Rounds per year at the Old Course?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Does anyone know how many rounds per year are played at the Old Course?

[Jim_Kennedy]

They say over 40k per year, but no specific number on their site.

[Tyler Kearns]

Jeff,

Just finished reading "The 7th @ St. Andrews" and it states that the Links Trust had set an upper limit for rounds over the Old Course at 45,000, however, by 1990, rounds topped 49,000.  To remedy over-use, the Links Trust extended the interval between tee times from 8 to 10 minutes that year.

TK 

[Shane Wright]

Jeff,

Just finished reading "The 7th @ St. Andrews" and it states that the Links Trust had set an upper limit for rounds over the Old Course at 45,000, however, by 1990, rounds topped 49,000.  To remedy over-use, the Links Trust extended the interval between tee times from 8 to 10 minutes that year.

TK 

Tyler - How was the book?  Worth the read? 

[Bill_McBride]

It is very cool to be in St Andrews in the summer and see groups still teeing off at 7 p.m.

[Tyler Kearns]

Jeff,

Just finished reading "The 7th @ St. Andrews" and it states that the Links Trust had set an upper limit for rounds over the Old Course at 45,000, however, by 1990, rounds topped 49,000.  To remedy over-use, the Links Trust extended the interval between tee times from 8 to 10 minutes that year.

TK 

Tyler - How was the book?  Worth the read? 

Shane,

I enjoyed the book, a nice change of pace.  It was neat to get an inside glimpse at how Kidd runs his business, and how they operate on a job site. Scott Gummer did an excellent job on the writing, a good blend of the day-to-day decisions in building a golf course, stories of the principle characters, the Links Trust and other DMK projects.

Yes, worth the read, but do note, I am a junkie, and will read ANYTHING related to golf course architecture.

TK

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jeff

How many rounds?

Easy answer – twice as many as most courses in North America if you are still taken 5-6 hours per round over there.

Melvyn

PS Do you think we will tell you, all you want to know is will there be a big discount this year -  answer no - you have your discount in the weak pound. Anyway thought this was a GCA site not Bankers News.

[Bill_McBride]

Jeff

How many rounds?

Easy answer – twice as many as most courses in North America if you are still taken 5-6 hours per round over there.

Melvyn

PS Do you think we will tell you, all you want to know is will there be a big discount this year -  answer no - you have your discount in the weak pound. Anyway thought this was a GCA site not Bankers News.

Rounds on the Old Course, in my experience, average a bit over 4 hrs.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

You may be right if you have to follow four guys from North America. Each hole seems to take a longer if we can't play through.

So I will revise my figure to 50 - 100% or 1.5 to twice as fast as overthere.

Melvyn  Super

[Bill_McBride]

Bill

You may be right if you have to follow four guys from North America. Each hole seems to take a longer if we can't play through.

So I will revise my figure to 50 - 100% or 1.5 to twice as fast as overthere.

Melvyn  Super

I suspect the guys ahead of in kilts and snacking on a haggis were Scots.

[Tom_Doak]

When I lived over there in 1982, it was more like 60,000 rounds.  They let people who couldn't get a time via the ballot start before the official tee times started at 6:30 or 7:00 ... often there were ten groups out before the first official group.

[Brian Phillips]

Showing your age there Tom...   

[Sean Walsh]

The surpising thing I learned in my year there was that The Eden actually surpasses The Old in terms of rounds per year.  4 hours is a slow round over there, I'd guess it gets at least 75% local play.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom D.,

I was actually suspecting more like 60,000 than 40,000 when I posted this. (It's relative to an article I'm writing, by the way.)

Thanks,

[Gary Slatter]

Tom D.,

I was actually suspecting more like 60,000 than 40,000 when I posted this. (It's relative to an article I'm writing, by the way.)

Thanks,

I'll email you after I go through my copies of the ballot! played yesterday, 10:10 start, finshed at 4:00 pm (at least that's what I told my wife).  Golf took the first 3.4 hours.

[David Sneddon]

Does anyone know how many rounds per year are played at the Old Course?

Hi Jeff!!

Our  group will be responsible for 8 rounds May 11th,....if that helps

[Jeff_Mingay]

Good for you, David! Sounds like something to look forward to!

What's your email address these days? I have three on file I think. Don't know which to use?

jeff@mingaygolf.com

[Mark_Rowlinson]

In the early 80s (maybe even when Tom was there) my brother-in-law and I went round as a two ball in an average of two hours. Our best was 1 hr 45 min. This was around Easter time when the golfing tourist season hadn't started. With the next tee right on the edge of the previous green there was no unnecessary walking, you never had to look for a ball, he knew the course intimately, we judged distance by eye and there was nothing to hold us up.

[Rich Goodale]

Jeff

I was given the exact numbers when I wrote my book on the Old Course for the Links Trust in 2006.  I can't find it in my notes, but it was something in the range of 40,000 rounds/year.  This also correlates with the theoretical capacity of the course given daylight hours and speed of play throughout the year.  If I were you, however, and you really need a solid number, just call the links trust.  They'll tell you.

Rich

[Jeff_Mingay]

Thanks Rich.

I don't need a really solid number, just something to give perspective. Having read 40,000 elsewhere, I trust your number.

Thanks again,

[Melvyn Morrow]

"Rounds per year at the Old Course?"

Is this really an important question or not regards GCA – for me the answer is very simple – a great big YES.  It reflects upon everything related to golf, not just at St Andrews but world wide, to the point that 5-6 hours rounds are regarded in certain part of the world as normal. When calculating revenue from non members this time scale can put a big dent into projected revenue for the year not to mention profitability of the course in question.

So how many rounds are need and is this a new problem. Again, the answer is simple – No it’s not new, it has always been a problem from the time golf became a popular game with the general public. It’s thanks to monitoring the rounds that has given us The New Course, The Jubilee, Eden etc (and most regrettable IMHO the Castle Course).

Congestion is the real name of the game. Yes, we can blame just about anything we want, but I believe it stems from the Professionals. If they are not required to show CONSIDERATION for their fellow players (or the spectators both on course & at home watching on TV), then the public see it as acceptable and start to mimic this behaviour. Of course it is not all at the feet of the Pros but they set the standard today and are meant to be Ambassadors for our Game to the rest of the world, alas many fail dismally.

I am not going to signal anyone item out, but I believe that carts have an impact but for me the greatest inconvenience is the necessity by what has become the majority of Golfers today to worship at the alter of Distance/Yardage information. Most know of my sincerely held opinion so will not go into any detail on that, well not on this thread. However before I leave this I would like to ask a question – you are driving your car at say 40mph and will be asked to break hard to a stop – how many here can say to within a yard or two where they will come to a dead stop. I would guess not many, so if you can’t judge distance when lives are potentially at risk why keep up the pretence of need yardage input.

Getting back to the point of how many rounds one can expect out of a course in a good day is important, if we are looking at potential revenue, but as I said this is not a new problem and as an example I attach an article about congestion at St Andrews at the turn of the 20th Century when there were three course servicing the town. Numbers have been noted over all three courses which might be an interest to some of you.



Good question Jeff as I believe it is just the tip of the proverbial Iceberg.

Melvyn 

[John Burzynski]

Melvyn:

You know that I love walking/carrying golf and hate slow play.

I do have one question basically concerning St. Andrews and maybe a couple other courses (Pebble Beach?).  Is the length of a round at these special courses due to the fact that maybe a golfer is experiencing that 'once in a lifetime' round on a classic great top 5 course?  Could the desire to soak the experience in and wish it never ended slow down play somewhat at TOC, Pebble and other venues?  I know you can't speak to Pebble Beach, but maybe to TOC.

[Melvyn Morrow]

John

St Andrews was my second home, it is the home of my father and his before him going back to the 15/16 Century, so the town and the old courses are my best friends. I enjoy returning. Tracing my own footsteps from the days of my youth – I see TOC as a reflection of Old Tom, his love for the course and the game, so there is no fear, no concerns and I can soak up the experience by just standing outside Old Tom’s shop watching the golfers on the 18th.

Like Old Tom, I could also sit inside the New Club and watch the golfing world play through the old Spyglass with my glass of ‘Black Strap’ or to be honest I would prefer a cool pint of beer.

The experience, even for me starts as I see St Andrews in the distance as I drive out of Guardbridge on the A91. I get the urge to speed up but yet I want to savour the view just that little bit longer. It’s the same with my golf, but I am old and wiser now that the real enjoyment is to play an other round asap.

So in answer to your question a good 36 holes is what the Doctor ordered followed by a few drinks, a meals and a few more drinks with some good company is all the experience I need or want. As for taking my time well I do that in the bar afterwards as let’s not forget tomorrow is another 36 hole day just waiting to offer you some great woes or highs as well. In short, pace yourself but not to slowly as it will soon be your round (in the bar) and I do hate waiting for others if alcohol is involved.

The only sobering fact is before I leave I spend nearly as much time (slight exaggeration) going from cemetery to cemetery laying flowers and planting new shrubs on family graves. I always leave St Andrews with sadness in my heart.

Melvyn   

[Michael Ryan]

Does anyone know if the Old Course stops tee times as it gets later in the day when 18 holes rounds are not possible?  Are folks allowed to tee off with sufficient light for only an hour or so?  Just wondering if they try and protect the front nine from receiving more wear and tear than the back from such situations. 

[Tim_Cronin]

Melvyn,
   That was a lovely post. It sums up everything good about the game and the place of your town in it.