New Colt book - photo of Colt, Alison, Morrison et al. No Mackenzie

[Neil_Crafter]

If anyone has a copy of the new Colt book and a scanner, could they scan the group photo that contains Colt and Mackenzie and other golf architect luminaries (according to a review of the book I read in The British Golf Collectors Society magazine "Through the Green")?

I am hopeful this group photo may be from a meeting of the fledgling International Society of Golf Course Architects that Mackenzie was prominent in establishing, around 1929. I started a thread on this a while back.

So a scan with a caption (and hopefully a list of the people in the photo) would be great. Thanks in advance

[James Boon]

Neil,

Just checked through the book and there is a photo captioned:

"Harry Colt and partners join a gathering of architects. Colt is in the centre of the front row with Morrison and Alison to his left (Morrison holding hat and paper, Alison holding paper)"

I can't scan it but noticed it is credited to oldgolfimages.com so had a quick look and found this:
http://www.molespace.co.uk/oldgolfimages2/picpage.php?picid=3099
Its the same image as from the book (sorry its so small and low res). Though it mentions MacKenzie on the website, there is no mention in the Colt book, and I can't tell if one of the other architects is MacKenzie, though from my limited knowledge none of them look to be?

Hope that helps?

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

Neil

Its a difficult photo to scan because it runs over two pages and is too tall for my scanner.  But here goes with one chap missing on the right. 

Colt is middle front with Morrison to his left and Alison further left holding the paper.


I would like to know the names of the those in the pic.  Anybody have clues?

Ciao

[Jeff_Mingay]

Sean,

That's a cool photo. Might be the most "real" image I've seen of Colt.

Is Alison to Colt's immediate left?

I'd also like to know who the others are. I suspect there could be some surprises.

Thanks... and, Happy New Year!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sean's directions are as you look at the photo.

So standing to Colts left, and looking out is, Morrison and then to his left, Alison.

Struggle to place anyone else, but the guy in the boater looks familiar.


All the others look thin and physical workers?  I must say the caption puzzled me.

Yes it's an excelelnt image of Colt, and he appears to be wearing the same club tie as Morrison?  What is in Colts left hand?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tony,

So, you're saying the short guy in the floppy-looking hat, at far right in the front row, is Alison?

I suspect Colt has a cigarette or cigar in his left hand.

Where was this photo taken? And why? Any idea?

[Sean_A]

Tony,

So, you're saying the short guy in the floppy-looking hat, at far right in the front row, is Alison?

I suspect Colt has a cigarette or cigar in his left hand.

Where was this photo taken? And why? Any idea?

Sorry, I did give the wrong directions, so Alison is the guy in the floppy hat holding the paper.  The directions are now fixed.

I don't know what is in Colt's hand, but it is highly unlikely to be a cigarette or cigar, nobody holds em' like that!

I don't know when or where the pic is taken, but the caption states it is for an archies meeting. 

Tony

Several other chaps are wearing the same tie.  Could this be an archies society tie?

Ciao

[David Stamm]

Could that be Fowler in the second row, second from the left?

[Sean_A]

Could that be Fowler in the second row, second from the left?

David

That would be my guess, but I am not sure.  The guy in the back with a bushy tash looks like Fowler as well, but perhaps he is a bit too heavy looking as Fowler was a lean chap.

Ciao

[Jeff_Mingay]

Thanks Sean.

I think this is the first time I've had a good sense of what Alison looked like. Interesting.

As for Colt, imagine the cigarette (or cigar) not lit yet, man! People hold cigarette's like that before lighting!

[Ian Andrew]

I am hopeful this group photo may be from a meeting of the fledgling International Society of Golf Course Architects that Mackenzie was prominent in establishing, around 1929. I started a thread on this a while back.

Wouldn't Mackenzie have been front and centre on the photo?

[James Boon]

I am hopeful this group photo may be from a meeting of the fledgling International Society of Golf Course Architects that Mackenzie was prominent in establishing, around 1929. I started a thread on this a while back.

Wouldn't Mackenzie have been front and centre on the photo?

Ian, though the website from which this photo comes from mentions Mackenzie, the Colt book within which the photo is printed doesn't mention him. As Mackenzie is mentioned in the previous chapter of the book and also elsewhere in it, if he was in this photo I think they would have mentioned it?
Cheers and happy new year!
James

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Should I be getting a copy of this book? How good is it?

[Sean_A]

Should I be getting a copy of this book? How good is it?

Mark

I think the book is decent.  I particularly like the approach of discussing the individual courses all differently - there is no set formula.  Plus, the author looks at the courses regionally so there are some surprises.  That said, there are a handful of courses included that can't really be called Colt courses.  Many of the courses discussed are not in great detail.  Maps are lacking.  All in all, its not as good as Klein's/Doak's/Bahto's books - there is certainly room for improvement. 

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Should I be getting a copy of this book? How good is it?

Mark

I think the book is decent.  I particularly like the approach of discussing the individual courses all differently - there is no set formula.  Plus, the author looks at the courses regionally so there are some surprises.  That said, there are a handful of courses included that can't really be called Colt courses.  Many of the courses discussed are not in great detail.  Maps are lacking.  All in all, its not as good as Klein's/Doak's/Bahto's books - there is certainly room for improvement. 

Ciao

Sean what with your book and course reviews being so concise and accurate I conclude you have missed your vocation.

Happy New Year everyone.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks for the comments guys and Sean for scanning and posting the photo. Like James, I checked out the Old Golf Images website but the photo was tiny but the caption mentioned Mackenzie was in the photo. This was the reason why I thought it was of the ISGCA meeting. But I don't think it is.

My thoughts on the photo:

Certainly it is Colt in the middle and John Morrison on his immediate left. I'm not convinced that is Alison at the side of Morrison in what has been described as a floppy hat. Photographs of Alison are few and far between but the ones I've seen of him show him to be tall and lanky. I've scanned the ones I've been able to find and posted these for comparison and I'll be interested in what others think.

As for the rest, its not really clear just who these people are to me. Certainly no immediately recognisable faces like Tom Simpson and definitely no Mackenzie. No Campbell, no Hutchinson that I can see. I don't think it is a group of architects, perhaps Colt with his construction team?

Anyway, below are my assembled Alison photos, the first 4 are from the Oxford and Cambridge GS tour of the US in 1903:







And finally a cropped image of the man supposedly Alison from the group photo. Does not look at all like him, carries his head quite differently and he is fairly short, shorter than Colt although standing on the same step.

[Sean_A]

Neil

I would bet a tenner its Alison.  The nose, ears and eyes are match and the photo you have with the hunched shoulders is Alison a bit older.  Plus, and only folks with the book would know this, the photo has been cropped.  Alison is standing a step below Morrison and Colt.

Ciao
 

[Tom_Doak]

Bonus points for the first person to correctly identify the man lurking in the far top of the photo.  (Was it Tom Paul?)  (Just kidding.)

Neil, I don't have any idea how tall C.H. Alison was, but he's probably always going to look tall standing next to two Japanese associates.

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom
In the photo of the O&C team in 1903 Alison is at least as tall as the other tallest fellow, and well above JL Low, who could also be rather short. Its hard to say, I always got the impression he was tall and lanky. But comparing to Japanese, you are correct, perhaps no real test of tallness!

As for the man at top right, well I think I will miss out on the bonus points as I haven't a clue. Probably will kick myself when you reveal his name............

Sean
Now that I look at it the man supposedly Alison does appear to be standing one step down from the others. I'm still not convinced though, but of course I could be wrong!

As for a date - anyone care to hazard a guess? Morrison did not start working with Colt until around 1923 according to Hawtree, so it would be after this, so I'm guessing around 1925.

[Sean_A]

Tom
In the photo of the O&C team in 1903 Alison is at least as tall as the other tallest fellow, and well above JL Low, who could also be rather short. Its hard to say, I always got the impression he was tall and lanky. But comparing to Japanese, you are correct, perhaps no real test of tallness!

As for the man at top right, well I think I will miss out on the bonus points as I haven't a clue. Probably will kick myself when you reveal his name............

Sean
Now that I look at it the man supposedly Alison does appear to be standing one step down from the others. I'm still not convinced though, but of course I could be wrong!

As for a date - anyone care to hazard a guess? Morrison did not start working with Colt until around 1923 according to Hawtree, so it would be after this, so I'm guessing around 1925.

Hell Neil, I don't know if that is Alison or not, but its fun to have a punt once in a spell.  As my dad used to say, you can't get anywhere until you put your stake in the ground. 

I would really like to know who the other chaps in the photo are why/where the photo was taken.

Ciao

[Neil_Crafter]

Sean
Wise man your Dad.

I don't reckon it is Alison, but I've been wrong before - just ask my wife!

I wonder if Alison was in the photograph whether he would be standing next to Colt, rather than Morrison, pecking order and all that stuff.

I too would like to know where and when and I emailed Dale Concannon (who runs the Old Golf Images website) yesterday with those questions - I'll let you know if I get a reply.

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom D
can you name that fellow in the back right for us?
Neil

[BCrosby]

Alison was tall. See Neil's picture of the O-C team on the boat. He is the mustached team member on the back row, second from the left. He does not have a name caption. He had a reputation as a long driver and played very well in the '03 O-C matches in the US.

In the Colt photo, Alison is probably the fellow with the mustache a row behind and to Colt's right.

I don't know who the more athletic guy is on the front row to Colt's left. But it is not Alison.

Bob 

[BCrosby]

It's also a bit odd that Morrison is the only one who has removed his hat for the photographer.

Bob

[Neil_Crafter]

I heard back today from Dale Concannon who owns this photograph - he says he purchased it amongst a group of other items of Colt memorabilia he acquired and a number of the photos, like this one, were not annotated. Not sure how or why he then assumes the photo is a gathering of golf course architects, I'll have to ask him that one. He doesn't know who's who in the photograph either.

Bob
I'm glad you agree that the person at front right doesn't look like Alison, I thought I was going crazy! I have read a description of Alison by someone that he was around 6'3" tall. Certainly the man in the next row with one hand on the shoulder of the fellow could be Alison, but he still doesn't really look the man I see in the known photos of Alison. Its all a bit of a mystery to me.

I wish Tom D would come back and give us his identification of the fellow at back right. Tom? ....Tom?