Dormant Bermuda putting surface - Southern Dunes GC

[Tom Yost]

Yesterday, I met up with Minnesota winter refugee Jason Topp for a round at the Southern Dunes (aka Royal Dunes) Golf Club in Maricopa, Arizona. 

We noted with great interest, that while the tees and fairways sported the typical winter ryegrass overseed, the greens were being maintained as a dormant bermuda surface.  This is quite unusual from my experience.

Cut low and rolled flat, the greens were quite fast but very smooth and true, providing an exceptional putting surface.  It appears the greens are being watered as some moisture is being retained, but not soggy by any means, I would describe them as firm, yet receptive.

We asked the starter about it and he said the members like them that way and had high praise for the superintendent.  I'm wondering however, if the feasibility of this practice may change as the increased traffic from the now public access may cause too much wear and tear.

Here is a photo of the 9th green, with my ball on the wrong side of a deep swale (yes, I 3-putted!)  In the background, the clubhouse and bright green ryegrass in contrast.

Very fun and interesting course by the way.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom, that's what we play on all winter here on the Florida Panhandle - if it's a private club and the members understand that dormant Bermuda is a great surface.  We dyed our greens this winter for the first time, so we can fast, firm, AND green.

[Anthony Gray]

  I would assume in Arizona they are not dormant for long. How many months?

   Anthony

[Anthony_Nysse]

If the greens are big enough, they shouldnt have much problem running 250+ rounds a week.  Dormant putting surfaces are great-somethings too fast, cause theirs no way to control or slow down the speeds. In South Carolina and here in Texas, the dormant season for greens is lNovember-April, and thee greens are usually green and coming out of dormancy by April.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Doug Wright]

From other threads it looks like Southern Dunes flipped this around for this season--dormant fairways/overseeded greens.

[Mark Smolens]

I had a chance to play Avila CC in Tampa during Outback Bowl Week  (oh for a two point conversion).  The greens sure looked like dormant bermuda, but they rolled as well as any course I've ever played in Florida. . .

[Tom Yost]

From other threads it looks like Southern Dunes flipped this around for this season--dormant fairways/overseeded greens.

My understanding is the only overseed this year is to the teeboxes.

[Kyle Harris]

I had a chance to play Avila CC in Tampa during Outback Bowl Week  (oh for a two point conversion).  The greens sure looked like dormant bermuda, but they rolled as well as any course I've ever played in Florida. . .

They use Tifeagle at Avila - which is a dwarf bermuda.

[Tom Yost]

Someone told me they are playing on dormant Bermuda greens at Papago.  It seems I read an article that described the strain they are using - "Mini Verde," which is supposed to be more cold tolerant and have the shortest dormancy.

[Ben Kodadek]

I had a chance to play Avila CC in Tampa during Outback Bowl Week  (oh for a two point conversion).  The greens sure looked like dormant bermuda, but they rolled as well as any course I've ever played in Florida. . .

They use Tifeagle at Avila - which is a dwarf bermuda.

My home course, Feather Sound CC is about 25 minutes south of Avila. The combination of the Tifeagle and dormant conditions make for the best surface one can find in the south.  That, in addition to the cold snap we've had for the past 30 days have created the absolutely perfect greens.  Firm and fast, with literally no grain to speak of. If that were only the case in August!!!

[Anthony_Nysse]

I had a chance to play Avila CC in Tampa during Outback Bowl Week  (oh for a two point conversion).  The greens sure looked like dormant bermuda, but they rolled as well as any course I've ever played in Florida. . .

They use Tifeagle at Avila - which is a dwarf bermuda.

that doesn't mean that they weren't seeded. When I played there 4 years ago, the entire course was seeded, BUT alot of private clubs in the area have gotten away from that. Dormant or near dormant Bermuda is as good of a surface as you can imagine and in most cases, as fast as you want.

[Mark Luckhardt]

I know some people who fashion dormant bermudagrass and then paint it green in South Carolina.
They say they have to be careful not to have the height of cut too low going in to dormancy, or the geens become lightning fast, and unplayable.
It is probably a most underated putting surface,especially from a playability standpoint.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I know some people who fashion dormant bermudagrass and then paint it green in South Carolina.
They say they have to be careful not to have the height of cut too low going in to dormancy, or the geens become lightning fast, and unplayable.
It is probably a most underated putting surface,especially from a playability standpoint.

You'd be shocked as to what superintendent's heights of cuts are on dormant greens-circ 1985!

[Mark Luckhardt]

How low did they go, Tony?

[Anthony_Nysse]

I know some guys who mow at .135-.165 on greens where that normal summer height will be .100-.11. It protects the green from wear and tear and provides a very fast surface

[Shannon Wheeler]

Tony,

How many times did you mow this week?

Shannon Wheeler
The Club at Admiral's Cove

[Anthony_Nysse]

Shannon,
  Check your PM

[Steve Lang]

 
the WCC has seeded tees only in the wintertime for many years now.. the bermuda fairways and greens (and golfers) don't suffer those twice a year transition periods, which were often lousy.. and some winters.. unklike this one, winter never comes and they've stayed green!

today it was mid 60's F, sunny skies, greyish brown greens running very fast and pretty true.. pretty much beats most bent grass greens played in summer up north..

i believe its when the bermuda roots stay above 65 F that things get green and start growing

[Anthony_Nysse]

the WCC has seeded tees only in the wintertime for many years now.. the bermuda fairways and greens (and golfers) don't suffer those twice a year transition periods, which were often lousy.. and some winters.. unklike this one, winter never comes and they've stayed green!

today it was mid 60's F, sunny skies, greyish brown greens running very fast and pretty true.. pretty much beats most bent grass greens played in summer up north..

i believe its when the bermuda roots stay above 65 F that things get green and start growing

Steve,
   what is WCC? I've always gone off soil temps-once soil temps are above 60 degree, the grass will start to green up.

[Steve Lang]

  The Woodlands CC, north side of Houston ... which is now under Sequoia Golf..

presently: Tournament Course (old TPC), Palmer Course (27 holes), and Player with access at Canongate Oaks and Panther Trail

used to be: Oaks Course, Palmer Course (27 holes), and Player with access at TPC and Panther Trail resort courses

 

[Anthony_Nysse]

The Woodlands CC, north side of Houston ... which is now under Sequoia Golf..

presently: Tournament Course (old TPC), Palmer Course (27 holes), and Player with access at Canongate Oaks and Panther Trail

used to be: Oaks Course, Palmer Course (27 holes), and Player with access at TPC and Panther Trail resort courses

 

Got it. One of my good friends who is also a member here, Carter Hindes, used to be the Assistant on the Palmer before being named Superintendent at Golfcrest CC

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