[Garland Bayley]

Every once in a while someone gets on here and asks what are the new design concepts exclusive to the US, or post WW II, or of the modern (with definition of modern) age. The thread originator is usually a newbie, and all the old hands on the site shout him/her down with "There are no new design concepts in golf!"

Well, I may not be the greenest greenhorn on this site, but I certainly am not as far travelled and experienced as many, so I have an excuse if it turns out the same answer applies.

Are Inverted Bunkers as, for example, seen at Las Palomas Links #6 an original design concept?

[Mike Sweeney]

Not exactly sure what you are looking for but there are a bunch of inverted bunkers at National Golf Links.

[Jim Sweeney]

They musty have been at one time...

I assume you mean convex bunkers, or areas of sand raised above ground level. I've seen them in lots of places.

I believe (someone can look it up) that the definition of "bunker" in The rules of Golf says sometihing to the effect that on is an area, often a hollow, from which turf has been removed and replaced with sand or the like. The words "often a hollow," if I am accurate, would indicate that bunkers need not be concave. Think of a small sand hill after all shrubs and grass has been removed.

[Steve Lang]

  I guess there are no new design concepts in golf..

[Garland Bayley]

Not exactly sure what you are looking for but there are a bunch of inverted bunkers at National Golf Links.

Are you saying they are so insignificant that CB MacDonald would not even mention them in Scotland's Gift?

[Garland Bayley]

They musty have been at one time...

I assume you mean convex bunkers, or areas of sand raised above ground level. I've seen them in lots of places.

I believe (someone can look it up) that the definition of "bunker" in The rules of Golf says sometihing to the effect that on is an area, often a hollow, from which turf has been removed and replaced with sand or the like. The words "often a hollow," if I am accurate, would indicate that bunkers need not be concave. Think of a small sand hill after all shrubs and grass has been removed.

Clearly lots of golf courses have sandy mounds. Do they have hills of loose sand rising out of the fairway and guarding greens? If so, I am curious as to where besides Las Palomas they would be found.

[Mike Sweeney]

Clearly lots of golf courses have sandy mounds. Do they have hills of loose sand rising out of the fairway and guarding greens? If so, I am curious as to where besides Las Palomas they would be found.

17 approach to green at National



There are a bunch on the 9th fairway too off the top of my head. Needless to say there are others here that can answer in specifics.

[Tom_Doak]

In the old days that last photo at National would've been all sandy mounds ... but it was just too hard to maintain and keep the sand from blowing around.  The sandy mounds are more open on the interior holes.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Garden City features a few inverted bunkers as well.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Garland

Here are two threads on the topic:
"A Startling Convex Bunker"
"Convex Bunkers"

Mark

[Adam Clayman]

Are Dunes a new concept?

Wild Horse #5 is such a convex bunker with fingers of sand and turf.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Adam

No.  Mackenzie did them more than 100 years ago.

Mark

[TEPaul]

Garland Bayley:

Your question about convex sand mounds (bunkers) leads me to mention an interesting story regarding The Creek Club (Macdonald/Raynor 1922-24) on Long Island.

Not that long ago an article was found by H.J. Whigam in an old Town and Country magazine (of which Whigam was the Editor) that reviewed The Creek Club. In that article Whigam explained that in Raynor's opinion the 10th hole of The Creek was a better version of NGLA's Leven hole (#17).

We could just not understand the connection or similarity of The Creek's #10 hole to NGLA's #17 and that went on for over a year. And then one day completely out of the blue and unsolicited an old on-ground photograph was mailed to The Creek by an old man from Syracuse N.Y. who had apparently had this photo for decades.

That photo showed a massive convex sand mound (perhaps of 10,000 sf) that seemed to have been 9-10 ft high right at the left front of the 10th green.

Well, that certainly explained the similarity and connection of The Creek's 10th to NGLA's 17th and why Whigam and apparently Raynor referred to it (The Creek's #10) as a version of the Leven design.

Of course the next question became what happened to that massive convex sand mound on The Creek's #10 and why and when it was removed and of course the additional question of whether or not it could be restored to that hole.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks Guys,

My education continues.

Thanks for the threads Mark.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Not exactly sure what you are looking for but there are a bunch of inverted bunkers at National Golf Links.

Mike,

They probably got that idea from GCGC where CBM et. al. were members 

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