News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Kyle Harris

3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« on: December 21, 2008, 01:44:37 PM »
The next part of this series is an attempt to highlight some of the features on Bethpage Red that make the design compelling and interesting.

Oft criticized by some on here as lacking compelling angles of play or lines of charm, I feel the Red Course is unfairly lumped into a "Little Sister" category that stands next to the "Big, bad and increasingly ridiculous" Black Course. I hope this thread highlights that some of the "Lines of Charm" do indeed exist on the Red Course, and that they can be more compelling than the Black's on a day-to-day basis.

1: Well places hazards can make the tees longer than normally played very compelling.

For example, the series of holes beginning with the 8th hole, and ending with the 15th features fairway hazards the trickle just into the comfort zone around the 250 yard mark from the back tees.

Here is the 9th, with a triangle showing the region roughly 250 yards from the back tee. Note how the fairway bunkers clutter the inside of the dogleg. Not readily apparent is that the approach such a distance off the tee leaves is usually the difference between a fairway wood and longer iron for most players - so the decision is further compounded by the difference in clubs on the long approach. As one moves forward on the tee blocks, the bunkers become less intrusive and more punitive.



Here is the view from the tee:


2: Angles on short Par 4s make for interesting decisions

The 6th hole is prime example of this. The line directly from the back of the tee box to the middle of the green is 295 yards, and the line down the fairway represents a 200 yard shot. Notice how the dogleg allows for longer shots to increasingly flirt with the trees and broken ground on the left side of the fairway with those attempting a shot outside dogleg gives a much better look at the green with an albeit longer approach.



The view from the tee, line to green is at the left edge of the photo:



The approach shot :



3: Topo is still king

Aerial of the Par 5 5th:


And a series of photos showing the topo and approaches:



« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 01:47:44 PM by Kyle Harris »

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 02:53:52 PM »
You've come up with a great series format, Kyle, and I enjoy the way you're using the aerials to illustrate your points. Bethpage Red is both literally and figuratively underrated--an excellent design that would no doubt be discussed a lot more were it not in the shadow of the Black.

"Topo is king"--I think the Red smacks the golfer with that point on the first tee box. Tremendous opening hole.

One of the things your photo of the 6th hints at is how the ground feeds the ball down into the trees. I've hit many tee shots on that hole that I thought were perfect, only to find my approach screened out by branches in one way or another. It is so hard to get a clean look at that green unless you really play it out to the right. The Red has a bunch of holes like this (2 and 3 come to mind as well) that look like cake but wind up stealing bogeys--they make the Red the kind of course where you can come off the 18th feeling like you played pretty well, but when you add up the card you're five shots worse than you thought.

Kyle Harris

Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 03:01:24 PM »
Tom,

I'm sure you can imagine my amazement when a playing companion found a direct line at the flag from the front of the 6th tee with his range finder and said it was a 278 carry. This really made me wonder if clearing out some of the younger underbrush to open up a view of the green will bring temptation into the equation. As the line illustrates, a 200 yard shot doesn't quite make the corner, but the view opens up the more to the right one goes. 220 (A 5wood/2iron for me) off the the tee opens up the shot, but starts to bring "through the fairway" into play as well. As with the holes I illustrated at Paxon Hollow, the angle AND distance off the tee is paramount to a successful tee shot on this hole.

I wonder if having a clear view of the green through the trees would tempt more plays of driver over the corner into the approach.

I should also note the green is sloped in such a manner that the approach from the left side is directly into the slope, with approach from the right hitting the slope at an angle such that ball is fed left.

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 03:04:09 PM »
Has any restoration work been done on the Red Course at Bethpage? 

That first hole is a killer as a par 4.

Kyle Harris

Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 03:05:54 PM »
Has any restoration work been done on the Red Course at Bethpage? 

That first hole is a killer as a par 4.

Adam,

I believe that all the bunkers have been redone. If you search back to October, I posted a series of photo threads that shows some of the work.

The first hole is a strategic marvel, as well, with a green that seems so benign from the fairway.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 03:33:21 PM »



 


I've never seen any old aerials of the Red. I would assume that there weren't any trees between all these holes and no rough? When I see this, it looks like those fw bunkers were all shared and served both adjacent holes, no?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Kyle Harris

Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 06:54:53 PM »
David,

My memory of the specifics isn't so great, but there is an aerial of the facility from 1938 displayed in the clubhouse and also in the back of the Tillinghast compilation, "Reminiscences of the Links."

Kyle Harris

Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 07:59:45 PM »
Courtesy of Joe Bausch (Red Course in the upper left):


Sam Maryland

Re: 3 Things I Learned From: Bethpage Red New
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2008, 11:29:04 PM »
what an amazing aerial that show a completely different look in terms of trees (or lack thereof) from holes 8-15...just amazing.  I'm disappointed in myself for not having noticed this on any of my 125+ trips through the clubhouse.

as for number 6, interesting point you raise.  having played the hole about 64 times I've firmly concluded that hitting driver is foolish, no matter how good you are feeling.  the shot is demanding but if you hit a hard rescue club or a solid 3-wood to the right edge of the fairway, you'll be fine.  cut off too much with a 3-wood and you are blocked by the trees.  9-iron or wedge is what you want into this green, and even then it's a tough shot.  half shots always seem to be troublesome.  miss the driver right, toast, lucky to find it.   don't make the carry, might get lucky, might have lost ball.  hit it perfect it still prob doesn't bounce forward onto the green

while I can only remember being in it once I htink the new bunker on the left side of the green adds to the hole, and that might actually be a lucky place to end up if one was hitting driver.  driver that lands in front prob doesn't bounce up.  driver that lands on the green goes over.

regardless of the club in hand, I find #6 green the hardest green to hit on the Red -- it's an exceptional short par 4.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 10:23:57 AM by Sam Maryland »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back