like that?

[Hoya]

Look at Golfdigest.com.  They also run a story claming that Tillie had very little to do with the design and construction of any of the courses at Bethpage.  The editors conclude the story by saying that in their future listings they will list Joe Burbeck as the architect and A.W. Tillinghast as a consultant.  How do ya like that?

[THuckaby2]

Here's the exact link:

http://www.golfdigest.com/majors/usopen/index.ssf?/majors/usopen/gd200206whitten.html

Seems pretty convincing to me.  

TH

[Jamie_Duffner]

Whitten certainly takes quite a leap in his piece.  From all the facts presented, it only makes it more confusing as to who exactly did the routing.  Certainly Burbeck built it, there seems to be little doubt about that point.  Burbeck is responsible for the green construction.  But who walked the property and routed the holes?  The article makes no definitive reference to this point.  Mac only did a quick walk through at Royal Melbourne.  Could Tillie have done a similar routing at Bethpage?  The Burbeck's may not say the name Tillinghast in their house, and that is understandable sine Burbeck poored a lot of sweat equity into the Black.  But, the design and routing are critical elements to the Black and I'd like to know who did it!

I think GD and Whitten are making a mistake by arbitrarily naming Burbeck the architect and Tillie the consultant.  

And more point, who here thinks Tillie didn't have a style!?!?  Is that just Whitten trying to bolster his argument?  The angles and strategy of Black are strikingly similar to Winged Foot.  Diagonal carries, deceptive bunkering (i.e. bunkers 40 yards short of a green), the par five 4th is practically right out of Tillie's memoirs.  I suppose Burbeck accidentally did that!

[THuckaby2]

Jamie:  I have absolutely no axe to grind here, I've never been to Bethpage and the only Tillie course I've played is San Francisco and I know next to nothing about any of this.

That being said, it seems to me we can all debate re Tillie's style, who did the routing, etc.  But how do you respond to:

"It's in the official history of the Long Island State Parks, published in 1959. "The four golf courses constructed as work-relief projects were designed and constructed under the direction of Joseph H. Burbeck, the Superintendent of the park," the book reads, "with A.W. Tillinghast, internationally known golf architect, as consultant." "

Are you saying the 1959 history is wrong?

TH

[Jamie_Duffner]

Tom,

I'm not saying that at all.  I'm asking who did the routing?  It would have been very easy for Tillinghast to work his fifteen days and in that time, lead Burbreck around the property and lay out tees, fariways, hazards and holes, complete with the strategy intent.  Then Tillie takes off, Burbeck builds the course.  The 1959 plans are only one source of info.  There are countless other sources which talk about Tillie's involvement as being more than a consultant.  Like I described above, the 4th hole is straight out of Tillie's memoirs.  I think its awfully coincidental that common strategy themes seen in several of Tillies' courses are repeated at Bethpage, but he had no hand in the routing!  Burbeck sounds like a very talented man, but the genius of the Black is the tee to green game and I am a bit skeptical that he routed the course by himself.

I am sure Burbeck deserves a lot more credit than he has received, but to call him the architect is a bit presumptuous until a definitive answer on who did the routing is found.

Perhaps the Tillinghast Society folks have some info.

[THuckaby2]

Aha!  Thanks, Jamie.  That did sound a little too cut and dried to me - but you gotta admit though that the statement in the official 1959 history is powerful.

TH

[Jamie_Duffner]

Tom,

The 4th hole at Bethpage is rather famous and in about 5 weeks, it will become world reknown.  Take a look at the two design sketches, "the three shotter" and "the double dogleg" at the link below and tell me in about 6 weeks if you think Burbeck designed the hole.

http://www.tillinghast.net/toc.htm

Take a look at Atlantic Beach #16 at the Tillie site as well.  Looks a lot like the par five 13th at Bethpage.

Take a look at the Wernersville (Galen Hall) at the Tillie site, looks a lot like the 6th at Bethpage with the only difference is the 6th at Bethpage is a dogleg left.

I think Burbeck and Whitten need a little clarification on "desgin", "built", and "consultant."



 

[THuckaby2]

Jamie:  I'd venture to say #4 is word-reknown NOW.  But yes, after the Open, more people will see its greatness, and much more at the Black.

And these comparisons speak loudly also - I'm not debating this at all, just trying to clarify things for my own edification.

But yes, the crux of the whole matter is indeed how to define the terms you list.  My only sticking point here is that yes,  Burbeck and Whitten may have "problems" with these in this context, but if this really went as you say (which seems reasonable), then the one really at fault is the 1959 history writer.

Thanks!

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Rock Wolfe -- where art thou?

It would be most interesting for RW to comment after he's had an opportunity to read the golfdigest.com article on the subject at hand. The Digest is taking a very clear position on who actually designed the course. The consultant tag (can someone define that role?) is still in my mind unclear given what I have written previously on this thread on who should get credit for a particular layout.

Someone needs to explain to me the definition of architect / designer versus that of  builder. The Whitten article does not say anything about who actually designed the course ... it does lay out a quote from Tillie speaking to his disdain for WPA type projects. Does that automatically mean that Tillie had no involvement or is it simply because he was not there at crucial times and, in his mind, could have done even better work than what was completed?

All I can say is if you follow the logic of the Burbeck matter for Tillie you must do the same for other old time architects - you can start with Donald Ross because it's hard to fathom how Donald was able to travel to all parts of the country and REALLY have a day-to-day familiarity with the courses he designed. Clearly, individuals could have taken his plans and tweaked them in a variety of ways.

This issue will clearly draw attention and it needs to be explored because the repercussions go far beyond the issue of Tillinghast / Burbeck and Bethpage.