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Mike_Cirba

Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« on: January 10, 2009, 04:49:50 PM »








and, just because I'm in a football mood, someone who always made it look easy...


BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 04:57:26 PM »
Mike - Interesting Who is the author? Source?

Bob

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 04:59:53 PM »
Bob,

Philadelphia Inquirer - Feb 1914, authored by "Verdant Greene", found by Joe Bausch

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 05:12:35 PM »
I posted that article last year in a thread with the 1914 Philadelphia Inquirer Pine Valley routing:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32551.msg643139.html#msg643139

but it obviously got lost in the PV discussion of that thread!  Thanks for starting up a fresh thread on this rather interesting article Mike.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 05:39:46 PM »
A couple of interesting points...

"Fowler, like two or three Americans, is an amateur turned links architect and eternally yearns for the ideal..."

"Some of his notions are well worthy of consideration, but the conception many American players have gained of hiim have conformed roughly to that of the idyllic Bunthorne, the poet of Gilbert and Sullivan's "Patience"."


From Wikipedia;

The opera is a satire on the aesthetic movement of the 1870s and '80s in England, when the output of poets, composers, painters and designers of all kinds was indeed prolific—but, some argued, empty and self-indulgent. This artistic movement was so popular, and also so easy to ridicule as a meaningless fad, that it made Patience a big hit. The topical nature of the story may make Patience somewhat less accessible to some modern audiences, and G&S fans tend to have strong feelings one way or the other about Patience. Modern productions have sometimes "updated" the setting of Patience to an analogous era, such as a hippie Patience, where there is a flower-child poet versus a beat poet.

A popular myth holds that the central character, Bunthorne, a "Fleshly Poet," was intended to satirize Oscar Wilde. However, this identification is retrospective: in fact, the authors hired Wilde, after the fact, to popularize the opera in America (see below). There is a good case to be made that Bunthorne is based on the poets Algernon Swinburne and Dante Gabriel Rossetti, who were considerably more famous than Wilde in 1881. Rossetti had been attacked for immorality by Robert Buchanan (under the pseudonym of Thomas Maitland) in an article called "The Fleshly School of Poetry", published in the Contemporary Review for October, 1871. Nonetheless, Wilde's biographer Richard Ellmann suggests that Wilde is a partial model for both Bunthorne and his rival Grosvenor. Wilde had recently been satirised by F. C. Burnand in his play The Colonel (February 1881), and he wrote to George Grossmith (who played the role of Bunthorne), having been informed that Bunthorne 'took him off', asking for tickets for the first night.





BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 06:01:43 PM »
The "Fleshly Poet"?? And a "Fleshly School of Poetry" no less???

Best find ever on GCA. I plan to use it in the future on any pretext. I'm going to a cocktail party tonight. My goal is to find the right moment to wheel it out. I won't be invited back, but hey, sacrifices must be made. Great stuff.   

You sure that's not a picture from Tom Paul's high school yearbook?

Now, if we could only find a way to connect Oscar Wilde to golf architecture the afternoon would be perfect.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 06:06:14 PM by BCrosby »

Peter Pallotta

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 06:33:56 PM »
Mike - thanks.

The first 2 decades of the 1900s in American golf seem to have been (to me at least) surprisingly fluid and fast moving - fluid in how the ideas/ideals about what made for good golf courses kept changing, fast moving in how early on a very few of those golf courses were deemed great; in the case of PV, even before it was finished.

Peter

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 07:56:35 PM »
Bob Crosby,

One can easily visualize this guy leading some sweaty, swarthy, immigrant southern laborers in the construction of his design of some particularly fussy earthworks on a hazy, humid, hedonistic south Georgia day.


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 08:40:16 PM »
Another illustration of "how the more things change, the more they remain the same."

Many of the same issues debated here currently (the impact of changes in equipment, the preservation of classic courses, etc.) were discussed and debated almost a hundred years ago.   

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 10:00:20 PM »
Another illustration of "how the more things change, the more they remain the same."

Many of the same issues debated here currently (the impact of changes in equipment, the preservation of classic courses, etc.) were discussed and debated almost a hundred years ago.   

David,

Isn't that the truth?

Hard as it might be to admit it, reading Harry Colt discussing this issue parallels interviews in modern times that could easily have come from Tom Fazio and/or Rees Jones.

One could still wish, however, that they did quite as well as Mr. Colt in their work.  ;)

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 10:59:10 PM »
Is that Bambi aka Lance Alworth?

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 11:15:11 PM »
Is that Bambi aka Lance Alworth?

Mike,

Yes, it's the most unlikely unbelievable football player ever...a 6'0 180 pounds soaking wet receiver who for years held the record for most consecutive games with a reception (96), and STILL holds the record for the most 200+ yards receiving and STILL holds the record as the only receiver to average more than 100 yards receiving per game for three consecutive seasons.

He is the man who made pass receiving into transcendent magic, and whose grace, flair, skill, levity, and elegance largely elevated the old American Football League into something not only deserving of respect, but also of awe.

Joe Namath later took much of what Alworth originally offered and capitalized on it in the rich-publicity of the NYC market, but "Bambi" Alworth was the first to combine Hollywood, High Art, and Canton, and forty years later is probably still the best and most unlikely magic man to ever don shoulder pads..

Betcha didn't expect to find George Crump, Harry Colt, and Lance Alworth in the same thread, much less Oscar Wilde. 

I'm trying to raise my GCA game in 2009.  Enough fr*ggin around   ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVUDFAtTrTE&feature=related
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 11:30:55 PM by MikeCirba »

Bill_McBride

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Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 11:19:55 PM »
It's interesting that Herbert Fowler is described as an "amateur" golf architect.  By that time he had designed some good golf courses including, I think, Beau Desert north of Birmingham (England).  I'm sure he didn't come to America to design golf courses for free.  I wonder why he's called an "amateur."

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 11:40:58 PM »
Mike,the routes and balance should be required study.Was there ever another who made more effortless over the shoulder catches? Pure art.Thanks for the link.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 11:56:33 PM »
Mike,the routes and balance should be required study.Was there ever another who made more effortless over the shoulder catches? Pure art.Thanks for the link.

Mike,

This unlikely man was the prototype of the modern football receiver, as well as being the Da Vinci of the old AFL.

Glad that you enjoyed the link! 


Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2009, 04:18:19 AM »




I've always thought that we know less about Fowler than his contempories.  He did write for the Magazine's but he didn't produce a book on Architecture.  As Mark Rowlinson says he should best be celebrated for not having a style but producing different courses wherever he went, truly responding to the terrian.  I can't copy articles at the moment but there's a fascinating two part article in Golf Illustrated on the best links in GB.  From memory he slams the Old Course and puts Westward HO (where he'd just been working) at No 1.

What plans could they have been studying?  It is unlikely now that we'll ever find out.


The Pine Valley question is all the more interesting because Fowler was a Carter's man through and through. Carter's suppplied PV with their grass seed.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Rich Goodale

Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 04:19:56 AM »
To me the da Vinci of the AFL was Charlie Tolar, the 5' 7" 225 lb. fullback for the Houston Oilers, aka "The Human Bowling Ball."  Or was he the Lucca Brazzi?  Can't remember....

Sean_A

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Re: Is Golf Too Hard? - The state of GCA in 1914
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 04:42:55 AM »




I've always thought that we know less about Fowler than his contempories.  He did write for the Magazine's but he didn't produce a book on Architecture.  As Mark Rowlinson says he should best be celebrated for not having a style but producing different courses wherever he went, truly responding to the terrian.  I can't copy articles at the moment but there's a fascinating two part article in Golf Illustrated on the best links in GB.  From memory he slams the Old Course and puts Westward HO (where he'd just been working) at No 1.

What plans could they have been studying?  It is unlikely now that we'll ever find out.


The Pine Valley question is all the more interesting because Fowler was a Carter's man through and through. Carter's suppplied PV with their grass seed.

I too feel I know very little about Fowler except to agree with Mark.  When one looks at his high profile courses: The Berkshire(s), Saunton, Walton Heath(s), Westward Ho!, Eastward Ho (only from pix I have seen) & Beau Desert, they are all so differentiated from each other.  The two courses of this lot which really intrigue me are The Berkshires.  These really seem as though they could belong to the Colt stable.  Perhaps Tom Simpson had more to do with finishing these courses off than Fowler did.  Both have a more modern look which is not present on the other courses.  On the other hand, Simpson is given the credit for Cruden Bay, ok, its a given that much of the present course was nicked from previous incarnations, but I still don't "see" much Simpson at Cruden Bay.

I find it very curious that the writer of the article felt Fowler was a penal architect.  Mind you, if we are talking about 1914, Fowler wouldn't have had all that much in the ground and perhaps Walton Heath(s) were seen as Fowler's "style".

Ciao

« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 04:53:00 AM by Sean Arble »
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