[David_Tepper]

I would highly recommend reading Geoff Shackelford's "Part of the Solution" essay in the January 19 issue of GolfWorld.  Here is a link:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2009/01/gw20090119shackelford

[Joel_Stewart]

At least he is getting the word out and showing some positive results.  The golf industry has done a very poor job in educating the public about many of the eco friendly initiatives it has undertaken.

It's really just the begining, there is still many more things to do especially with regard to water, energy use and use of fertilizer.

[Sean_A]

Given the plight of America's infrastructure its hard to take an article like this seriously - especially when there is very little call for new or renovated courses.  Me thinks this is an inside the industry PoV that is hopelessly out of tune with reality.  Shit, the government could probably spend its entire budget on this sort of WPA just rebuilding New Orleans!  I can only hope that Obama is not considering spending tax money on golf courses given the state of the economy and the over-abundance of coruses already on the market.

Ciao

[TEPaul]

Very fine article. Makes complete sense to me, particularly the parts about resource conservation (less water and back to organic) in golf and its future maintenance. It's amazing what the half century love affair with lush green in American golf has led to, including the supreme irony of America's seeming belief that lush green grass is healthy grass. In fact it is about the polar opposite of healthy naturally self-enduring grass. I have a term for lush green American golf grass (and other grass such as lawns)---I call it "The Great American Agronomic Emergency Ward" and I think it was, is and will certainly continue to be a most accurate and appropriate term.

[Rich Goodale]

This is a hopelessly naive and self-centered article.  If it draws one penny away from the important infrastructural tasks which Pres. Obama has talked about funding (bridge repair, telecommuncations infrastructure, schools, etc.) it will also be detrimental to the economic recovery of the US and the rest of the world.  As Sean rightly says, the last things that are needed in America (or the UK, for that matter) are more golf courses.  Geoff should go back home and think again about this one.

[Tom Huckaby]

I have to say I completely concur with Sean and Rich.

Jeez man we have a LOT greater problems than lack of golf courses.

It's OK though - everyone deserves a mulligan.  Geoff just needs to take one now.

To that end... Rich:  I have been ordered to get more exercise and how I comply with said order is via daily walks around the Stanford varsity practice area, and that side of the golf course... man every single time around I am reminded of your sage words as to what might have been there on that land given to the varsity practice site... good god is it a FANTASTIC site for golf... it's a mini-Sheep Ranch really, with so many combinations of real golf holes available... but you were oh so right as to what might have been for the greater good of the world there, and thus the relative shame of it all.  It's a great reality check - we golfers are a selfish lot. 

I never thought I'd ever say this.... but there is indeed more to the world than golf.

 

[David_Tepper]

Sean, Rich & Tom -

Go back and read the article again. Geoff S. specifically said he is not advocating building more 18-hole golf courses (unless there is a wasteland reclamation opportunity). 

He does advocate building user friendly facilities (such as par-3 courses & community putting greens) and renovating existed muni courses that have been run down and abused thru lack of funding over the years.

DT   

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean, Rich & Tom -

Go back and read the article again. Geoff S. specifically said he is not advocating building more 18-hole golf courses (unless there is a wasteland reclamation opportunity). 

He does advocate building user friendly facilities (such as par-3 courses & community putting greens) and renovating existed muni courses that have been run down and abused thru lack of funding over the years.

DT   

I read the article.

My take remains the same.  Golf courses in whatever form remain very low priority as I see things.

But politics and the like is really not my world.  I shall bow out now.

TH

[Sean_A]

Sean, Rich & Tom -

Go back and read the article again. Geoff S. specifically said he is not advocating building more 18-hole golf courses (unless there is a wasteland reclamation opportunity). 

He does advocate building user friendly facilities (such as par-3 courses & community putting greens) and renovating existed muni courses that have been run down and abused thru lack of funding over the years.

DT   

I read the article.

My take remains the same.  Golf courses in whatever form remain very low priority as I see things.

But politics and the like is really not my world.  I shall bow out now.

TH

Yes, what AwsHuckabilly said.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

My take is a bit more middle ground.  I can see both sides, and I think Geoffs heart is in the right place, but in the final analysis....

Do we really need improved golfing centers vs fixing our schools?  Or solving the job outsourcing problem?  Or crumbling infrastructure? Or national security?  Homelessness?  Mortgage crisis? Or any other of a long list of issues that has got to come before playing a game?

[Mark_F]

This is a hopelessly naive and self-centered article. 

It isn't that self-centered, Rich.  The money spent on schools will be saved through not building prisons, leaving plenty for golf.

Although I am puzzled as to how the USA,the world's economic powerhouse of the last fifty years, finds itself with such crumbling infrastructure.

Perhaps Lou Duran hasn't been contributing his fair share of tax?

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

I'll take credit for that. Perhaps crumbling was too strong a word for the infrastructure, its not near that bad....but there are always much need improvements that many muni, city, county, and state govt's can use.

[PCCraig]

I think building new or restoring old golf courses is about #3,459,837 on Obama's priority list and Geoff is really reaching for this one. Remember, there was a whole lot more land then and really almost no need for infrastructure or technology like there is now.

That being said the one plus to building new golf courses (or public facilities, etc...) is that there is future annual employment needs built in with the course vs. a highway which for its size employs little.

[Jim_Kennedy]

In the '30s we didn't 'need' green technologies, and we had enough of our own, or at least easy access to, cheap oil. This new plunge in oil prices won't last, and as it stands now we sell too much of our human resources to obtain it, never mind the monetary cost. Even if cheap oil remains available for 25 years, the price of failing to move into clean and renewable energy sources will eventually lead to our near total dependence on outside resources, in a world market that's clamoring for them. Just think of the increased cost at that time, in lives and cash, that our grandchildren will be paying. We should be placing every available dollar we can put our hands on into the identification and implementation of new fuels.

Golf will have to wait, JMO.  



 
  

  




 




  

[Steve Lang]

   I don't mind GS's voicing this opinion at all..

never up, never in..

i'm more amazed at:

"The figures proved staggering: Golf is a $76 billion-a-year industry, producing two million jobs that generate $61 billion in wages. "

61E9 wages/2E6 jobs = 30.5E3 $/job ., that's $30,500 / job  average

[Pat Brockwell]

We could use Economic Stimulus Dollars on our course to enhance our ability to bring customers in and create good jobs.  It would benefit the community for the long term and help the economy right away. A few $100,000 and we're stimulating by March 1st.

[Steve Lang]

  Pat, so we could fly over from Houston this weekend and easily get some tee times at BM?  what will it be like in March?

looking forward to our return to the Course of Enchantment..

[Mike_Cirba]

Geoff Shackelford is absolutely right on this issue.

Yes, there are higher priorities, but municipal golf courses near major urban and suburban areas provide much needed environmental relief through greenspace, and have the potential to add to much needed economic relief through the creation of jobs for golf course-related waterway and flood control initiatives, fire breaks, woodland preservation and planting, and building and course construction.   

Man does not live by asphalt and concrete alone.

[Carl Nichols]

IMHO, bailout money (or its equivalent) should be spent only on propping up companies:  (1) that, if they failed, would devastate our economy; and (2) that are major manufacturers.  Looking at this from a very big picture, and without getting into major macroeconomic issues, it's unclear to me how the United States can continue to be the world's most important economy if we continue to evolve from a manufacturing economy to a service economy.  The former creates wealth; the latter may too, but in a less direct (and long-term) way.  Golf development in the U.S. seems to fall much more in the latter category

That's not to say that golf-related investment isn't a reasonable thing for governments to think about it; it may be.  But on the list of priorities, I agree with Sean and others that it's way, way down the list.

[Mike_Cirba]

Carl,

That's a thought-provoking, obviously sensible post, but I'd still argue that the only way we can fundamentally change in a positive way during this vast economic transition in our country and world is not based on any grand national or federal strategy, but instead based on hundreds and even thousands of more localized positive strategies creating economically and environmentally viable and even vibrant places to live on a regional basis.  Yes, we can co-opt each others best ideas, but each of us needs to be working towards those ends in our own neighborhoods.

If you don't see golf courses as a part of that, then I think you're thinking too small.

[Sean_A]

Carl,

That's a thought-provoking, obviously sensible post, but I'd still argue that the only way we can fundamentally change in a positive way during this vast economic transition in our country and world is not based on any grand national or federal strategy, but instead based on hundreds and even thousands of more localized positive strategies creating economically and environmentally viable and even vibrant places to live on a regional basis.  Yes, we can co-opt each others best ideas, but each of us needs to be working towards those ends in our own neighborhoods.

If you don't see golf courses as a part of that, then I think you're thinking too small.

Mike

I would suggest that a neighbourhood placing improved golf facilities as high on the priority list is not really a high priority for the government. 

Golf courses can be part of your plan, but does that mean they need public dollars?  Think about it, there are too many courses for the number of golfers.  Are you suggesting that in addition to improved facilities (which in no way is a guarantee that custom will increase) and added facilities that the government should also spend money to encourage folks to use the facilities?  I am not sure I quite follow this logic.  This is not the time for government supported golf my friend.  In fact, there are loads of course owners that question if the government should ever be involved in the business. 

Ciao

[Lou_Duran]

Mike Cirba,

You really do need to get out and meet more people.  For whatever reason, your comments regarding Goodale brought to mind Spielberg's remark after spending eight hours with Fidel Castro ( that they were " the eight most important hours of my life").  I suspected that you are a Keynesian at heart, but are you now making a supply-side argument for golf?  A little too schizophrenic for my taste, but I doubt that you would accuse me of thinking too big.

Among the last things this country and the golf industry need is a neo-New Deal with a WPA golf component.  Unless, of course, you want to drive private ownership out of the business and municipalize the game.  We all know how well local governments run their public courses.

But don't take my word for it.  Here is what FDR's close friend and Treasury secretary Henry Morganthau told congress in 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"

On the other hand, if we must spend trillions that we don't have, then why not slice a few billion for golf?  Perhaps a better approach is to provide the 30 or so million golfers in the U.S. with a few thousand golf stamps redeemable at their public course of choice.  At least that wouldn't exacerbate the inventory problem in much of the country and would make our time on the dole that much more enjoyable.  Yes we can!

[Jim Nugent]

In the '30s we didn't 'need' green technologies, and we had enough of our own, or at least easy access to, cheap oil. This new plunge in oil prices won't last, and as it stands now we sell too much of our human resources to obtain it, never mind the monetary cost. Even if cheap oil remains available for 25 years, the price of failing to move into clean and renewable energy sources will eventually lead to our near total dependence on outside resources, in a world market that's clamoring for them. Just think of the increased cost at that time, in lives and cash, that our grandchildren will be paying.   

I think we have enough oil to last hundreds of years.  I also think the plunge in oil prices will last, long-term.  Maybe some spikes upward, even some substantial ones.  But they too will collapse.  The back of the oil bubble is broken IMHO. 

I also think we're only beginning to feel the economic pain.  This idea that we can borrow and spend our way out of our economic mess -- when we already owe untold trillions due to excess borrowing and spending -- seems backwards to me.   

[Steve Lang]

  do we need park/course improvements for the people or $650 million more digital converter box coupons?

infrastructure or locking in propaganda machines access.. i'll take anything in the spectrum of reasonable use infrastructure

[Joe Hancock]

do we need park/course improvements for the people or $650 million more digital converter box coupons?

infrastructure or locking in propaganda machines access.. i'll take anything in the spectrum of reasonable use infrastructure

That's a bit like feeling good about yourself worth because you're not as slack as the deadbeat dad slacker that used to live next door until he ran off with some floozie he met at the bar last week, while he leaves behind a pregnant wife with 3 other small children....

Sorry, I don't know anyone that fits that description....

Let's invest in manufacturing, you know, so our country actually produces something again, like it did in the good old days........

Never mind which unworthy industries or ideas have already received bail out money. If golf gets it too, then what about ski resorts, tennis and fitness clubs, diet and exercise clubs that only women can join, bowling alleys(there's a dying business for ya), etc......if I'm a legislator, that's how I'm thinking about this, not justifying the money for golf because I'm obsessed with golf....

Joe

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