[Ryan Farrow]

Just thought I would post some photos and comments after getting a chance to play the course.

Overall it was great, $42 after a $50 City of Phoenix golf pass, makes it one of the best deals in town.

-The bunkers are 1000% better. Added bunkers have been put in the right place. They are deep, big, and tough.
-Green contours are still the same, still great. IDK what happened to #1 green.
-17th hole is now visible, plays great.
-11th hole has been improved. Bunker on the hole is weird but it works.
-Course is very firm, receptive to run-up shots. And all around great conditioning.
-A real practice area and range is a big +. Not to mention people are actually using it now.

Now they can take down a few hundred more trees and spruce up the native/desert areas. It really hurts the off course visuals. I'd image this was all a money thing, and hopefully a work in progress.

-And I have to say the 18th hole was a big let down, I really wished a few trees were replaced by bunkers, it still epitomizes the pre-renovation Papago feel, which is not really a good one and not a great way to end a damn good round of golf.



#2 Approach

     
#4 Approach

     
#6 Tee Shot

     
Half of a Tree?

     
#9 Approach

     
#9's Magic  Lake

     
Dead Trees

     
Visible #17

     
#18 Tee Shot



*sorry for the bad pictures I played stupid with my camera today and had the ISO set to 1600 instead of 100. (makes for some very grainy pictures)

[Tom_Doak]

Ryan:

I had never played Papago "before", so my question is if the 17th hole is only now "visible", what was the hole like beforehand?

P.S.  Nice to see photos of a course that isn't overseeded to the max.

[Ryan Farrow]

For some reason I did take a picture of this hole before.

From the tee:


Approach:



You could see about half the pin and that was about it. Today I hit a 230 yard driver at about half speed that just came up short. I missed the first bounce but could see it roll and bounce about 10 yards up the approach. Before, I would not have been able to see anything until I walked up to the green.

I'm guessing the green was raised more than a few feet.

[Tom Yost]

Thanks Ryan, I really have to get out there SOON!

[Matt_Ward]

Calling a tree cutter -- please head to Papago because work still needs to happen.

Ryan -- thanks for the report & photos ...

[Dave Givnish]

There was a big summer storm that came through and took out a lot of trees - just the wrong ones! 

[Doug Wright]

I've never played Papago. Now that it's redone, how does Papago stack up against courses such as Talking Stick North/South, TPC Champions et al?

[Doug Wright]

I've never played Papago. Now that it's redone, how does Papago stack up against courses such as Talking Stick North/South, TPC Champions et al?

Bumping this to page 1 because I'm headed to AZ next week and am curious about Papago....

[Mark Smolens]

Saw that the LPGA event in March will be contested at Papago. . .

[Tom Yost]

Saw that the LPGA event in March will be contested at Papago. . .

Hey that's news!

Here's a link to a John Davis AZ Republic article

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/golf/articles/2009/02/05/20090205lpga0206.html

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I think the comments to John Davis' article are very interesting.

There is no clubhouse yet. Is course condition a problem now? There is almost 2 months to get it in shape. Will play be restricted before the event?

I emailed Billy Fuller, the architect in charge, more than a month ago asking him to comment on a previous Papago thread that mentioned the need for more tree work. I never received the courtesy of a response.

[jeffwarne]

I think the comments to John Davis' article are very interesting.

There is no clubhouse yet. Is course condition a problem now? There is almost 2 months to get it in shape. Will play be restricted before the event?

I emailed Billy Fuller, the architect in charge, more than a month ago asking him to comment on a previous Papago thread that mentioned the need for more tree work. I never received the courtesy of a response.

It doesn't look overtreed to me.
Why must every course lose ALL trees.
I've seen enough "native look" desert courses.
Can't one have a different, more mature look?
If we're going back to natural, let's lose the grass as well.
Putting in more bunkers costs money and maintenance

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jeff,

The previous thread with photos highligted numerous dead trees remaining on the course. Who said anything about removing "ALL trees?"

I've played the old Papago numerous times. It is a refreshing change of pace from the newer desert courses just as Wigwam Gold is and others in AZ such as Randolph Park in Tucson and the Tubac Resort. I look forward to playing the New Papago...without seeing dead trees.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

The previous thread with photos highligted numerous dead trees remaining on the course.

Steve,
Then it should it be a GCA fave   in time

[Jason Topp]

The LPGA announced that its Phoenix tournament will be held at Papago this year. 

[PThomas]

dead trees often attract birds, maybe thats why they are keeping them

[Doug Wright]

I've never played Papago. Now that it's redone, how does Papago stack up against courses such as Talking Stick North/South, TPC Champions et al?

OK so they're hosting the LPGA and there are trees dead and alive. Can anyone answer this question? Thanks.

[Paul OConnor]

Just got back from a few days in Phoenix.  Played TPC Champions, Talking Stick North, Raven and Papago.

Thoughts on Papago.  Well, this is a muni course.  No clubhouse, gas carts, pretty minimal amenities.   The conditioning is not to the level of Talking Stick North, but, again, it's municipal golf.  The greens are a little bumpy, there are large waste areas, well off line that are just hardpan and kinda scrubby rocks and junk, but the fairways were all in pretty good shape.  Bunkers all had good sand.  Greens were ok, could've used a good rolling to be a little smoother, but were very playable.  One of the guys we played with just couldn't get past the "rough edges", I guess he's too much used to really well manicured courses. 

I LOVED the layout.  Great variation of holes, terrrific bunkering, plenty of contour on the greens, and lots of shot variety.   Pretty firm conditions as you might expect.  Looking past the municipal aspects, I thought this course was very good.  Plus the course is close to the airport, so a morning round and 2:00 flight out is real easy. We paid $100 on Saturday morning.

TPC Champions was a nice surprise.  Some guys we ran into the night before complained about the course condition, but I thought it was fine.  No overseeding, so the grass was brown, but in good shape.  This was a fun course, the condos kinda crowd a little on a few holes, but there were alot of really good holes.  I thought the greens were "simple" in terms of internal contour, but not flat.  Also, if anyone is going out, we got a coupon tp play the TPC Stadium course for $149 when we checked in.  Already had tee times, but I would have jumped at the chance, versus ~$280 at the rack rate. 

Talking Stick North was in great shape.  I had played before, and enjoyed again.  Nice greens, cool layout.  My only complaint was that on alot of holes it seemed like I just had the tee shot on the previous five or six holes.  We played after 2:00 twilight rate for $110, there was no one else there, I mean the course was empty, and the weather was perfect.  Real nice day for us.

Raven, decent enough layout, but the conditioning, and clubhouse in general are suffering from lack of attention.  Course needed alot of work, and we didn't see too many grounds crew out working on it.  We played for $69 each, discounted from $180 rack rate.  They were offering some kind of membership deal, it was posted over the urinal in the mens room, $10,000, included golf and cart, all the golf you could play, forever I guess.  I didn't piss long enough to read the whole deal!!  For the $69 it was ok.  Probably never going back though.

Also, If you're lookin for something to do at night, go to Barcelona.  Holy smokes!!  Nice scenery, talk about architecture!!!!  Plenty of contour on those greens, fast and firm! 

[Duane Sharpe]

Barcelona was the best club I played in Phoenix last year as well.   I will be back there March 20th.

[Forrest Richardson]

Ryan — "17th hole is now visible, plays great." I will echo Tom D's question...what makes this better or great compared to the blind shot on the past 45 years?

When I labored with the master plan for Papago the 17th was a great source of ying and yang — I asked Jack Snyder why the rolls of the terrain were not mowed down so you could see the green and he said, "Because we did not have the money...and Billy [Bell, e.g, Wm F.] did all the plans from his California office." To me, that pretty much signified that Papago "was was it was". That the grading was minimal, and 'so what..?' a few holes had blind or partially blind shots. No. 14 was another if you could not out-drive 240 yards — you had to guess where to place your shot. Now, I suspect, it is rather 'obvious' where to hit at No. 14. And, sadly (if you enjoy the occasional blind shot) now also at No. 17.

As I have said here in past months...I have not played the new, reMODELED Papago yet, but I hope to soon and can post my reviews when the time comes.

[Forrest Richardson]

Barcelona?? What, where?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Forrest,

I'm shocked that you've never been there. You must lead a sheltered life:

www.barcelonaarizona.com/

[Ryan Farrow]

Forrest, I'm not sure what you are talking about with 14? What makes it obvious now? Trees were cut down and now its a lot more difficult to aim for that green.

As for 17, it was easily one of the worst holes on the course. Plus a long, blind par 3 is a lot worse than a short, blind par 3. More shots are further offline, thus making it harder to find your ball, and leaving the excitement of walking up to the green to see where your ball landed with a chosen few. I'm sorry but on a long Par 3, you want to see your ball land/kick/roll onto the green, not fall into some abyss.  This combo ='s a less than thrilling hole, which you don't want near the end of a round.


Bring out the dynamite 

[Tom Yost]

Haven't yet played the re-do but in the old configuration,  I noticed a slope on 17 that was short and right of the green and always wished that it would be mowed down short such that you could feed the ball down onto the green with a shorter shot played to the right.  As it was, they always kept it at rough height so there was no way to get to the green other than with a LONG tee ball.

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