[Kalen Braley]

Huck and Tom,

I appreciate the conceptual idea on wedge distance, but there is still a disconnect in my mind

Whether you chunk a 50 yarder and have 25 yards left, or chunk a 100 yarder and have 50 yards left I'm not seeing how one is a big advantage over the other...because they both likely result in another wedge shot to be played.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:

Don't get too caught up in that.  Our point is simply that we suck from both distances, more or less.  Might as well get closer.  Once we get to chipping range the miss is darn likely to at least be on the green.

To put it numerically for you, each chunk is not exactly 50% distance loss.  From 50 yards, it's more likely to be quite less than that, meaning the ball is darn near always on the green or close enough.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen:

Don't get too caught up in that.  Our point is simply that we suck from both distances, more or less.  Might as well get closer.  Once we get to chipping range the miss is darn likely to at least be on the green.

To put it numerically for you, each chunk is not exactly 50% distance loss.  From 50 yards, it's more likely to be quite less than that, meaning the ball is darn near always on the green or close enough.

TH

In the case of ANGC #13, a chunk shot from 50 yards is likely ending up in the creek. Whereas a chunker from 100 yards will stay out...so there is that angle to think about that too. 

I know this can be a bit too much of quibbling, but I think a good case can also be made that 100 yard fat shots can often be better off than 40 yarders because they stay short of most greenside bunkers.

Either way, I think its best that all of our chips remain crisp and clean.. 

[Tom Huckaby]

I think you have Augusta 13 wrong.  From 100, most likely our chunk ends up in the creek, and we drop at 50.  From 50, our worst shot gets on the green.  I know it's tough to understand how us hacks play, but this is really how it works.

And you are quibbling.  See the question is where we TRY to get a shot to.  Do we actively lay up to 100?

There's no reason for guys like us to do that absent the things already mentioned.  That's the issue here.

[Jim_Kennedy]

To put it numerically for you, each chunk is not exactly 50% distance loss.  From 50 yards, it's more likely to be quite less than that, meaning the ball is darn near always on the green or close enough. -Huck (and I presume, Will)

So who taught you two how to play, Zeno?   

[Tom Huckaby]

To put it numerically for you, each chunk is not exactly 50% distance loss.  From 50 yards, it's more likely to be quite less than that, meaning the ball is darn near always on the green or close enough. -Huck (and I presume, Will)

So who taught you two how to play, Zeno?   

Jim - sadly no one really taught me.  And I also have no clue who Zeno is.  I just tried to put this in Kalen's terms.  He likes numbers more than words.

 

[Jim_Kennedy]

TH,
Zeno never played, but he did understand your problem. 

 The essence of his (Zeno's) argument against motion was that a moving body can never come to the end of a line, as it must first cover half the line, then half the remainder, and so on ad infinitum.

[Tom Huckaby]

TH,
Zeno never played, but he did understand your problem. 

 The essence of his (Zeno's) argument against motion was that a moving body can never come to the end of a line, as it must first cover half the line, then half the remainder, and so on ad infinitum.

AHA!  Very good.  He must be Kalen's patron saint.

 

[Kalen Braley]

TH,
Zeno never played, but he did understand your problem. 

 The essence of his (Zeno's) argument against motion was that a moving body can never come to the end of a line, as it must first cover half the line, then half the remainder, and so on ad infinitum.

Jim,

Thats funny cause I was thinking about that exact concept as I was writing my post, even though I didn't know it by its formal name...

[Carl Nichols]

I have much more confidence in my full SW swing than my 40-50 yard swing, so I'll lay back to a full swing yardage if the 40-50 yard shot is more than moderately difficult.  [E.g., I'll swing away if the 40-50 yard shot doesn't have to fly trouble and there's a relatively forgiving target.]  At the same time, I'd much rather be chipping than either of those shots, and I'm longer than most guys (no double entendre intended), so I'll hit driver anytime it can get me close to the green . . . just not when it will probably leave me 40-50 yards.

So to answer the original question, I'll lay back to a full wedge rather than play the 40-50 yard shot if there's a hazard close to the front of the green and/or if the target from there is really small.  Probably lots of other scenarios I'm not thinking of right now.

Have I mentioned that I suck between 20 and 80 yards out?

[Charlie Goerges]

If I lay up to 100 rather than 50 it's because I'm not feeling confident with whatever club I need to hit to get to 50. If it's a par 5, I probably feel more comfortable hitting 6 iron than 3 iron or 3 wood. But all things being equal, closer is better.

Plus, half-shots can be cheated quite easily if you're not playing well otherwise. I can have a bad case of the lefts with my full swing, but on a half-wedge, I can more easily swing dead-hands, or I can put the ball back in my stance, or several other things. But if I'm swinging really badly, there is not much I can do to fix it.

[JMEvensky]

To put it numerically for you, each chunk is not exactly 50% distance loss.  From 50 yards, it's more likely to be quite less than that, meaning the ball is darn near always on the green or close enough. -Huck (and I presume, Will)

So who taught you two how to play, Zeno?   

Jim Kennedy,anyone who can work Zeno's Paradox into a golf discussion is my kind of guy.

It's very useful in winning Men's Grill bets.The next time someone says that a putt is so fast that it's impossible to stop it short of the hole,you can always "prove" that,in point of fact,it's actually impossible to get the putt to the hole.Ad infinitum.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Yeah, but JM, how are you ever going to get there in the first place? 

 

[JMEvensky]

Yeah, but JM, how are you ever going to get there in the first place? 

 

     TOUCHE'

[Pat Burke]

Each player at a high level will to play to his or her strengths.  Tiger did not have the 40 shot as a rookie and now is phenomenal with it.  Pelz did a study that determined it was better to be closer to the green for approach shots than laying back to a "full" shot.  Not sure of all of Pelz's stuff, but his studies are pretty good.  One thing left out on this study was.  How much easier is it to hit the shot to leave a full wedge, than to rip it by the green?  In many cases, the target tightens around the green which adds stress to that shot AND the next.  Many times, the decision of leaving the short "tweener" is defined by the protection in the lay up area as much, (or more so at times) than the green

[Will MacEwen]

I am a younger guy (27) and come from the grip-it-and-rip-it golf school most people my age and younger have been taught in. Patience and course management have only become a part of my game after I stopped playing competitively, unfortunately. I have always had the luxury of big, forgiving drivers, and all sorts of wedge options.

I will gladly take 40 yards out over 100 yards any day of the week, even if there is water short or some sort of issue like the lie. (Of course, there are exceptions. If the landing area 40 yards short is filled with contours or very tight, you don't take the risk. But I am thinking strictly about fairway)

Why? I don't like my iron game at all, and a whole lot more can go wrong from 100 yards away than 40 yards away. Now, I'll admit, I don't hit a lot of skinny or chili-dipped wedges to put doubt in my mind either. But I am just as likely to chunk a wedge from 100 yards as I am a half-wedge from 50. And if I do the former, I have to hit the latter again.

There are certainly areas where having a full swing makes it a bit easier, but I'll get it as close as possible and figure it out when I get there.

I am generally the same, with the exception of front pins.  If the pin is at the front, I will lay back to 90-100 yards for a smooth SW.  If it is middle or back, I will get as close as possible and most likely land something on the front of the green to release back.

I know I get more 5 foot and shorter putts from the close option. 

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