News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Chris Haspell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Castle Stuart goes live
« on: December 23, 2008, 07:07:01 AM »
The new website is live for all you golf fanatics give it a look

www.castlestuartgolf.com

All the best for the holidays and the coming year to everyone on GCA



Chris

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 07:14:13 AM »
Wow.  WOW!

Look at this nugget:

Course Goals:
The course should elicit anticipation and hopefulness in players of all skill levels; let it test one’s perceptual ability, judgment, decision-making, shotmaking, and emotional poise; let it not be difficult for the sake of being difficult, rather let it be interesting and engaging.

Provide wide latitude and choice (wide fairways and play areas) but never let this lead to indifference (to line of play or length of shot); let asymmetry rule; limit choice in some instances, but let the stern tests be ones to embrace not fear.

As far as possible, keep the issues simple yet profound enough to engage and occupy the mind; let the issues be visually dominating.

On the whole, let the player see the result of a good play; let him see his shot carry a hazard, his drive take a favorable contour, or his approach nestle close to a pin; punctuate with blind issues, let mystery have a place.

Bring the Moray Firth into the shotmaking perspective as much as possible; let it be a real shotmaking issue or an intriguing aspect of the line-of-play visual context; as far as possible, focus visual awareness through the course to vistas of the firth and prominent landmarks beyond; minimise inland visual aspects; let the sea dominate the visual experience.

Use the topography to its fullest; let the play twist and turn, flowing over, around, and through an array of interesting landforms; let each hole offer its own visual identity.

Emphasise 'dynamic holes', ones likely to yield a broad versus narrow distribution of scores; let short par fives, short par fours, and short par threes be a major course aspect.

Let holes be readable and emphasise unusual ones that demand decisions on the tee, holes with no single defined path to the green; let shorter hitters find a favorable approach angle not available to the longer player who might be attracted to another route, and on some par fives let the go-for-the-green-in-two driving line result in more difficulty in laying up compared with the driving line if playing for the green in three from the outset.

Let greens be intuitively readable and putts makeable if close to intended hole positions; let putts from long distances be challenging yet engaging because of contours and slopes that on occasion partition the greens; let putting be fun and not diabolically difficult.

Create a palpably visual and distinctive personality for the course, through its contours, bunkers, landscape mosaic, and optical compositions.

Let there be variety and seduction to the rhythm and flow of holes; let there be respites; let the course and its implicit test reveal a true champion’s full set of skills.
 

Greens & Surrounds


The greens and their immediate surrounds should stand out as a unique aspect of the course; let them test one’s perceptual ability, judgment, decision-making, and emotional poise; let them be more than bland targets; let them require consideration and be engaging for approach shotmaking and greenside recoveries; let them matter from the tee onwards.

Green contours and especially those at the edges should reflect the topography of surrounding landforms and be readable or at least intuited from considerable distance.

Intuitive perception from distance is important; green contours and those at the edges have meaning to the links-style forward release of the ball and therefore to angles of approach which result from lines of play chosen at the tee.

Let driving lines matter; some should be rewarded with angles into green contours that are favourable (e.g., that can gather a releasing ball toward a desirable position or deflect a release from an undesirable one) or easy to gauge (e.g., that allow a straight-and-true release rather than a deflecting one); conversely, others should result in angles that turn green contours from supportive or manageable to troublesome or confounding.

Severe contours on occasion should divide large greens into separate ‘smaller greens’; these contours may be ‘hazard-like’ where considered aim means playing away from them; leaving such a contour in one’s putting line may require ‘recovery-like’ putting skill.

Let the player come to realise that some contours within the green and near its edges are to be used while others are to be avoided; contours should always require consideration; greenside bunkers and abrupt falloffs (a severe form of contour) should complement contours and their impact on approach angles; but let contours be the primary defense of most greens.

Emotionally ‘settling’ and ‘unsettling’ visual perspectives should also be coordinated with angles of play, i.e., a bold line of play off a tee should sometimes be rewarded with a ‘settling’ approach perspective while a safer play should contend with an ‘unsettling’ perspective.

Greens should in general be asymmetrical, with recovery issues differing substantively when recovering from left versus right or long versus short; minimize indifference to missing left, right, long, or short.
Greens and their immediate surrounds should be generous enough to be manageable targets under windy conditions, and should provide for running shots under the wind, especially from the preferred angle of approach.

Approach issues to greens should be simple to grasp and visually dominating enough to engage the mind; insofar as possible, greens should be visible from tees, allowing one’s intuition to grasp the issues of the hole quickly and easily.

May the heart, soul and intellect of Castle Stuart’s greens and surrounds be absorbing and a source of engaging consideration to all golfers.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 10:24:33 AM »
Don't you just love the way so many of the holes have greensites with sea horizons at the back of the putting surface, regardless of whether they are actually next to the estuary or not... in fact, there's so many of them, it could actually be overdone...

Looks fantastic though - unlike any other course in Scotland.

Chris, Anyone,

Will that second course ever get built?... What is the land like that has been set aside?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 10:26:28 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Scott Macpherson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 10:56:09 AM »
Castle Stuart will be the most complete course built in many, many years. It will challenge the very best and excite all. It will stimulate the visual senses of all those who visit her and be judged to be the fairest test in a fickle game. This course is a MUST play for all true golfers to Scotland.

These comments are unsolicited and I have no connection to the project.

Scott

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 10:56:21 AM »
Thanks for posting the link Chris.

That is the coolest looking golf course I have ever seen (in pictures).


Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 11:00:30 AM »
The third hole looks terrifying! 300 yards long to a mini-plateau green that must be 50 yards long and literally falls in to the water at the back and side...

Paul Nash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 11:06:37 AM »
This looks stunning. Have a read of the reviews on the top 100 website - these combined with what I have just seen on the website make this look a sure contender to be high up in the next rankings - £150/ round or £225 a day is a bit steep this far north but it looks like they are going to attract visitors if the hype carries on

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/productdetails.asp?id=1842

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2008, 11:23:23 AM »
I think it's pretty pretentious that the course tour has Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" playing in the background.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 11:35:05 AM »
Phil - isnt's the use of Copeland anti-pretentious"?  I think the message they're trying to convey is that this is a great course that's accessable to the "Common Man".

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 11:40:01 AM »
I toured the entire course this past May. It is as impressive in person as it looks in the pictures.

I did take a brief look at a tentative routing of the 2nd course. The property for the 2nd course is further inland on much flatter, farmland ground.

My sense is the Parsinen group will be taking their time developing the enitre project. My guess is it could be another 3-5 or more years before the hotel, guest lodges, spa and 2nd course all get built. 

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 11:43:15 AM »
Phil - isnt's the use of Copeland anti-pretentious"?  I think the message they're trying to convey is that this is a great course that's accessable to the "Common Man".

Interesting point.  Hadn't considered that angle.

What do you think the greens fees will be for the common man?

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 09:02:09 AM »
From the pictures, it seems that this course could be better than the Castle Course by Kidd.

Which one will stand the test of time?
Will the similar name lead to confusion among tourist golfers?

If you could only play one, which Castle course would you choose?


Anthony Gray

Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 10:49:46 AM »


  The person that oversaw the construction of Kingsbarns and stayed on as super is doing the same at this course. What a wonderful trip up the coast.
St Andrews...Carnoustie....Cruden Bay... Castle Stuart...Royal Dornach. Looks like 2010 will be a very good year.

   Anthony


Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 12:44:44 PM »
Looks and sounds like a great course, nice to see lower greenfees for local and Scottish golfers but a pricing point in the far north of £150 a round for a brand new course is surely cloud cuckoo land in this economic climate. Nairn is £82 and Dornoch a similar figure.

TOC is £130 next year...say no more!
Cave Nil Vino

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2008, 01:54:15 AM »
The green complexes are really interesting. Always tough to tell from pictures but it looks amazing. Great work by Hanse and Parsinen. From the pics, Castle Stuart will kick the Castle Course's ass.

150 pounds for a round though? Yuck.

I do not recall seeing such a mix of bunker styles before - almost as if they took some of Kidd's at BD and mixed them with Doak's from PD. ie) some obviously man-made with steep faces and a "pot" look, while others more integrated with the natural setting.

There also appear to be a few "mohawks" here and there . . .


Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 12:45:38 AM »
Obviously this course is situate adjacent to water, but does it play as a true links course?  Does it have the requisite sandy soil and the like?

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 01:13:53 AM »
Brent -

I expect the course will play plenty links-ish. Where the soil was not sandy enough, sand was brought in to rectify the situation.

DT

Anthony Gray

Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 09:56:03 AM »



  What other course do the greens remind you of? Chambers Bay?

  Anthony


Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 09:12:43 PM »
Anybody on this site who has played ( there seems to have been some preview rounds ) or walked the course able to comment.  It would be interesting to hear their opinions.

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2008, 03:37:20 AM »
This website is a wonderful glimpse into this amazing golf course.

But it is simply just a glimpse.

There is so much attention to detail gone into this project that it is almost a shame that the golfers will never fully appreciate the process behind the creation. I cant personally recall one feature/landform/area that was not fully scrutinised and thought out completely. There is no "eye candy" it is all for a reason or function. "Near enough" was not good enough and it shows through in the final product.

Chris

The pictures show the grow-in to have gone extremely well and the approach to be producing the desired playing surfaces. You and the team deserve a huge pat on the back.

Mark, Paul, Gil, Jim, Chris, Stuart and the rest of the team, Very well done.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 10:18:03 AM »
Shame the sales team didn't do such a good job. I just hope people give it a very wide berth until the price comes down to a more sensible level.
Cave Nil Vino

Gary Gruber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2008, 05:52:05 AM »
Mark,

Having been fortunate enough to see Castle Stuart develop from the beginning, I can assure you it will be worth the money.

Castle Stuart will offer an unforgettable experience from the moment you enter the gates till the moment you leave.

I for one look forward to that experience next July.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2008, 06:04:11 AM »
Mark,

Having been fortunate enough to see Castle Stuart develop from the beginning, I can assure you it will be worth the money.

Castle Stuart will offer an unforgettable experience from the moment you enter the gates till the moment you leave.

I for one look forward to that experience next July.
Gary,

There's a current thread arguing that Royal Dornoch may be the best course in the world.  Castle Stuart will cost nearly twice as much to play as Dornoch.  Is it twice as good?  £150 a round in Northern Scotland is an absurd price and I hope that people refuse to pay it, I know I will.  The course looks fantastic but the price is madness.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Gary Gruber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2008, 06:21:10 AM »
I have read the R.D.G.C thread and as someone who lives in Dornoch, been a member for a dozen years and played it many hundreds of times, i agree with much of that threads content, however it really depends on your idea of the golfing experience.

I know if I owned a golf course I would rather have 6000 rounds at £150 than 12k @£75

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Castle Stuart goes live
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2008, 06:43:28 AM »
I have read the R.D.G.C thread and as someone who lives in Dornoch, been a member for a dozen years and played it many hundreds of times, i agree with much of that threads content, however it really depends on your idea of the golfing experience.

I know if I owned a golf course I would rather have 6000 rounds at £150 than 12k @£75
But do you think they'll get 6000 rounds at £150?  In that part of Scotland?  Given the nearby alternatives?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.