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Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...4 days to GO!!
« Reply #125 on: February 12, 2009, 06:12:24 PM »
In sketchup there's a tool called the text tool that's in the shape of a box with "ABC" in it and an arrow pointing down below it. It's next to the protractor tool.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...Today's the Day!!
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2009, 04:11:39 PM »
Alrighty Me 'ardies! Today is the day!

Let me know if you're having any last-minute difficulties, the judges are looking forward to seeing the entries.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...Today's the Day!!
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2009, 08:09:21 PM »
Hey, don't all send them at once!  ;)

Oh, and if any of the judges are reading this, you'll be getting a few more soon. I've just got to anonymous-ize them.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...Today's the Day!!
« Reply #128 on: February 16, 2009, 12:22:51 AM »
Okay boys, take until tomorrow. After that I'm coming around with a ruler to whack the backs of your hands!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...Today's the Day!!
« Reply #129 on: February 16, 2009, 12:57:33 AM »
 8) Thanks for organizing this Charlie, great fun..
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 07:01:02 AM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest...Today's the Day!!
« Reply #130 on: February 18, 2009, 11:39:00 PM »
Alrighty, it seems all the entries are in. We'll be looking at about March 2nd as a preliminary timeframe for judging to wrap-up. It may go longer. At that point we'll release the scores and commence with the discussion phase of the contest. I'll reveal the identity of the real course as well. I think a bit of a show and tell should be done by the contestants with the judges and others weighing in on the result. I have no formal plans for it other than that it will happen on a new thread, not this one. Therefore, any suggestions are welcomed.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Ian_L

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #131 on: February 18, 2009, 11:47:55 PM »
A thought: each contestant that wins an award could post a "photo tour" of the hole or feature (e.g. best par-3).    The overall winner might post a hole-by-hole tour of the entire course, if he so chooses.

Also, I'd be interested to see other contestants' overhead views, with a couple of their favorite (and maybe least favorite) holes, as well as their own thoughts on the challenges of designing the course.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #132 on: February 18, 2009, 11:53:21 PM »
Ian,

If the members of this website think they are going to get away without me boring them to death with a complete tour of my routing come hell or high water, then they have another think coming.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #133 on: February 18, 2009, 11:55:55 PM »
Good ideas Ian, I'll definitely post each contestant's overhead view on that thread. I do like the photo tour idea. I'd like for even the non-winners to post some images/explanation of their own favorite holes as well. Though in any event the winners definitely should.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #134 on: February 18, 2009, 11:57:59 PM »
Garland, I like your moxie!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Ian_L

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2009, 12:03:17 AM »
Ian,

If the members of this website think they are going to get away without me boring them to death with a complete tour of my routing come hell or high water, then they have another think coming.


Hey, I'll read it!

TX Golf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2009, 12:12:46 AM »
Charlie,

Just curious but how many people participated in the contest??

I would love to do it at another time but just didn't have the time with my current schedule!! Thanks for organizing this... I can't wait to see the results!!

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #137 on: February 19, 2009, 12:34:25 AM »
Robert, we ended up with 8 total entries. I think its a terrific turnout considering the amount of work that is involved. I know of a couple of folks not in the total who did some serious work on this as well. (I'd still be willing to accept their entries if they'd like to submit them in the next couple of days.)

I can't wait to post the results and see the ensuing discussion.

All the best,

Charlie
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

TX Golf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #138 on: February 19, 2009, 12:38:42 AM »
Thats awesome Charlie...

I was extremely excited to participate until I realized how much work it was actually going to be... Considering the fact that I am a full time student with two majors to take care of I figured I would be best of to postpone my involvement!!

However... I graduate in May, so if this ever happens again I will be excited to participate.

Hopefully we have some new found MacKenzies at GCA!!! Thanks again for the hard work. I think we are all excited to see what turns out.

Robert

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #139 on: February 19, 2009, 04:12:42 PM »
Garland, I like your moxie!

Charlie,

Moxie is a soft drink from Massachusetts. People from Massachusetts have Moxie.

I'm from Montana. People from Montana have ...
http://www.outwestnewspaper.com/balls.html

Well, you get the idea.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #140 on: February 19, 2009, 04:35:35 PM »
That's what I dig about you Montana guys, always keepin' it classy!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #141 on: February 19, 2009, 05:11:51 PM »
I just can't get it done anytime soon.

I took the version you draped for me, Charlie, and after making a couple of tweaks it just went bonkers on me and had all these lines running all over the place.

Then I've been in and out of town.  I just haven't had a chance to fight my computer more.

Sorry.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #142 on: February 19, 2009, 06:02:02 PM »
Michael, you don't have to apologize, I just didn't want to see the work you had already done go to waste. Sorry about the difficulties you've had. We'll get 'em next time.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #143 on: February 19, 2009, 06:48:15 PM »
Charlie,
with deepest respect, I have to say that I think that 8 replies from a potential database of 1500 is somewhat pathetic.

That being said, I also have to say that the return in no way reflects upon you or your idea. Rather, it appears to me to rather sadly reflect upon the 1450 or so architect wannabes of this site who have no idea what the ACTUAL design and construction of a golf course might really entail.

Good try, but always destined to be a noble failure.

cheers,
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #144 on: February 19, 2009, 07:25:17 PM »
Marty,

I think you know how JakaB would explain the phenomenon you just highlighted.

I'm sure you have returned to the amateur ranks by now. Is your entry in the mix?

Have a good'un

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #145 on: February 19, 2009, 07:54:38 PM »
Marty, all I can say is; would that my entire life be considered a noble failure, for as Epicurus said:

"The wise person's misfortune is better than the fool's prosperity."
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 08:17:41 PM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #146 on: February 19, 2009, 09:08:54 PM »
Charlie,
with deepest respect, I have to say that I think that 8 replies from a potential database of 1500 is somewhat pathetic.

That being said, I also have to say that the return in no way reflects upon you or your idea. Rather, it appears to me to rather sadly reflect upon the 1450 or so architect wannabes of this site who have no idea what the ACTUAL design and construction of a golf course might really entail.

Good try, but always destined to be a noble failure.

cheers,
FBD.

Oh c'mon Marty, why do you "real" designers always get yer panties in a bunch over this kinda thing???

Give me RJ Daley, Slag and Joe Hancock and we'll build you the 2nd coming of Sand Hills!
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #147 on: February 19, 2009, 10:25:02 PM »
I wanted to continue in my last post, but my daughter decided that tonight was the night to declare a referendum on the institution of night-night time.

Marty, please bear in mind that I have taken no offense whatsoever at your post. In fact I'm glad you brought it up, it needed to be said.

Anyhow, I must say that I knew ahead of time that getting more participants than judges was an unlikely scenario, but that doesn't bother me so much. For contestants it was a lot of work, with a guarantee of criticism, and with not much in the way of payoff. The flip side is that 8 people studied a topo map, learned a new software program, examined the options, and laid out the best 18 holes they possibly could even with so many reasons not to bother. I say bravo to them!

And Bravo to the Judges! They are having to do nearly as much as the entrants with even less to gain, all in the hopes of helping some dogged souls learn as much as possible from this experience.

By the way, their names are:

Yannick Pilon
Ian Andrew
Rich Goodale
Jeff Brauer
Mike Nuzzo
Tom Naccarato
Dave Schmidt
Paul Cowley
Ron Farris

Take a bow Boys!



Now my hopes/goals for the contest are many even if my expectations are few. I hope everyone involved had/has fun and found it worthwhile. I hope that at least a few of the folks on the board who didn't participate find some utility in what they will see when the results get posted. I hope we've laid the groundwork and infrastructure for future contests, even if they change in form. I hope that the contest helps underscore the difficulty of what the designer has to do. And yes, I hope that when everyone sees what a good time we had with this, that next time we'll have even more participants. (Don't worry, it will be a while before I broach the subject, and hey, maybe someone else will have a better way)

All the best,

Charlie

P.S. Garland, how would JK explain the phenomenon Marty described?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 10:28:22 PM by Charlie Goerges »
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tom Huckaby

Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #148 on: February 20, 2009, 10:12:39 AM »
Charlie:

As you know, I warned you when you started this that I really doubted you'd get more entries than judges.  I'm not all that happy I turned out to be correct... but it is fun to say told ya so.  ;D  Hopefully my warnings helped you keep your expectations realistic - if you didn't have such going in - which sounds like you did anyway.

It's just the way of this forum.  I wouldn't say the lack of participation in something like this is pathetic; far from it.  Charlie picked a GREAT means to do this in terms of what the entries will show - it's gonna be really cool to see them - but heck, in the past when people were just asked to draw a picture with a pencil, the participation was not all that much greater than this... and you have to admit, learning new software is a level to take this to that is quite a lot more than pencil drawings.

But I also believe there's another thing going on here... I ought to just speak for myself, but my hope is others share this feeling...

Can I discuss what makes golf courses fun for me to play?  Hell yes.  As a golfer I know what I like and I like what I know.

But does that mean that I have any inkling that I could do the job?  Hell no.  As my friend Marty says, I have "no idea what the ACTUAL design and construction of a golf course might really entail."  I truly don't.  I know this, acknowledge it.

Thus I neither critique architecture, nor try to create it.

Kudoes to those who do try; if you find it fun, go for it.  But it's rather harsh, my dear friend Marty, to call the rest of us pathetic.  Perhaps you might better tip your caps to us who acknowledge that your profession is damn hard and thus leave it to the professionals?

TH



Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Armchair Arch Contest... Judging begins
« Reply #149 on: February 20, 2009, 10:29:57 AM »
Tom, your warning definitely helped me keep my expectations in check. Though I frankly didn't think we'd have more judges than participants at first because I didn't think we'd get so many judges. But considering the amount of work involved, it was a great turnout. If anyone would like to volunteer how much time they put into their entries, I'd be curious to hear it.

I think I know why the pencil to paper approach doesn't get a huge response. Most of us have little to no idea what we're seeing when we look at a topographical map. But if we can look at a 3D rendering of the same area, we see hills, valleys, lakes etc. That's why we like photos, and hopefully we will have found the use of sketchup worthwhile in this contest.

Pathetic may have been a bit harsh, but I suspect it was a bit of hyperbole.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius