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Adam Jeselnick

Golf sales tax?
« on: January 28, 2009, 03:04:47 PM »
From today's Sacramento Bee:

http://www.sacbee.com/366/story/1578563.html

Does anyone know if California would be the first state to institute a sales tax on golf?  Is this an unsettling precedent for the rest of country?

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 03:35:17 PM »
Sales tax is charged in TX.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 03:45:20 PM »
Also in Florida for private club dues and daily fee courses.


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Pat Burke

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 08:29:49 PM »
This is a proposed tax on
Initiation fees
dues
range
carts
green fees
lessons  etc
It has a reasonable chance to pass according to some well placed
Personally, would end my teaching as currently structured

Emmy

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2009, 09:46:09 PM »
The latest from California:

I am happy to report that the governor's "proposed tax on golf" is not part of the budget package approved this morning by our legislative representatives in Sacramento.
 
From a tax perspective.... golf in California is safe, for now.

For those who took the time to send an e-mail or placed a call expressing your opposition to the proposed tax...it proved helpful.
Thanks!
 
 


John Moore II

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2009, 10:21:19 PM »
They all ready tax cart fees with sales tax. And its not as if taxing all golf related items would be a terrible burden. It would add no more than 7% to the total playing fee, thats not much more than a normal year-to-year increase in fees. I mean, I am not totally for putting a sales tax on golf fees, but its not an absolutely terrible idea.

Think of it this way, even if they raise the consumer price for a round of golf 10% to take in consideration a normal increase and a tax increase, the numbers look like this:
Low Cost course: Current $40  With 10% increase $44
Mid Cost Course: Current $100 WIth 10% increase $110
High end course (Pebble): Current $400(ish) With 10% increase $440

So, really, those are not terrible fee increases.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2009, 12:31:25 AM »
This is the O era, their will be 100's of new taxes to pay for the REDISTRUBTION, it has already started
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

JSPayne

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2009, 08:10:26 AM »
Good news......just got an e-mail from my local superintendent's association this morning that, according to the California Alliance for Golf lobbyist, the "golf tax" was NOT included in the budget that was just approved.

Disaster avoided.....for now.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Evan_Green

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2009, 08:59:15 AM »
Good news......just got an e-mail from my local superintendent's association this morning that, according to the California Alliance for Golf lobbyist, the "golf tax" was NOT included in the budget that was just approved.

Disaster avoided.....for now.

http://www.forecalifornia.com/cag/index.cfm/blog/golf-tax-out-of-budget-deal/

D_Malley

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2009, 09:06:07 AM »
in Pa there is a sales tax on cart fees and many municipalities charge an entertainment tax on green fees.  i run a municiple course so during winter months we set the cart fee very low, because the tax on green fees goes back to us.

Craig Sweet

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2009, 09:10:14 AM »
Cary...

Of course you do know that the recently passed "stimulus" plan contains the largest tax cut ever...larger than Bush's and larger than Reagan's? 

I am over joyed that 95% of that tax cut will benefit people in my income bracket!
We are no longer a country of laws.

W.H. Cosgrove

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2009, 09:35:52 AM »
Washington State charges a sales tax on golf.  They have even imputed a rate for my play at my club.  I pay $13 per month for the golf they assume I play. 

I wonder if that is going to go down now that this economic mess has me working longer hours and playing less golf??

Chambers Bay, which is in the small municipality of University Place, charges the state sales tax of 8.9% and then throws an entertainment tax of 5% on top of it.  Tax in round numbers is 14%.  Your out of county weekend green fee of $169 becomes $192 pretty quickly. 

We have yet to see a financial report for 2008 but it couldn't be great and can't be getting better. 

The tax payers in the form of their sewr bill is going to get stuck with that bill as well. 

I wonder if The Santelli rant will become the first shot in true change in this country?

www.businessinsider.com/rick-santelli-incites-a-riot-in-chicago-video-2009-2



Craig Sweet

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2009, 10:03:32 AM »
The problem with the Santelli Rant is you can apply that to most any income level and situation...do I want my tax dollars bailing out his Wall Street buddies? NO!!  Do I want my tax dollars paying for BUsh's lie in Iraq? NO!!!

It is easy to get worked up, and more difficult to craft solutions that are fair, and equitable...and lastly...this generation is the first that does not want to make sacrifices and pay for future generations.
We are no longer a country of laws.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2009, 10:07:32 AM »
High end course (Pebble): Current $400(ish) With 10% increase $440

$495, to be exact (although supposedly they have been doing some discounted rounds around $300 - or was that NCGA members only?).  Add in the $49.50 increase, and you have $544.50.

Craig Sweet

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 10:15:05 AM »
Come to Montana..we have no sales tax...and beer is cheap! ;D
We are no longer a country of laws.

John Moore II

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2009, 11:25:03 AM »
High end course (Pebble): Current $400(ish) With 10% increase $440

$495, to be exact (although supposedly they have been doing some discounted rounds around $300 - or was that NCGA members only?).  Add in the $49.50 increase, and you have $544.50.

Ok fine  :P    But still, in either case, does the increase seem that huge? I mean, from $495, even a $5 increase will look huge when you see that '5' as the first number in the price. Either way, my numbers are still relevant, the increases are small.

Craig Sweet

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2009, 11:35:47 AM »
Shivas...

Good idea!  Better yet, lets get those earning $5 mil. plus back to a pre-Reagan tax rate... ;D

Oh, and how about we start dinging them for some social security taxes after they have earned $97,000?
We are no longer a country of laws.

TEPaul

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2009, 11:43:52 AM »
AdamJ:

I wish I could remember exactly where I read it but it seems there was some concern around the first or second decade of the twentieth century that the Federal government was considering taxing golf. It obviously didn't happen but at least one article from back then mentioned there was concern that it might.

Also during the teens I think the US Government (I believe Woodrow Wilson was the president) briefly considered (or was asked) essentially getting into the research and development of American golf agronomy (via the US Dept of Agriculture). Apparently they briefly considered that that might be a service to the nation (the national economy?).

In actuality the US Dept. of Agriculture did serve as an important research arm and entity for the development of American golf agronomy but they were pretty much reimbursed annually for their efforts by the USGA for a number of years.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 11:48:11 AM by TEPaul »

Jim Thompson

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Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2009, 11:54:49 AM »
Craig, it's going to be interesting to see how the generation that elected Obama and his socialist komrades explain to their children that their knee-jerk, hystrionic vote in 2008 caused - for the first time in American history - an entire generation to have NO CHANCE at the American dream or a better life than their parents had.

I can't wait to hear that explanation once they're old enough to realize what they've done to their country so they could vent with a lever...

Don't worry Shiv,

They'll blame it all on Bush instead....but hey it goes both ways....the Republicans still love to blame Clinton for tons of stuff too!!  ;)

jeffwarne

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2009, 11:59:30 AM »
Shivas...

Good idea!  Better yet, lets get those earning $5 mil. plus back to a pre-Reagan tax rate... ;D

Oh, and how about we start dinging them for some social security taxes after they have earned $97,000?

the only reason the government doesn't tax SS on those who make more than $97,000 is to allow the individual to turn it into more money, rather than immediately squandering it by giving it to the government.
They'll take it back later (when SS is insolvent)to fund the retirement of those who put nothing away for their own retirement.

Lost in all these misguided attempts to prop up property values is the fact that many responsible people have been priced out of owning a home due to the Real estate bubble-and if prices were given a chance to fairly correct, many of these homes would end up in the hands of those who have sacrificed and saved (God forbid a down payment)and could truly afford to responsibly take care of them.
Propping them up only keeps them in weak hands and in many cases,irresponsible hands.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adam Jeselnick

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2009, 12:00:29 PM »
The government DID tax golf in the 1920s.

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1928/gi301f.pdf

I could not access most of the articles on the subject but maybe someone else here could dig up more information on why the tax was enacted, and then repealed.

Lou_Duran

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2009, 12:03:44 PM »
Why again should golf be exempt from taxation while other recreational and entertainment products be subject to it?

Perhaps Craig Sweet can name the "Wall Street buddies" who have been bailed out by his tax dollars.  It was my impression that the President was bailing out creditors, some debtors, and mostly lower-level employees- particularly those with union affiliation.  Executives and those under performance-based compensation are told to rip-up their contracts and take but pennies on the dollars due to them.

And Craig, you've told us in the past that you don't make very much money.  Some 40%-46% of American "taxpayers" don't pay ANY federal income taxes (no fair bringing up payroll tax- social security is forced savings not a tax to pay for other purposes).  I never did understand the President's promise that 95% of Americans would get a tax cut under his plan when nearly half don't pay any taxes to begin with.  I suspect that semantics and not math was Obama's strong suit and his mendacious, tax-adverse Treasury secretary has made the astonishing confession that he doesn't like numbers very much.  It must take an article of faith or a suspension of disbelief, but I've never claimed that we are a particularly smart people.

So, for my edification, please provide some detail on how much of your taxes are going to pay for the WS fat cats, or the Iraq war for that matter.  I know, the words "general welfare" are in the Preamble.  Our founding fathers must be doing loops in their graves.  But, I forgot, these guys tolerated slavery so how can we hold them in any kind of favorable light?  They must be now just getting their comeuppance.

TEPaul

Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2009, 12:19:23 PM »
AdamJ:

Thanks for that GI article on a golf tax. That might've been the one I saw but apparently I didn't even notice it was imposed. But I think I might have been reading some article (perhaps also in GI) that discussed the issue leading up to the imposition of a golf tax. I say that because most all my research to date has so far concentrated on the years before the late 1920s.

Craig Sweet

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Re: Golf sales tax?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2009, 01:28:09 PM »
Lou..don't you think it's a sad day when 40-45% of the working people in a country earn so little that they don't pay any income taxes?

We are no longer a country of laws.