[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I wouldn't answer this Pinehurst #2,but one of the bloodiest rounds I have seen was a guy with a 15 handicap who hits it pretty well but flips his chips and putts.He didn't finish half the holes(but never lost a ball)

I was going to suggest Pinehurst.  Most mid to high-handicap players amass most of their strokes from 50 yards in.  That's where Pinehurst is the most difficult.  Courses like The Ocean Course, if you play the correct set of tees, is very managable.  The greens aren't severe and once you learn to play the transition areas, it's relatively easy 50 yards in.  Not so at Pinehurst.

[Jon Heise]

I was going to suggest Pinehurst.  Most mid to high-handicap players amass most of their strokes from 50 yards in.  That's where Pinehurst is the most difficult.  Courses like The Ocean Course, if you play the correct set of tees, is very managable.  The greens aren't severe and once you learn to play the transition areas, it's relatively easy 50 yards in.  Not so at Pinehurst.

hmmmm, kind of interesting.  I got smoked by the greens at the Ocean Course, but I handled No. 2's pretty easy.  Well, relative to me at least  .

Of the courses I've played, I'll say Shepherd's Hollow is one of the toughest Ive played.  Lots of long carries, severe bumps, slick greens, and maybe some silly holes.  Eagle Eye was a real challenge, though Ive only played it once.

[Steve Salmen]

I usually play the back tees and because I don't hit the ball prodigious distances, my tee shots are frequently short of the trouble on long courses. 

I played Butler National around 7400 yds.  There was no shortage of trouble in the 250 to 280 yd range if the drive strayed off line.  Add to that, many greens are slightly elevated and are shaped either back left to right front or back right to left front.  This forces a precise second shot both in distance and purity of the strike.  Slightly fat will come up short, slightly thin can easily skip off the back, leaving a treacherous downhill chip.

The greens are difficult to read and have many subtle breaks.  They are fast and generally slope from back to front.  It's not difficult to hit first putts eight feet past the hole.

For a high handicap player, it's too long, narrow and demanding to expect a good score, if that really matters.

[Mike Fowler]

I think Wolf Creek in Mesquite, Nevada has to figure in to any discussion of hardest courses around. I'm a 6 and played Ocean Course on 2 back to back days last summer. One day wind howled the next day was relatively calm. Course was brutal with the wind blowing but very manageable in benign conditions. I think when you're playing any course the weather has as much to do with it's difficulty as the course itself. If I were a 20 hdcp. I'd think they're all hard!

[Rick Sides]

I think you would have to add Merion into the mix.  Yes they have some shorter holes under 400 yards, however, the green complexes are very tough.  Also, there are a lot of up-hill and down hill lies that you have to play.  Myself as a mid handicap player (12) found Merion tough although I second the fact that Oakmont is the toughest course I think ever.

[Brian Joines]

I played Tobacco Road with my Dad who is around a 22. He didn't seem to have too much trouble with the course from what I can remember. I would say that it isn't even close to as difficult as Wolf Run for the mid-high handicappers. I remember playing Wolf Run for the first time and thinking, I could never bring my Dad out here.

I've never played Oakmont or BB but from the television, I can't imagine them being harder than Wolf Run for the average golfer. (unless their US. Open length rough is in play).  If anybody has played Wolf Run and BB or Oakmont, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[C. Squier]

I played Tobacco Road with my Dad who is around a 22. He didn't seem to have too much trouble with the course from what I can remember. I would say that it isn't even close to as difficult as Wolf Run for the mid-high handicappers. I remember playing Wolf Run for the first time and thinking, I could never bring my Dad out here.

I've never played Oakmont or BB but from the television, I can't imagine them being harder than Wolf Run for the average golfer. (unless their US. Open length rough is in play).  If anybody has played Wolf Run and BB or Oakmont, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

All depends on why you're a mid/high handicapper.  I was afraid the first time I brought my dad to Wolf Run that he wouldn't have a great time.  He used to be a pretty darn good player, but age has slowed him down and just doesn't hit it very far anymore.  We played the silver tees (3rd set from the back) and he got around just fine.  But he still hits the ball really straight and can putt.  He thinks it's easier than Olympia Fields by some degree.  Now on the other hand, I brought out some younger mid/high handicaps last year who are mid/high because they are more concerned with how far it goes than how straight.  Wolf Run beat them up pretty good.  For me, it's an ultimate "red light / green light" course.  You can make a bunch of birdies, but a bad shot at the wrong time can be unforgiving. 

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