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George_Bahto

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5th at Garden City picture
« on: January 20, 2009, 02:51:59 PM »
I'm looking for a picture of the original 5th hole at Garden City - hopefully there is one out there.

I have the drawing of the hole (and course) from their club history but as yet no picture.

any help out there?
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Matt_Davenport

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 04:30:05 PM »
George,
Do you have a year that it was modified?
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George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 06:33:15 PM »
Matt, I'll post a drawing.
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 07:18:32 PM »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 09:38:34 AM »
Can you compare that to its current placement.
Am I to presume the current green is to the right of the one shown?
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CBFriars

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 10:33:19 AM »
George,

Don't remember seeing a picture of that green at the club during my tenure there.  I wish they had never moved that green.  I always thought that would have been a great short 4 if left alone.

I believe it was moved sometime during the 60's or 70's and was re-constructed by Tom Doak in early 90's, right before I started there.  The current green is 50-80 yards longer and straight away

Good luck searching for those photos...please post if you find it.  Would like to see it.
 

 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 10:43:44 AM by CBFriars »
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Matt_Davenport

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 11:05:42 AM »
George, et al.
Could anyone post a stick routing as I am not familiar with the numbering of holes on the property?
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ChipOat

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 11:09:00 AM »
Original green moved to the right circa 1970-ish; the grass never "took" so the club did move it yet again as described in the early 90's.

The club also had a problem with the new 15th green that was re-built circa 1975; grass never took there, either.
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 11:45:28 AM »
That os rather intersting about #15.
Every time I have played there I have thought how out of charcter that green is..so severe with so few pin placements possible.
I love the hole, but think the green should be more playable.
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Sean_A

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 11:50:39 AM »
Quote from: George_Bahto on January 20, 2009, 07:18:32 PM


George

I don't want to really throw this discussion off whack, but if you have drawings and some pix of Garden City I for one would love to see you start a thread on the course with the aim of really showcasing it.  Garden City always sounded like such a cool course with all the lay of the land holes.  Oh pretty please, do start a GC thread.

Ciao
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JSlonis

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 11:52:36 AM »
Quote from: chipoat on January 21, 2009, 11:09:00 AM
The club also had a problem with the new 15th green that was re-built circa 1975; grass never took there, either.

Are you sure you didn't mean the 14th green?  I don't think there would be anything to rebuild on the 15th green.  It just sits right on the level of the ground around it and the grass is always good on that green.

The 14th green is a bit different than the rest and more similar to the 5th green in grass type and firmness.  Those two greens are usually more firm than all the others on the course.
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Matt_Davenport

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 12:20:38 PM »
Any help numbering the holes?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 12:50:01 PM by Matt_Davenport »
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 12:28:33 PM »
Matt,

That is the aerial of Garden City Country Club.  I assumed we were talking about Garden City Golf Club.  The Garden City Country club was designed by Travis.  Garden City Golf Club was orginal designed by Devereux Emmet and remodeled by Travis and then again by Emmet.

Chris

AMENDMENT - MATT HAS NOW CHANGED THE AERIAL TO THAT OF GARDEN CITY GOLF CLUB (THE Emmet - Travis - Emmet Course).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 09:15:55 AM by Chris_Blakely »
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Matt_Davenport

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 01:01:45 PM »
2006 image
<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=3814"

1966 image
<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=3815"

This website will allow you to compare two images at once by moving a bar from left to right--like magic you go from 1966 to 2006. The old green is there in the 1966 image (B/W, not crystal clear and certainly not like your drawing, George, but it's there).
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SPDB

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2009, 03:19:24 PM »
Quote from: Matt_Davenport on January 21, 2009, 01:01:45 PM
2006 image
<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=3814"

1966 image
<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=3815"

This website will allow you to compare two images at once by moving a bar from left to right--like magic you go from 1966 to 2006. The old green is there in the 1966 image (B/W, not crystal clear and certainly not like your drawing, George, but it's there).

That is a remarkable application!
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TEPaul

Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2009, 04:31:51 PM »
George:

If you are asking on here I guess you've already expended most logical possibilities but have you ever actually walked through that entire clubhouse and checked everything out on the walls? When we spent about three days there for the Lesley Cup Centennial in 2005 I found a photo way over on the far right corner of the diningroom that revealed something pretty interesting about the 9th green I don't remember that those who really know that course well were aware of.
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2009, 04:33:55 PM »
I thought that was Garden City Golf Club...the site of the Travis Memorial...that is the one pictured above....
Number one is bottom left corner...
now I am confused about which course is which..golf club or country club...
Patrick help us out here!
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Kalen Braley

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2009, 05:41:47 PM »
Matt got it right,

That is indeed the Garden City Golf Club...I'd recognize that 18th hole anywhere after having a big debate with Mr. Mucci about it.   ;D

The Country Club is a mile to the south-west of there.
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George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2009, 06:55:46 PM »
CBFriars: You worked there  - doing what?


Sean Arble: I don’t know enuf about Garden City to start a thread properly but I do have quite a bit of material on the course - Tom D, of course, worked there extensively and Pat is a member. They certainly know more about the course and club than I cold ever hope to


Tom Paul: I’ve been there, played there once, and been thru most of the mountain of the material hanging in the clubhouse and I have a copy of their great club history, my friend Bill Quirin helped with.


There are a few features on the course that are of interest to me at this time - for the Raynor book.

That drawing of mine of the old 5th was a hole Raynor referred to as a model for a hole he used on a few courses .... and if you go back to the Seaview thread, you’ll see the 5th there was just about the same hole strategy.

I am also looking for information on the original 12th green that had a very interesting feature on it -called the "box of mounds" (Tom clued me in on that feature) .......... so has anyone heard of "box of mounds"
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2009, 07:28:38 PM »
Hmmmm: I think I found something - the older version of their club history dated 1949 shows early maps and photos of all the holes - unfortunately my copy is a very bad xerox.

It's their Golden Anniversary History 1899-1949

Anyone have this in hard cover?
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2009, 07:38:41 PM »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2009, 07:49:52 PM »
here's an older map

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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Tom_Doak

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2009, 09:36:27 PM »
As corrected above, it is the fifth and fourteenth greens that were changed in the 1960's or 1970's, which we rebuilt 10-15 years ago.  We tried our best to mimic the native sand and topsoil which the other greens were built from, but there are still some differences ... though not as bad as the previous rebuild, where the 5th green was always mushy and the 14th hard as pavement!

GB:  The "box of mounds" was just my own description to you of the feature in the old 12th green ... it didn't have a name as far as I am aware, or at least not a printable name!
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Paul Jones

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2009, 09:58:56 PM »


« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 10:02:56 PM by Paul Jones »
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Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

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Re: 5th at Garden City picture
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2009, 10:06:38 PM »
Sorry, just realized you were looking for the orignal green picture.
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Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com
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